Participation in Australia

[Sports Prophet]

4 hours ago, Dullish Mood said:

I love how nearly as many people play baseball in Oz as play Union.

I only went and watched the ABL last weekend. Had a great time of it.

More fun than I would have had watching the Wobblies  

Edited November 28, 2024 by Sports Prophet

[Eddie]

3 hours ago, gingerjon said:

All are on the footyindustryAU twitter account but:

Victoria

NSW

Queensland

I like how even in Victoria there are more  league than union players. 

[The Rocket]

6 hours ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:

My only surprise would be if people were surprised by this

Even in their little corner of Australia where it's played it will continue to decline in participation..... 

It's a dangerous sport in terms of the body and brain both short and long term.....I chose for my kids to play netball and soccer despite an active union club they could have joined - for the same reason I'm would not let take up horse riding

Our sport is on the wrong side of history unfortunately 

As my med student son said to me, and if they find a cure for CTE and even spinal cord injuries, and let`s face it, these are the two main reasons parents are apprehensive about letting their children play heavy contact sports.

[Damien]

41 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I like how even in Victoria there are more  league than union players. 

And South Australia too. Yes the figures are tiny but RU types try and pretend RU while smaller in NSW and Queensland is bigger everywhere else. These figures don't really back up that claim.

[The Rocket]

10 hours ago, Barley Mow said:

I was thinking the same thing, about multiple categories being RL.

However I'm not sure whether what they label 'Touch Football' is Australian Rules Touch.

I`ve never heard of Australian rules touch football, ever, and I`m sure I would have heard of it at some stage.

Even when you google Australian rules Touch football you get a Rugby League type version of the game.

This is supported by when you look at the Victorian chart the Touch Football figure, the one you were assuming to be Aussie rules touch football is very low, and I`m almost positive this number would be far, far higher if it were the touch version of that sport.

I`d suggest that the confusion lies in the different bodies that control the Touch versions of the game, either the NRL affiliated body or the less formal ones like the ones that some of the blokes I work with play.

 

9 hours ago, Worzel said:

 So 470,000 is the total number for all formats of rugby league. 

 

The contact version of the game would be approaching 200 000 alone and Touch Football is huge with around 500 000 participants nationwide and that`s before we include the ever growing popular sport of League Tag.

 

 

 

[unapologetic pedant]

54 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

I`d suggest that the confusion lies in the different bodies that control the Touch versions of the game, either the NRL affiliated body or the less formal ones like the ones that some of the blokes I work with play.

The contact version of the game would be approaching 200 000 alone and Touch Football is huge with around 500 000 participants nationwide and that`s before we include the ever growing popular sport of League Tag.

The graph has more people playing Tackle RL than Touch. Which must be garbage.

Touch figures from a few years ago had "Total Participation" at 422k and "Registered Participation" at 167k. Since then, I've seen 600-700k cited as the overall figure.

And on one of the other graphs, do we really think there are almost 100k fumblers in NSW?

[The Rocket]

2 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

Touch figures from a few years ago had "Total Participation" at 422k and "Registered Participation" at 167k. Since then, I've seen 600-700k cited as the overall figure.

 

That 600 - 700k figure probably does count some double-counting, but never-the-less even 500k is an incredible number.

There was an article on my local news last week about a new NRL accredited League-Tag competition in schools, the bloke running it was trotting out the mantra finally and persistently being pushed by the NRL about how it was an ideal entry point for those not yet, or never likely to be engaged in the tackle version. Including interview with bespectacled child to emphasis the point. LOL.

3 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

And on one of the other graphs, do we really think there are almost 100k fumblers in NSW?

We`ve all been warned, one look, even sideways, at a sherrin, and you`re included in their participation figures.

[The Future is League]

5 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

The graph has more people playing Tackle RL than Touch. Which must be garbage.

Touch figures from a few years ago had "Total Participation" at 422k and "Registered Participation" at 167k. Since then, I've seen 600-700k cited as the overall figure.

And on one of the other graphs, do we really think there are almost 100k fumblers in NSW?

No intelligent person believes that there is almost 100k fumblers in NSW, and i  seriously doubt there are nearly 100k fumblers in NSW and QLD combined.

[The Future is League]

2 hours ago, The Rocket said:

That 600 - 700k figure probably does count some double-counting, but never-the-less even 500k is an incredible number.

There was an article on my local news last week about a new NRL accredited League-Tag competition in schools, the bloke running it was trotting out the mantra finally and persistently being pushed by the NRL about how it was an ideal entry point for those not yet, or never likely to be engaged in the tackle version. Including interview with bespectacled child to emphasis the point. LOL.

We`ve all been warned, one look, even sideways, at a sherrin, and you`re included in their participation figures.

I know one of the measures they used once to count fumblers in NSW schools was even if you had a 1 hour fumbleball lesson a week and didn't play for your school or a club you was still classed as a fumbler.

[warriors 95]

11 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

I only went and watched the ABL last weekend. Had a great time of it.

More fun than I would have had watching the Wobblies  

Are the teams full of Americans and Japanese players?

[The Rocket]

1 hour ago, The Future is League said:

I know one of the measures they used once to count fumblers in NSW schools was even if you had a 1 hour fumbleball lesson a week and didn't play for your school or a club you was still classed as a fumbler.

Famously Nathan Cleary was once counted in their participation figures after attending such a clinic.

[gingerjon]

2 hours ago, The Future is League said:

I know one of the measures they used once to count fumblers in NSW schools was even if you had a 1 hour fumbleball lesson a week and didn't play for your school or a club you was still classed as a fumbler.

Thankfully, for this one, governing bodies are nowhere near the numbers.

You can, as ever, read all about it: https://www.clearinghouseforsport.gov.au/research/ausplay/method

[The Future is League]

1 hour ago, The Rocket said:

Famously Nathan Cleary was once counted in their participation figures after attending such a clinic.

 

29 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Thankfully, for this one, governing bodies are nowhere near the numbers.

You can, as ever, read all about it: https://www.clearinghouseforsport.gov.au/research/ausplay/method

I seem to remember that Vicky Kicky house have had a tug on their claims of junior playing numbers in the past and have adjusted them down after the tugs

[The Future is League]

1 hour ago, The Rocket said:

Famously Nathan Cleary was once counted in their participation figures after attending such a clinic.

Which showed at the that time how Vicky Kicky counted their juniors, and if my memory serves me right couldn't they access more taxpayers money the more junior players they claimed they had?

[Worzel]

10 hours ago, The Rocket said:

The contact version of the game would be approaching 200 000 alone and Touch Football is huge with around 500 000 participants nationwide and that`s before we include the ever growing popular sport of League Tag.

Well the graph shows the Ausplay research, which says 200k for contact, 200k for touch and 70k for tag. If you've got any other data it'd be good to see, but at the moment suggests the total is 470k. 

Looks like you think there are a lot more Touch players than they do?

[HawkMan]

Why is Soccer dominant in a country with no real Soccer history , certainly internationally or locally in terms of a top pro league, ( A league is awful), and why is basketball number 1 in Victoria? You'd think the number 1 participation sport would translate to a top pro league. Does every Aussie Soccer fan just follow A European team or the EPL? This seems bizarre to me.

Edit ; Does the Soccer figures include other formats as the League figures do? Futsal, five- a- side?

Edited November 29, 2024 by HawkMan

[Worzel]

16 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

Why is Soccer dominant in a country with no real Soccer history , certainly internationally or locally in terms of a top pro league, ( A league is awful), and why is basketball number 1 in Victoria? You'd think the number 1 participation sport would translate to a top pro league. Does every Aussie Soccer fan just follow A European team or the EPL? This seems bizarre to me.

Expats. When I lived in Manly, almost every person in our football club was either a Brit, or the child of a Brit. In other suburbs, it's the the same story, expats or kids of different very recent immigrants, whether Croatian, Greek, or whatever. 

[The Rocket]

29 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

Why is Soccer dominant in a country with no real Soccer history , certainly internationally or locally in terms of a top pro league, ( A league is awful), and why is basketball number 1 in Victoria? You'd think the number 1 participation sport would translate to a top pro league. Does every Aussie Soccer fan just follow A European team or the EPL? This seems bizarre to me.

Edit ; Does the Soccer figures include other formats as the League figures do? Futsal, five- a- side?

Australians play a lot of sport, team sports are popular and soccer is the safe option. I`d hazard a guess that reduced family sizes has put a premium on child safety, christ if you`ve only got two you can`t afford to risk losing one despite how remote the odds of that happening.

With regard to EPL, I have absolutely no interest but I do know it features almost nightly in our local commercial broadcasters news and on our national Gov`t owned  (the ABC) nightly news as well.

Out of interest when I was at school League was pretty much played equally across all socio-economic demographics, maybe skewed slightly towards the lower ( < for the want of a better word) socio-economic groups. I think you could safely say there has been a retraction of the game towards the aforementioned groups over the last forty years, the real challenge is to reverse this trend. Involvement in the non-contact versions of the game are a good starting point.

 

 

 

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, HawkMan said:

Why is Soccer dominant in a country with no real Soccer history , certainly internationally or locally in terms of a top pro league, ( A league is awful), and why is basketball number 1 in Victoria? You'd think the number 1 participation sport would translate to a top pro league. Does every Aussie Soccer fan just follow A European team or the EPL? This seems bizarre to me.

Edit ; Does the Soccer figures include other formats as the League figures do? Futsal, five- a- side?

The Matildas are the best supported and most followed national team in Australia.

Australia has a professional basketball league with a minimum player salary of $79,500 (£40,700) and a team salary cap of just shy of $2m.

[The Rocket]

9 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

The Matildas are the best supported and most followed national team in Australia.

Until they start losing and once the other soccer nations, namely South American amongst others get over their gender bias and accept womens` sport, the Matildas position in the pecking order of world`s women soccer will go south pretty quickly, as will Australia`s love affair with them. The signs are already there.

 

14 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Australia has a professional basketball league with a minimum player salary of $79,500 (£40,700) and a team salary cap of just shy of $2m.

Basketball has a lot of false dawns in this country it would take a large decline in the popularity of the main codes for them to break through the ceiling in popularity levels that it has already reached but been able to breach several times.

[gingerjon]

Just now, The Rocket said:

[1] Until they start losing and once the other soccer nations, namely South American amongst others get over their gender bias and accept womens` sport, the Matildas position in the pecking order of world`s women soccer will go south pretty quickly, as will Australia`s love affair with them. The signs are already there.

 

Basketball has a lot of false dawns in this country it would take a large decline in the popularity of the main codes for them to break through the ceiling in popularity levels that it has already reached but been able to breach several times.

[1] I doubt they will maintain the same level of popularity but there is no reason to expect a massive collapse. Women's football is likely to remain a decent and profitable way for female athletes from Australia to earn decent money around the world for a long time to come as well.

[2] No idea what their expectations are but, following a quick check, the basketball league looks decent, features a lot of Australians, and is one of the top paying ones in the world. I doubt it will ever be more popular than traditional sports in Oz but see no reason to doubt the high level of participation - and just noting that translates to a pretty well attended league.

[Damien]

17 minutes ago, The Rocket said:

Basketball has a lot of false dawns in this country it would take a large decline in the popularity of the main codes for them to break through the ceiling in popularity levels that it has already reached but been able to breach several times.

Wouldn't Basketball suffer from the same issues as Soccer in that the top professional level in Australia is a pale imitation of the NBA? Sure loads may play it but it's never going to translate to the top level and become like the NRL or AFL when it comes to TV deals etc. Same principle applies in other countries, like Soccer in Ireland etc.

[The Rocket]

22 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Women's football is likely to remain a decent and profitable way for female athletes from Australia to earn decent money around the world for a long time to come as well.

There was talk of the collapse of the women`s domestic competition, the W-League, due to a lack of funds, not so long ago. The men`s competition took a hammering in their broadcast deal, the women`s is basically worthless. The women are basically playing for the love of it, and even that may not be enough.

No domestic League and it`s going to be very hard to get noticed by international scouts. 

The whole situation is compounded when the main codes are offering minimum wages that will soon be $60k Oz, with soon most likely 2 twenty teams competitions, the more popular with 30 person squads and the other about 40 or whatever they have.

[corkonian77]

1 hour ago, The Rocket said:

Australians play a lot of sport, team sports are popular and soccer is the safe option. I`d hazard a guess that reduced family sizes has put a premium on child safety, christ if you`ve only got two you can`t afford to risk losing one despite how remote the odds of that happening.

With regard to EPL, I have absolutely no interest but I do know it features almost nightly in our local commercial broadcasters news and on our national Gov`t owned  (the ABC) nightly news as well.

Out of interest when I was at school League was pretty much played equally across all socio-economic demographics, maybe skewed slightly towards the lower ( < for the want of a better word) socio-economic groups. I think you could safely say there has been a retraction of the game towards the aforementioned groups over the last forty years, the real challenge is to reverse this trend. Involvement in the non-contact versions of the game are a good starting point.

 

 

 

This issue  is probably  going to get worse not better in regards the contact side.

 

[Dirkgee]

13 hours ago, unapologetic pedant said:

The graph has more people playing Tackle RL than Touch. Which must be garbage.

Touch figures from a few years ago had "Total Participation" at 422k and "Registered Participation" at 167k. Since then, I've seen 600-700k cited as the overall figure.

And on one of the other graphs, do we really think there are almost 100k fumblers in NSW?

It’s not surprising to see 100k in NSW. From the Victorian border to just south of Wagga Wagga is mostly Aussie rules territory as they were more influenced by Melbourne than Sydney as it was closer to Melbourne on the railway historically,

Add that to the growing Aussie Rules support in the former Rugby Union heartlands of the rich Eastern Sydney suburbs and I honestly don’t think it’s that much of a stretch.