Interview with Troy Grant

[dealwithit]

Listen here to hear directly from the IRL chairman. Interesting to hear him talk about a framework for the northern hemisphere, particularly England, France, Wales and Ireland. 

[Damien]

Gaslighting again. He's been repeating the same since he took over and trying to take credit for achieving nothing. All soundbites and zero substance. 

How does it capitalise, especially on the incredible rise of Samoa and Tonga? Yes the incredible rise that started around a decade ago before he started that we have paid lip service to.

International calendar mention? Tick. The one that has already changed.

Plan games in advance? Tick. That still didn't mean we knew if the Pacifc Championships were actually happening until 2 months before. It also still didn't stop the Aussies changing their minds about the Ashes because they now can't be arsed hosting. We still don't know the dates yet for that either. RLWC2026, what's the schedule for that again?

RLWC2021 cup atmosphere like the Olympics and a wow moment? Nothing new, we had a sellout and record international crowd back in 2013. He seems oblivious to the fact we had international RL before. And done better too.

Singing, atmosphere from Tonga? The same one we've had since 2017 that we largely failed to capitalise on. Was last week really more amazing than that RLWC semi final? Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't but the difference is neglible if so.

Bit of a road map for Scotland, Ireland etc in the northern hemisphere to follow? Is there? Where do heritage teams at u16s level fall into that?

RLPA for the international game? The same RLPA that gets funded by the NRL and has agreed with action after action to limit the international game.

No questions around RLWC2021, mid season internationals, no WCC next year etc. Strange that.

Grant seems to have been on a different planet where international RL was never played before he took over. He really offers nothing and is nothing more than a NRL stooge.

Edited November 19, 2024 by Damien

[langpark]

27 minutes ago, Damien said:

Gaslighting again. He's been repeating the same since he took over and trying to take credit for achieving nothing. All soundbites and zero substance. 

Listen again. One of the first things he did was give the credit to the NRL for organising and funding the whole thing. He then said he has been working to bridge relations between IRL and NRL/SL and their member clubs, but hardly seemed like he was trying to "take credit". 

[gingerjon]

One of the things that stuck with me when I was young was an interview with a photographer (I think Lord Snowdon) who responded to a question about how anyone good take a great photo by saying, yes, anyone can take a great photo once. Being a great photographer is knowing how you did it and replicating that, or amending it, next time.

The NRL are keen to tell us they've done a bang up job bringing on Tonga and Samoa, like there was some kind of process that they followed and it worked.

Okay. If you knew what you were doing, what does the plan look like for the next countries on your list?

[Damien]

19 minutes ago, langpark said:

Listen again. One of the first things he did was give the credit to the NRL for organising and funding the whole thing. He then said he has been working to bridge relations between IRL and NRL/SL and their member clubs, but hardly seemed like he was trying to "take credit". 

What whole thing? I'm not even on about organising and funding the Pacific Championships if that's what you are talking about. For something he had absolutely nothing to do with he does talk about it a lot though. What achievements of his is he actually talking abut then that he is directly responsible for?

Bridge relations = Do whatever the NRL says when it comes to the international game

Sorry I also did him an injustice too. He normally brings up Excel spreadsheets in these kinds of interviews. Mustn't forget that mornings work sorting those out. The same thing his predecessors also said they sorted out too.

[Damien]

19 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

One of the things that stuck with me when I was young was an interview with a photographer (I think Lord Snowdon) who responded to a question about how anyone good take a great photo by saying, yes, anyone can take a great photo once. Being a great photographer is knowing how you did it and replicating that, or amending it, next time.

The NRL are keen to tell us they've done a bang up job bringing on Tonga and Samoa, like there was some kind of process that they followed and it worked.

Okay. If you knew what you were doing, what does the plan look like for the next countries on your list?

I mean all we need to do is copy them with Ireland and Scotland innit and pick a *few team full of heritage players and play games. That's what some people like to make out on here anyway

*Edited for accuracy

Edited November 19, 2024 by Damien

[langpark]

12 minutes ago, Damien said:

What whole thing? I'm not even on about organising and funding the Pacific Championships if that's what you are talking about. For something he had absolutely nothing to do with he does talk about it a lot though. 

Well, the question was about that, so what is he meant to do? Not answer it?

NRL is a giant, and IRL is a mouse, financially. So the IRL has no choice but to work with them rather than fight them. 

I agree, one successful Pacific Championships is not the be all and end all, but it is a great start compared to what we have seen in previous years. 

Now that the top tier nations have regular games, hopefully the next step is to get some similar structure in place for the tier 2 and 3 nations. 

[Sports Prophet]

There is absolutely no evidence for your continued statement that “the NRL can’t be bothered to host the Ashes next year” @Damien.

Likewise, just because the Pacific Championship was not confirmed and promoted until after SOO, doesn’t mean it wasn’t going ahead. I had every confidence it would go ahead. It did go ahead and it went ahead with pretty much full crowds at each venue, so it would seem they timed their promotion just right, rather than promoting it further in advance.

You speak as if nothing has happened since 2017. Tonga played two tests in 2018 and featured in the Oceanic Cup in 2019 against NZ and Aus. 2020 and 2021, Covid affected. 2022 RLWC and in 2023 they toured England and then returned to the Pacific competition in 2024. Sounds like there has been consistent opportunity since 2017 to me and I don’t know what sellout new dawn you are referring to back in 2013.

From my position, the strength of the international game has grown considerably in the Pacific since 2017, whilst going backwards in the NH. Yes, some of this may have been due to good fortune, but you make your own luck.

[Damien]

19 minutes ago, langpark said:

Well, the question was about that, so what is he meant to do? Not answer it?

NRL is a giant, and IRL is a mouse, financially. So the IRL has no choice but to work with them rather than fight them. 

I agree, one successful Pacific Championships is not the be all and end all, but it is a great start compared to what we have seen in previous years. 

Now that the top tier nations have regular games, hopefully the next step is to get some similar structure in place for the tier 2 and 3 nations. 

Make your mind up. One minute you are jumping in saying listen again about 1 particular thing which I never really talked about in a long post. The next you're saying this because I replied to you.

Yes we get it, you take umbrage because Grant is a NRL stooge who does exactly what the NRL says and wants so you like him. That doesn't change the fact he's been like a broken record for 4 years and achieve diddly squat. We have heard everything he says and does before from his predecessors too.

 

[The Future is League]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

I mean all we need to do is copy them with Ireland and Scotland innit and pick a *few team full of heritage players and play games. That's what some people like to make out on here anyway

*Edited for accuracy

We all know that there is no long term future for countries that rely on 90% on heritage players.

How good would Samoa or Tonga be if they had to rely on mostly players born in their countries and products of them countries junior systems?

[Damien]

3 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

There is absolutely no evidence for your continued statement that “the NRL can’t be bothered to host the Ashes next year” @Damien.

Likewise, just because the Pacific Championship was not confirmed and promoted until after SOO, doesn’t mean it wasn’t going ahead. I had every confidence it would go ahead. It did go ahead and it went ahead with pretty much full crowds at each venue, so it would seem they timed their promotion just right, rather than promoting it further in advance.

You speak as if nothing has happened since 2017. Tonga played two tests in 2018 and featured in the Oceanic Cup in 2019 against NZ and Aus. 2020 and 2021, Covid affected. 2022 RLWC and in 2023 they toured England and then returned to the Pacific competition in 2024. Sounds like there has been consistent opportunity since 2017 to me and I don’t know what sellout new dawn you are referring to back in 2013.

From my position, the strength of the international game has grown considerably in the Pacific since 2017, whilst going backwards in the NH. Yes, some of this may have been due to good fortune, but you make your own luck.

Yes there is, you just choose to ignore it. The Ashes was scheduled to be in Australia as per the fabled international calendar. You know the one we've never had before, can't change and is so good for the game. We've known for well over a year that the next World Cup was going to be in the Southern hemisphere and you'd have had to be deluded not to know that it would have to be in Australia as no one else is capable of hosting. The fact it was going to be in the Southern hemisphere was even announced at the same time as it was announced that England would tour Australia in 2025. Therefore England were always scheduled to travel to the Southern hemisphere 2 years in a row, that had been the case for near 18 months and was what everyone decided upon, for better or worse.

Despite Australia being officially confirmed as hosts 4 months ago the NRL only approached the RFL 2 weeks ago to change that. This was after the RFL long talking of going to Australia, until very recently. Shaun Wane was still at it very recently and many players ad fans were looking forward to it. The RFL even consulted with fans on the tour and even whether we should have the GB name for it. Its quite obvious that fans were already planning trips etc.

You can choose to believe what you want, as can everyone else. The whole lets pretend that Australia had a change of heart and thought lets do this for the good of others doesn't really wash based on their track record of sabotage and riding roughshod over everybody.

"I don’t know what sellout new dawn you are referring to back in 2013" - I never mentioned a new dawn. Grant talked about the RLWC2021 cup atmosphere being like the Olympics and a wow moment. I was simply stating that was nothing new and we had a sellout and record international crowd back in 2013 for a tournament in the same country. Grant seems oblivious to the fact we had international RL before and it was often bigger and better.

Playing games will see the international game grow. No shock there. That is literally all we are doing and should have been done a long time ago.

[DoubleD]

2 hours ago, Damien said:

Gaslighting again. He's been repeating the same since he took over and trying to take credit for achieving nothing. All soundbites and zero substance. 

How does it capitalise, especially on the incredible rise of Samoa and Tonga? Yes the incredible rise that started around a decade ago before he started that we have paid lip service to.

International calendar mention? Tick. The one that has already changed.

Plan games in advance? Tick. That still didn't mean we knew if the Pacifc Championships were actually happening until 2 months before. It also still didn't stop the Aussies changing their minds about the Ashes because they now can't be arsed hosting. We still don't know the dates yet for that either. RLWC2026, what's the schedule for that again?

RLWC2021 cup atmosphere like the Olympics and a wow moment? Nothing new, we had a sellout and record international crowd back in 2013. He seems oblivious to the fact we had international RL before. And done better too.

Singing, atmosphere from Tonga? The same one we've had since 2017 that we largely failed to capitalise on. Was last week really more amazing than that RLWC semi final? Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't but the difference is neglible if so.

Bit of a road map for Scotland, Ireland etc in the northern hemisphere to follow? Is there? Where do heritage teams at u16s level fall into that?

RLPA for the international game? The same RLPA that gets funded by the NRL and has agreed with action after action to limit the international game.

No questions around RLWC2021, mid season internationals, no WCC next year etc. Strange that.

Grant seems to have been on a different planet where international RL was never played before he took over. He really offers nothing and is nothing more than a NRL stooge.

Grant is a politician, of course he's selective with the truth. They're all full of BS

[Eddie]

2 hours ago, Damien said:

Gaslighting again. He's been repeating the same since he took over and trying to take credit for achieving nothing. All soundbites and zero substance. 

How does it capitalise, especially on the incredible rise of Samoa and Tonga? Yes the incredible rise that started around a decade ago before he started that we have paid lip service to.

International calendar mention? Tick. The one that has already changed.

Plan games in advance? Tick. That still didn't mean we knew if the Pacifc Championships were actually happening until 2 months before. It also still didn't stop the Aussies changing their minds about the Ashes because they now can't be arsed hosting. We still don't know the dates yet for that either. RLWC2026, what's the schedule for that again?

RLWC2021 cup atmosphere like the Olympics and a wow moment? Nothing new, we had a sellout and record international crowd back in 2013. He seems oblivious to the fact we had international RL before. And done better too.

Singing, atmosphere from Tonga? The same one we've had since 2017 that we largely failed to capitalise on. Was last week really more amazing than that RLWC semi final? Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't but the difference is neglible if so.

Bit of a road map for Scotland, Ireland etc in the northern hemisphere to follow? Is there? Where do heritage teams at u16s level fall into that?

RLPA for the international game? The same RLPA that gets funded by the NRL and has agreed with action after action to limit the international game.

No questions around RLWC2021, mid season internationals, no WCC next year etc. Strange that.

Grant seems to have been on a different planet where international RL was never played before he took over. He really offers nothing and is nothing more than a NRL stooge.

Excellent rant. 

[Damien]

4 minutes ago, The Future is League said:

We all know that there is no long term future for countries that rely on 90% on heritage players.

How good would Samoa or Tonga be if they had to rely on mostly players born in their countries and products of them countries junior systems?

I'm happy to accept the circumstances are vastly different when it comes to Australia, New Zealand and the PI nations. The PI nations and diaspora are full of athletes built for RL, hence both rugby codes scouting extensively there. That is coupled with those places having a rich Rugby heritage who are increasingly influenced by the NRL being the dominant sport and the dominant Rugby competition in the region.

Then on top of that you have the huge diaspora in Australia and NZ, relatively speaking, and a massive pool of RL players growing up in areas where RL is the number 1 sport. These are getting elite training and a fair number make the NRL.

All in all it is a pretty potent mix that is not replicated in Europe and never will be. It will never be the model for countries to take off here, or in most places.

[Sports Prophet]

37 minutes ago, Damien said:

Yes there is, you just choose to ignore it. The Ashes was scheduled to be in Australia as per the fabled international calendar. You know the one we've never had before, can't change and is so good for the game. We've known for well over a year that the next World Cup was going to be in the Southern hemisphere and you'd have had to be deluded not to know that it would have to be in Australia as no one else is capable of hosting. The fact it was going to be in the Southern hemisphere was even announced at the same time as it was announced that England would tour Australia in 2025. Therefore England were always scheduled to travel to the Southern hemisphere 2 years in a row, that had been the case for near 18 months and was what everyone decided upon, for better or worse.

Despite Australia being officially confirmed as hosts 4 months ago the NRL only approached the RFL 2 weeks ago to change that. This was after the RFL long talking of going to Australia, until very recently. Shaun Wane was still at it very recently and many players ad fans were looking forward to it. The RFL even consulted with fans on the tour and even whether we should have the GB name for it. Its quite obvious that fans were already planning trips etc.

You can choose to believe what you want, as can everyone else. The whole lets pretend that Australia had a change of heart and thought lets do this for the good of others doesn't really wash based on their track record of sabotage and riding roughshod over everybody.

"I don’t know what sellout new dawn you are referring to back in 2013" - I never mentioned a new dawn. Grant talked about the RLWC2021 cup atmosphere being like the Olympics and a wow moment. I was simply stating that was nothing new and we had a sellout and record international crowd back in 2013 for a tournament in the same country. Grant seems oblivious to the fact we had international RL before and it was often bigger and better.

Playing games will see the international game grow. No shock there. That is literally all we are doing and should have been done a long time ago.

You are incorrect Damian. NZ is capable of hosting a RLWC. They’ve hosted the RUWC. Australia were only confirmed as hosts of the next WC around June this year. There are no delusions here and you have ignored facts.

Are you sure it was only two weeks ago the NRL approached the RFL about a change of host for the Ashes? For one, it was being reported three weeks ago and just because that’s when reports surfaced, that is not evidence that this is when discussions first started. Yet even if the NRL did wait for SOO and the NRL season to finish before formally approaching, so what? As it turns out, the news is welcomed by their opponents and most of the RL fraternity. The RFL could have said “No thanks NRL, we prefer the calendar as it is”. They didn’t and a decision has been made with the willing approval of all stakeholders and with minimal concerns to the wider community. You are framing an argument based on your assumptions, rather than facts.

I have repeatedly demonstrated your theory for the NRL sabotaging international RL to be overstated and never have the NRL fought against plans for international football where those plans didn’t present a considerable threat to the NRL and its major stakeholders, the clubs. Just because you choose to ignore this, doesn’t make the NRL the global saboteur you purport them to be.

What was the sellout crowd in 2013???? I can’t think of anything which featured a PI nation which replicated the scenes at Parramatta a little over a week ago, prior to 2017 and since 2017, Tonga have featured in every non-covid affected year and in most circumstances have done so on the bankroll of the NRL. To even consider the Tongan, Samoan, Fijian, PNG or Cook Island bodies could organise and manage anything which could come within 20% of what the NRL have bankrolled for each of them since the 2017 RLWC is what you would define as “deluded”.

The NRL is the main organisation responsible for the continued growth of performance, coverage and fanfare of the PI nations, whether by accident or planned. 

Edited November 19, 2024 by Sports Prophet

[Damien]

1 hour ago, Sports Prophet said:

What was the sellout crowd in 2013???? I can’t think of anything which featured a PI nation which replicated the scenes at Parramatta a little over a week ago, prior to 2017 and since 2017, Tonga have featured in every non-covid affected year and in most circumstances have done so on the bankroll of the NRL. To even consider the Tongan, Samoan, Fijian, PNG or Cook Island bodies could organise and manage anything which could come within 20% of what the NRL have bankrolled for each of them since the 2017 RLWC is what you would define as “deluded”. 

Did you actually listen to the interview? It should be clear from what you quote anyway. Grant talked about the 2021 RLWC final crowd. I am simply stating we had a sellout record crowd back in 2013 at the same venue. Not sure what you think PI nations or 2017 have to do with it. It seems you are trying to blindly defend something again and Ive no idea what.

Edited November 19, 2024 by Damien

[Damien]

1 hour ago, Sports Prophet said:

You are incorrect Damian. NZ is capable of hosting a RLWC. They’ve hosted the RUWC. Australia were only confirmed as hosts of the next WC around June this year. There are no delusions here and you have ignored facts.

Are you sure it was only two weeks ago the NRL approached the RFL about a change of host for the Ashes? For one, it was being reported three weeks ago and just because that’s when reports surfaced, that is not evidence that this is when discussions first started. Yet even if the NRL did wait for SOO and the NRL season to finish before formally approaching, so what? As it turns out, the news is welcomed by their opponents and most of the RL fraternity. The RFL could have said “No thanks NRL, we prefer the calendar as it is”. They didn’t and a decision has been made with the willing approval of all stakeholders and with minimal concerns to the wider community. You are framing an argument based on your assumptions, rather than facts.

I have repeatedly demonstrated your theory for the NRL sabotaging international RL to be overstated and never have the NRL fought against plans for international football where those plans didn’t present a considerable threat to the NRL and its major stakeholders, the clubs. Just because you choose to ignore this, doesn’t make the NRL the global saboteur you purport them to be.

The NRL is the main organisation responsible for the continued growth of performance, coverage and fanfare of the PI nations, whether by accident or planned. 

As for the rest I'm not incorrect. RUWC is a different beast, you know that though. It's like saying France can hold a RLWC because we had a RUWC there. NZ have never get good crowds even for themselves, every tour solely there loses money. Tonga and Samoa playing there are the exception. Like I said you choose what you wish to believe and I will and I'm more than happy to let others decide for themselves.

Funny how you try and pretend you demonstrate things where as I just do theories. The truth is all you do is gaslight and present a revisionist history. Well lets look at this sabotage that is overstated:

• The Kangaroos now barely play, have years off and plainly couldn't give a hoot about developing the international game. Oh for the days as recently as the 2000s when they regularly played 6, 7 or 8 games a year. A year off was 2 games, that's practically the norm now
• The agreed and planned Confederations Cup scrapped because the Aussies changed their mind
• No 4 Nations anymore on the back of that
• We saw Tonga not allowed to arrange their own tests after RLWC2017 to capitalise on their success and crowds as they wanted. The NRL vetoed that because they had arranged matches without consulting them and instead wanted to make money from TV rights for Pacific Tests instead.
• We saw the Kiws and the RFL try and do their own thing to diversify and increase revenue streams with the Denver tests. Since that act of insubordination the NRL have been adamant that everyone will be pulled into line and do as they say. The Kiwis now continue to get by on whatever scraps get thrown their way instead.
• We saw RLWC2021 completely sabotaged because the NRL saw a way to exert control and completely take over the international game.
• We saw mid season internationals scrapped because SOO was threatened.
• We saw promises of a longer end of season international period to compensate turn out to be lies and a seemingly a cap of nations playing 3.
• Let's do a World 9s (with NRL branding of course) so we can do less internationals. Nah lets just do it once and scrap that
• We now see any international not played against England featuring NRL branding, using NRL rules and being used as a tool to further and develop brand NRL.
• We have seen the previously agreed strategy, by the NRL too before Abdo and V'landys took over, torn up and the World Cup contract from 16 teams to 10 as well as the strategy of the World Cup not being in the same year as other major international events changed
• We now see a drip feeding of the same rhetoric try their cronies that only the NRL can save the English game and they should take that over too.

There's probably heaps more. The truth is the NRL have been pretty terrible partners when it comes to the international game for a good decade. When we talk about this good they are now doing it is because they destroyed or limited whatever they could first. They have engineered a situation where they have full control and reap the benefits and these benefits are entirely for the NRL, not the international games per se.

I don't expect you to agree, and some of this may seem inconsequential, but it has been decision after decision to limit and undermine the international game. After a decade we end up where we are now.

Edited November 19, 2024 by Damien

[Sports Prophet]

40 minutes ago, Damien said:

Did you actually listen to the interview? It should be clear from what you quote anyway. Grant talked about the 2021 RLWC final crowd. I am simply stating we had a sellout record crowd back in 2013 at the same venue. Not sure what you think PI nations or 2017 have to do with it. It seems you are trying to blindly defend something again and Ive no idea what.

I did listen and I don’t really know how 2013 is relevant. He was asked at what point in his time at the helm did he get “that feeling”? So he answered, RLWC 2021 Final. 

You brought up 2013 as if he was neglecting history which he wasn’t.

In turn, I was left to try and understand what you were referencing against and as most of the conversation was centred around 2nd tier PI nations, I guessed you were talking about some WR crowd in 2013 featuring one of those nations. 

 

[Damien]

10 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

I did listen and I don’t really know how 2013 is relevant. He was asked at what point in his time at the helm did he get “that feeling”? So he answered, RLWC 2021 Final. 

You brought up 2013 as if he was neglecting history which he wasn’t.

In turn, I was left to try and understand what you were referencing against and as most of the conversation was centred around 2nd tier PI nations, I guessed you were talking about some WR crowd in 2013 featuring one of those nations. 

I said it was nothing new, it wasn't. My point was clear and correct, just because you disagree whether it's relevant or not to you doesn't change that.

[dealwithit]

Thanks for derailing the thread…

A few points that haven’t been picked up on:

1) IRL was on the brink of insolvency thanks to covid. Slowly coming back. 
2) IRL has worked with Tonga and Samoa to help create new governing bodies

3) IRL board last week spent most of the time talking promoting and marketing of matches. Good to hear

[Sports Prophet]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

The truth is all you do is gaslight and present a revisionist history. Well lets look at this sabotage that is overstated:

This “gaslighting” term really has become a favourite term of yours to act as a defence mechanism for subjects and “facts” which you are failing to credibly back up. I could easily and more credibly accuse you of “gaslighting” with your persistent purposeful ignorance. Frankly I miss your old go to accusations against others of “strawman” arguments.

Frankly, the NRL have come to the rescue of a RL world which has shown continued incompetence by accepting the responsibility and financial burden of hosting the next RLWC with far less planning time than has come to be expected. In fact, if it wasn’t for the influence of the NRL, there wouldn’t even have been a post season series for England this year because the RFL are predominantly a bunch of incompetent boneheads. If the NRL accepts this burden but has a few stipulations on the number of teams allowed in order for them to try and run it successfully, then that is their prerogative. I disagree with them on a 10 team WC, but I wouldn’t call this sabotage as many on this forum would.

1 hour ago, Damien said:

 

• The Kangaroos now barely play, have years off and plainly couldn't give a hoot about developing the international game. Oh for the days as recently as the 2000s when they regularly played 6, 7 or 8 games a year. A year off was 2 games, that's practically the norm now

The Kangaroos playing less fixtures than in days gone by is not an example of sabotage and certainly can’t be accused of not developing the international game when we have come off the back of two years of bankrolling Pacific Champ/Cup events and every team which participated for both Men and Women. You don’t think bankrolling all these other nations doesn’t come with some sort of cost to bankrolling, organising and managing more international footy?

1 hour ago, Damien said:

 

• The agreed and planned Confederations Cup scrapped because the Aussies changed their mind
• No 4 Nations anymore on the back of that

What Confederations Cup and what evidence is there it didn’t proceed because of Australia.

Australia electing not to play in a four nations is not them sabotaging international RL. If it was really worth it all, then why didn’t England continue with it, including three other nations?

1 hour ago, Damien said:

 

• We saw Tonga not allowed to arrange their own tests after RLWC2017 to capitalise on their success and crowds as they wanted. The NRL vetoed that because they had arranged matches without consulting them and instead wanted to make money from TV rights for Pacific Tests instead.

Did we? The NRL can only veto matters they are in control of. The Pacific Tests were already wrapped up in the TV contract. Was it that Tonga wanted to organise fixtures outside their contractual arrangement with the NRL to play Pacific Tests? If not, how did a threadbare, borderline penniless Tonga federation plan to fund, organise, promote and manage any such fixtures? Oh, that’s right, by having the NRL bankroll it.

1 hour ago, Damien said:

 

• We saw the Kiws and the RFL try and do their own thing to diversify and increase revenue streams with the Denver tests. Since that act of insubordination the NRL have been adamant that everyone will be pulled into line and do as they say. The Kiwis now continue to get by on whatever scraps get thrown their way instead.

England and the Kiwis organised a mid season international on the other side of the world, utilising predominantly NRL contracted players, many of which were the best in the competition. This presented significant risk to the NRL and its clubs with no reward. Not just potential injury but suitable recovery to play the following week starting Thursday evening. Damn right they objected to it, not as much as the clubs and the RLPA did mind you.

Alas, the match went ahead as an underwhelming fizz out, which didn’t exactly open the NRL’s eyes to a glowing financially rewarding future for international RL. Bravo England and NZ.

1 hour ago, Damien said:

 

• We saw RLWC2021 completely sabotaged because the NRL saw a way to exert control and completely take over the international game.
• We saw mid season internationals scrapped because SOO was threatened.

 

2021 was COVID affected. You choose to ignore the unique conditions NRL players experienced vs any other other sportspeople who travelled to the UK that year and you also choose to ignore the unique conditions that WC would have been played in, compared to other international events held at the same time. 

If the NRL didn’t want to play in the WC, then why on earth did they end up playing in it?

As to mid season tests threatening SOO, when were these last payed with regularity? 2019. 2020 and 2021, naturally did not go ahead. 2022 saw mid season NZ v Tonga, so I assume “scrapped” is in reference to 2023 onwards after a two year trial to host Origin II on a Sunday and incorporate an international window that very same weekend. SOO on the weekend was deemed to have a negative impact vs playing on a Wednesday night and with it, went the international window with the priority fairly placed on the club game and in its place, rather than bankrolling a mid season test which compromises the club game, bankroll three end of season pacific test match series and the 12 teams which participated.

12 teams the NRL were responsible for, as opposed to glory days of the past where they only had to manage and finance the Kangaroos. Damn right the Kangaroos play less games now. The by product of that is we see many more nations participating to the elite standard. We certainly aren’t seeing less games either.

1 hour ago, Damien said:

 

• Let's do a World 9s (with NRL branding of course) so we can do less internationals. Nah lets just do it once and scrap that
• We now see any international not played against England featuring NRL branding, using NRL rules and being used as a tool to further and develop brand NRL.
• We have seen the previously agreed strategy, by the NRL too before Abdo and V'landys took over, torn up and the World Cup contract from 16 teams to 10 as well as the strategy of the World Cup not being in the same year as other major international events changed

9s, tested, not a great success, left on the shelf for other international priorities. So what? Trying something new is the opposite of sabotage.

NRL branded internationals. So what? The NRL organise and pay for them. The players are almost exclusively contracted to the NRL. NRL branded internationals. Fair enough? Certainly not an example of sabotage.

World Cup changed. The fact the WC is proceeding at all in 2026 is down to the NRL bankrolling it. You may disagree with the format like I do, but the NRL is the WC saviour, not the WC saboteur.

LASTLY in closing

I shudder to think where international RL would be today without the influence, finance and management of the NRL. The international game would be bankrupt by now without them.

Edited November 19, 2024 by Sports Prophet

[gingerjon]

1 minute ago, Sports Prophet said:

This “gaslighting” term really has become a favourite term of yours to act as a defence mechanism for subjects and “facts” which you are failing to credibly back up. I could easily and more credibly accuse you of “gaslighting” with your persistent purposeful ignorance.

Frankly, the NRL have come to the rescue of a RL world which has shown continued incompetence by accepting the responsibility and financial burden of hosting the next RLWC with far less planning time than has come to be expected. In fact, if it wasn’t for the influence of the NRL, there wouldn’t even have been a post season series for England this year because the RFL are predominantly a bunch of incompetent boneheads. If the NRL accepts this burden but has a few stipulations on the number of teams allowed in order for them to try and run it successfully, then that is their prerogative. I disagree with them on a 10 team WC, but I wouldn’t call this sabotage as many on this forum would.

The Kangaroos playing less fixtures than in days gone by is not an example of sabotage and certainly can’t be accused of not developing the international game when we have come off the back of two years of bankrolling Pacific Champ/Cup events and every team which participated for both Men and Women. You don’t think bankrolling all these other nations doesn’t come with some sort of cost to bankrolling, organising and managing more international footy?

What Confederations Cup and what evidence is there it didn’t proceed because of Australia.

Australia electing not to play in a four nations is not them sabotaging international RL. If it was really worth it all, then why didn’t England continue with it, including three other nations?

Did we? The NRL can only veto matters they are in control of. The Pacific Tests were already wrapped up in the TV contract. Was it that Tonga wanted to organise fixtures outside their contractual arrangement with the NRL to play Pacific Tests? If not, how did a threadbare, borderline penniless Tonga federation plan to fund, organise, promote and manage any such fixtures? Oh, that’s right, by having the NRL bankroll it.

England and the Kiwis organised a mid season international on the other side of the world, utilising predominantly NRL contracted players, many of which were the best in the competition. This presented significant risk to the NRL and its clubs with no reward. Not just potential injury but suitable recovery to play the following week starting Thursday evening. Damn right they objected to it, not as much as the clubs and the RLPA did mind you.

Alas, the match went ahead as an underwhelming fizz out, which didn’t exactly open the NRL’s eyes to a glowing financially rewarding future for international RL. Bravo England and NZ.

2021 was COVID affected. You choose to ignore the unique conditions NRL players experienced vs any other other sportspeople who travelled to the UK that year and you also choose to ignore the unique conditions that WC would have been played in, compared to other international events held at the same time. 

If the NRL didn’t want to play in the WC, then why on earth did they end up playing in it?

As to mid season tests threatening SOO, when were these last payed with regularity? 2019. 2020 and 2021, naturally did not go ahead. 2022 saw mid season NZ v Tonga, so I assume “scrapped” is in reference to 2023 onwards after a two year trial to host Origin II on a Sunday and incorporate an international window that very same weekend. SOO on the weekend was deemed to have a negative impact vs playing on a Wednesday night and with it, went the international window with the priority fairly placed on the club game and in its place, rather than bankrolling a mid season test which compromises the club game, bankroll three end of season pacific test match series and the 12 teams which participated.

12 teams the NRL were responsible for, as opposed to glory days of the past where they only had to manage and finance the Kangaroos. Damn right the Kangaroos play less games now. The by product of that is we see many more nations participating to the elite standard. We certainly aren’t seeing less games either.

9s, tested, not a great success, left on the shelf for other international priorities. So what? Trying something new is the opposite of sabotage.

NRL branded internationals. So what? The NRL organise and pay for them. The players are almost exclusively contracted to the NRL. NRL branded internationals. Fair enough? Certainly not an example of sabotage.

World Cup changed. The fact the WC is proceeding at all in 2026 is down to the NRL bankrolling it. You may disagree with the format like I do, but the NRL is the WC saviour, not the WC saboteur.

LASTLY in closing

I shudder to think where international RL would be today without the influence, finance and management of the NRL. The international game would be bankrupt by now without them.

Mate.

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Mate.

That sums it up perfectly . Words certainly fail me reading that!

Edited November 19, 2024 by Damien

[Sports Prophet]

1 hour ago, Damien said:

I said it was nothing new, it wasn't. My point was clear and correct, just because you disagree whether it's relevant or not to you doesn't change that.

Your 2013 point was irrelevant to the question Tory Grant answered, irrelevant to the premise of the interview and irrelevant to this topic. As such it was very unclear.

Having made sense of your point, I then demonstrated your accusations of Troy Grant to be gaslighting to be false.

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Your 2013 point was irrelevant to the question Tory Grant answered, irrelevant to the premise of the interview and irrelevant to this topic. As such it was very unclear.

Having made sense of your point, I then demonstrated your accusations of Troy Grant to be gaslighting to be false.

Cool.

Is Grant a Tory? wouldn't be surprised to be honest. The traits are definitely there.

Edited November 19, 2024 by Damien