Salford financial issues(again…)

[Dullish Mood]

So 78 pages in and nobody on here knows anything at all about what’s actually going on.  Sound.  Just thought I’d summarise.

[binosh]

5 hours ago, RP London said:

What do you want them to do, kick them out?

They are trying to help Salford by allowing them to stay afloat while a buyer is found, they are also forcing them to cut their cloth in case that doesn't happen and by cutting their cloth they may be able to make it to the end of the season. 

Conversations pre this point are not known, neither are current conversations, and to speculate on what was said or that they didnt happen would be pure speculation. I will bag the RFL as quick as the next person, when it is appropriate. At the moment they appear to be doing their best for Salford to stay with us and I don't think that is a bad thing. 

Business sales can drag on for a multitude of reasons and it 100% isn't the place for the RFL to get directly involved in that, unless they are requesting information from the RFL of course. If it is a fit and proper persons check that holds it up then maybe the RFL could expedite this but even that shouldn't be rushed. If the RFL meddle too much in this there'll be buyers who will just walk away from the purchase due to that meddling. 

If there is no news to tell what do you want them to say?

The thing is though, you say they the RFL are forcing them to cut their cloth accordingly but as of yet they have loaned them £500k roughly 41% of their total funding and no players have actually left. They clearly don’t trust Salford as the RFL are currently paying the players direct.

I appreciate a buyer may yet come in but the RFL should have had some teeth and forced the issue straight away to reduce outgoings. Once buyers are found and the club is solvent then signings can be made to reinforce the squad, both Castleford and Wakefield have had to do this. 

If a deal falls through can Salford even complete the season with only £750k of central funding left to last until September after burning through £500k since December. Salford only have a couple of home games in the first 2 months and one of them is Huddersfield.

There is a lot riding on this deal and it should not have come to this.

[binosh]

2 hours ago, Dave T said:

I'm not sure why there is such anger towards Salford, and almost this blood-thirsty attitude of wanting to punish them now (or even months ago) for struggling financially. 

I'm not particularly a fan of the way they have done business, but they are an RL club trying to survive, I with them the best and if that means holding off on kicking them while they are down, then so be it.

One thing that doesn't stack up for me is why do people think that King is dragging his feet? He knows that they haven't got the money to pay the bills for the year, hence asking for the loan. It's not really in his interests to keep this going - he knows the game is up really in terms of his ownership and he's said as such that his role now is making sure the club survives and doesn't go under on his watch. Sure there is always the risk of dodgy dealing and sinister motives, but often the truth is that it's very often just people trying to do their best and not always getting it right.

I think the constant nit-picking and demanding daily updates is unnecessary - they are still a functioning club who are struggling and had to borrow some money to pay the bills, they haven't gone bust (yet), I think the calls for punishments etc are a little misguided personally. But, each to their own.

I think it’s because we have seen it all before, this time no crystal ball was needed to see this slow car crash of financial mismanagement occurring, special measures started 12 months ago and somehow Salford thought spend, spend, spend, the club has been bailed out by fans, the council, the RFL and now awaiting someone else.

[Charlie]

29 minutes ago, binosh said:

The thing is though, you say they the RFL are forcing them to cut their cloth accordingly but as of yet they have loaned them £500k roughly 41% of their total funding and no players have actually left. They clearly don’t trust Salford as the RFL are currently paying the players direct.

I appreciate a buyer may yet come in but the RFL should have had some teeth and forced the issue straight away to reduce outgoings. Once buyers are found and the club is solvent then signings can be made to reinforce the squad, both Castleford and Wakefield have had to do this. 

If a deal falls through can Salford even complete the season with only £750k of central funding left to last until September after burning through £500k since December. Salford only have a couple of home games in the first 2 months and one of them is Huddersfield.

There is a lot riding on this deal and it should not have come to this.

Where have you read the rfl are paying the players ?

[dboy]

Just now, Charlie said:

Where have you read the rfl are paying the players ?

It was covered in the media that the RFL were directly administering the advance payment, so it couldn't disappear down a black hole.

[Charlie]

1 minute ago, dboy said:

It was covered in the media that the RFL were directly administering the advance payment, so it couldn't disappear down a black hole.

Must of missed that one as I’ve not seen anything mentioned 

[binosh]

2 minutes ago, Charlie said:

Where have you read the rfl are paying the players ?

A BBC article here…

 

Super League club Salford Red Devils have been issued with a reduced sustainability cap and ordered to sell players by the Rugby Football League.

Uncertainty about the Red Devils' future at Salford Community Stadium has led to doubts over gathering commercial revenue and left gaps in their finances.

Salford said they have maintained a level of silence in recent months "due to the sensitive nature of ongoing discussions with potential investors".

"Our discretion has been to maintain and ensure the integrity of those discussions, bound by non-disclosure agreements, and to protect our club, players and staff," Salford said.

"As the position stands, contrary to what has been reported, investor negotiations continued over the weekend as part of the lengthy, rigorous process to secure a takeover for the club. This is still live and we are working to expedite - details of which we can't disclose given the non-disclosure agreement in place.

"However, the club has been directed to sell players without delay; the position is the RFL have issued a sustainability cap of £1.2m, and until we reach that, we are now prohibited from registering players for the upcoming season."

The regular sustainability cap for Super League clubs is £2.1m.

Salford were thrown a financial lifeline in November when fellow Super League clubs agreed to give them an advance payment of their 2025 distribution money.

"The terms of receiving the advancement were that the club be placed under 'special measures' requiring a reduction in overheads of £800,000," Salford added. 

"We were not given a clear timeline for compliance on required expenditure reductions, therefore the club took the decision to hold our position for the short-term while investor negotiations are ongoing. During this time the club has received offers for a number of players, none of whom have been available for sale until today.

"It is important to add that the advancement monies were held by RL Commercial and payments administered directly from them - the club have never been given the funds to manage directly."

Salford City Council approved a deal to purchase the stadium the Red Devils share with rugby union club Sale Sharks in September.

The Red Devils said they were unable to contact the council during the "festive period" to secure a meeting and "ascertain next steps in order to maximise club revenue opportunities".

"Prior to acquisition, one investor negotiation collapsed due to the investment risk of not having any confirmed position from the Council on when the stadium acquisition would be finalised; an example of the delicate negotiating position we find ourselves in," Salford said.

The Super League club, who reached the Grand Final in 2019, also said Salford City Council failed to deliver on a subsidy control grant which had initially been suggested in March 2024.

"The club were notified in July 2024 of a delay and again in September 2024 with a further delay until November 2024, again impacting financial forecasting," Salford said.

"In November 2024, Salford City Council advised that the subsidy control grant was not available due to funding shortfalls elsewhere, the impact of which was that the club had already committed funds to player and staff recruitment and paid for pre-season preparations including a warm-weather camp in Portugal. Effectively, these projected funds had already been allocated."

The Red Devils are due to begin their 2025 Super League campaign at St Helens on 15 February.

[LeeF]

2 hours ago, Barley Mow said:

Okay.

You don't think that Salford might be in breach of contract if they employed people as players, but then didn't register them to play?

It also wouldn't achieve the RFL's objective in requiring Salford to reduce outgoings - they would all still be payed, just not as players counting towards the cap. The RFL might as well row back on the reduction of the cap.

I would have thought so as the players will be missing out on appearance money linked to their contract and if they aren’t registered then yes they are free to move elsewhere 

The Salary Cap is for the year though so in theory they can get it raised back to normal levels by getting some additional income in during the year eg by a new owner injecting funds

[LeeF]

5 minutes ago, dboy said:

It was covered in the media that the RFL were directly administering the advance payment, so it couldn't disappear down a black hole.

If the RFL are paying the players I wonder how they are meeting other creditors as they become due. They are probably one missed payment from a winding up order being issued. 

[Charlie]

1 minute ago, LeeF said:

If the RFL are paying the players I wonder how they are meeting other creditors as they become due. They are probably one missed payment from a winding up order being issued. 

No reports of this being the case though, just. Waiting game now 

[LeeF]

1 minute ago, Charlie said:

No reports of this being the case though, just. Waiting game now 

I was just pointing out how precarious their position is and not just in relation to players

[LeeF]

4 hours ago, Martyn Sadler said:

The RFL can't instruct a club to sell any of its players. Only the club itself has that power.

What the RFL can do, however, is insist on a reduced salary cap for a club, which in this case has been set at £1.2 million.

The RFL is in possession of all the Salford player contracts and it will not allow Salford to register a squad whose total value goes over £1.2 million.

What could potentially happen (and this is only my surmising) is that Salford could register players up to that value for their Challenge Cup game against Midlands Hurricanes on February 8/9 while retaining those players excluded from that list until the new owners finally emerge, so that when they do take final control the squad hasn't been decimated and those players initially excluded could be added back to the salary cap.

 

That would be too close to potentially acting as a Shadow Director and with the likelihood that they are very close to trading insolvent that is something they would/ should stay well clear of

[Dave T]

2 hours ago, binosh said:

I think it’s because we have seen it all before, this time no crystal ball was needed to see this slow car crash of financial mismanagement occurring, special measures started 12 months ago and somehow Salford thought spend, spend, spend, the club has been bailed out by fans, the council, the RFL and now awaiting someone else.

I'm still not sure why that makes you and others so angry. 

Their council has helped - well good, so have many others. My team has certainly had support from their council. Fans have bailed them out - again, that's on them, that's often what fans do. The RFL have advanced funds, not really a new activity in RL. And you say waiting for someone else, well that's an investor, if it comes off, excellent! Most clubs are not balancing the books, they are losing millions and getting other people to pay their bills. 

Salford are hardly unique here. And if we look at the clubs just below them, London, Bradford, Fev, York, Halifax, Toulouse - all pretty much the same, or worse.

 

[M j M]

19 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I'm still not sure why that makes you and others so angry. 

Their council has helped - well good, so have many others. My team has certainly had support from their council. Fans have bailed them out - again, that's on them, that's often what fans do. The RFL have advanced funds, not really a new activity in RL. And you say waiting for someone else, well that's an investor, if it comes off, excellent! Most clubs are not balancing the books, they are losing millions and getting other people to pay their bills. 

Salford are hardly unique here. And if we look at the clubs just below them, London, Bradford, Fev, York, Halifax, Toulouse - all pretty much the same, or worse.

 

The difference is that people know more about this one and for some reason think they have a right to know even more. As you say all of this has happened before but I don't recall it being so public when e.g. a club was advanced funds ahead of time. People just need to calm down, you're not going to get a blow by blow account of what's happening and we have no information either way as to who the potential backers are or what or when it's going to complete.

[Tommygilf]

18 minutes ago, Dave T said:

I'm still not sure why that makes you and others so angry. 

Their council has helped - well good, so have many others. My team has certainly had support from their council. Fans have bailed them out - again, that's on them, that's often what fans do. The RFL have advanced funds, not really a new activity in RL. And you say waiting for someone else, well that's an investor, if it comes off, excellent! Most clubs are not balancing the books, they are losing millions and getting other people to pay their bills. 

Salford are hardly unique here. And if we look at the clubs just below them, London, Bradford, Fev, York, Halifax, Toulouse - all pretty much the same, or worse.

 

I think there is a certain element of the above, which when juxtaposed with a victim mentality amongst some of the louder members of the fanbase on social media, who get particularly aggressive in their defence of SRD, grates some fans of other clubs. The smugness of some SRD fans at their "handling" of the situation does also seem to rile many too. I remember lots of that around the time the CVA was cancelled.

Ultimately I think all clubs get a certain amount of sympathy but for a variety of reasons that sympathy runs out. I think Salford are pretty close to that with a lot of fans of some clubs now.

[Dave T]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I think there is a certain element of the above, which when juxtaposed with a victim mentality amongst some of the louder members of the fanbase on social media, who get particularly aggressive in their defence of SRD, grates some fans of other clubs. The smugness of some SRD fans at their "handling" of the situation does also seem to rile many too. I remember lots of that around the time the CVA was cancelled.

Ultimately I think all clubs get a certain amount of sympathy but for a variety of reasons that sympathy runs out. I think Salford are pretty close to that with a lot of fans of some clubs now.

I think that's the bit that still confuses me. Sure, some Salford fans can grate, but every club has that element. I don't personally find them too bad here tbh.

I would add, I reserve the right to act like a hater should Saints find themselves in this situation

[Tommygilf]

1 hour ago, Dave T said:

I think that's the bit that still confuses me. Sure, some Salford fans can grate, but every club has that element. I don't personally find them too bad here tbh.

I would add, I reserve the right to act like a hater should Saints find themselves in this situation

This forum isn't an isolated island though I suppose, the wider discourse does play a factor. 

[The Masked Poster]

Can anybody put their hand up if they are actually angry? It seems like wondering how long this farce can drag on amounts to anger now.

 

 

[The Masked Poster]

1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:

I think there is a certain element of the above, which when juxtaposed with a victim mentality amongst some of the louder members of the fanbase on social media, who get particularly aggressive in their defence of SRD, grates some fans of other clubs. The smugness of some SRD fans at their "handling" of the situation does also seem to rile many too. I remember lots of that around the time the CVA was cancelled.

Ultimately I think all clubs get a certain amount of sympathy but for a variety of reasons that sympathy runs out. I think Salford are pretty close to that with a lot of fans of some clubs now.

Fans taking sides I understand and that will always happen. But my main concern is that this makes the governing body look like it has zero clout or authority. I *want* a strong Salford club, they'd be an asset to the game. But this is now setting a precedent for the future and it's not good. 

[sweaty craiq]

Two priorities, 1/ that Salford as a club survive and live within whatever means they can afford going forward 2/ that the governing body grow a pair or find folk who can, deadlines are deadlines once set.

I recall the sheeite on here when Degsy reacted immediately to financial reality and avoided the mess we witness at Salford because they didn’t . Players have contracts - they can find another club that pays the same, cut their losses by moving on and take a pay off or stay and force administration 

[RP London]

12 hours ago, LeeF said:

If the RFL are paying the players I wonder how they are meeting other creditors as they become due. They are probably one missed payment from a winding up order being issued. 

Normally it's only really HMRC that issue winding up orders, everyone else waits to get to paid, winding up orders mean you get very little as a creditor so you tend not to do it. 

Keep paying HMRC and you'll get through things normally

[RP London]

13 hours ago, binosh said:

The thing is though, you say they the RFL are forcing them to cut their cloth accordingly but as of yet they have loaned them £500k roughly 41% of their total funding and no players have actually left. They clearly don’t trust Salford as the RFL are currently paying the players direct.

I appreciate a buyer may yet come in but the RFL should have had some teeth and forced the issue straight away to reduce outgoings. Once buyers are found and the club is solvent then signings can be made to reinforce the squad, both Castleford and Wakefield have had to do this. 

If a deal falls through can Salford even complete the season with only £750k of central funding left to last until September after burning through £500k since December. Salford only have a couple of home games in the first 2 months and one of them is Huddersfield.

There is a lot riding on this deal and it should not have come to this.

I agree with your last sentence and have said the same. It shouldn't have got to this but what can you ask a governing body who doesn't own the club actually do about it? Shall we just kick clubs out when we just don't "think" they are "OK"? 

Clubs can get close to issues and come out the other side, other clubs can get to the same point but for some reason it falls through etc etc..

20:20 hindsight will kill you..

Honestly I don't like where we are but equally I'm not sure exactly what people think should have happened.. Salford kicked out of super league and gone into admin? That seems basically the other option.

Edited January 29 by RP London

[Archie Gordon]

8 hours ago, The Masked Poster said:

Can anybody put their hand up if they are actually angry? It seems like wondering how long this farce can drag on amounts to anger now.

Yeah. It's frustration for me. 18 months of a very slow car crash where everyone with any agency has just shrugged. 

[dkw]

8 hours ago, The Masked Poster said:

Can anybody put their hand up if they are actually angry? It seems like wondering how long this farce can drag on amounts to anger now.

 

 

I've not seen any anger in this thread, just some odd people claiming anyone daring to question the situation is angry for some reason, very weird.

Also I dont see many happy to see Salford go under, one or 2 aobivously have some kind of grudge are reveling in it but the vast majority seem to want to see Salford get this sorted, albeit it there has to be some kind of "punishment" at the end of this.

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, dkw said:

I've not seen any anger in this thread, just some odd people claiming anyone daring to question the situation is angry for some reason, very weird.

Also I dont see many happy to see Salford go under, one or 2 aobivously have some kind of grudge are reveling in it but the vast majority seem to want to see Salford get this sorted, albeit it there has to be some kind of "punishment" at the end of this.

What have they done to be punished for yet? I agree that none of this is a good look and Salford have sailed close to the wind more times than I can remember. However if they do get took over and sort themselves out financially what rules breaches have they made?