Challenge Cup 2025

[dkw]

55 minutes ago, KiwiRL said:

Actually the simplest form of knock out competition is an open bracket where 16, 32, or 64 teams are all drawn from the opening round like a tennis major.

Not some teams coming in during later rounds and the farce of pros against amateurs in a contact sport in an already overstuffed schedule.

Type of rubbish that helps explain why the British game is on it's ass. 

So you want an open draw where Sl teams can come in the first round, possibly against amateurs, but also you dont like that amateur teams can be drawn againt SL teams in the 3rd round? Just ridiculous contradictory nonsense from you to use to knock the British RL game

Edited January 15 by dkw

[KiwiRL]

3 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

There are rounds that take place before the main event.

Previous winners usually get to open against a qualifier who will have played in some or all of those rounds.

In a seeded, and not open, draw.

Some differences.

1. The qualifiers are still pro players.

2. The qualifying tournaments aren't considered the opening rounds of Majors.

3. Unseeded players unlike their rugby league equivalents actually have a chance of winning in tennis Majors.

 

[Damien]

18 minutes ago, RBKnight said:

When Emma Raducanu won the US Open tennis in 2021, she had to win three qualifying rounds to even appear in the main draw, then played seeds. So, not unusual at all.

I take it you don't like the Challenge Cup ?

 

Trying to differentiate between qualifiers in Tennis and the early rounds of the Challenge Cup is really splitting hairs. They are basically the same.

[Roughyed Rats]

2 hours ago, Ellandback said:

I - as a Siddal supporter - have mixed feelings on this one. On one side you know your team is going to get thumped and there is no chance whatsoever of a football style 'giant killing' On the other, it is a fantastic day for officials, players and supporters of the community club, not least financially. 

Playing Wakefield last year was arguably Siddal's biggest ever match, a crowd of 1,500 gave gate receipts that the club could only dream of otherwise and we did hold them close until half time before being blown away in the second 40 minutes. My understanding was that Siddal were excellent hosts and Wakefield equally excellent visitors.

We need to beat Midlands Hurricanes first - and we may be in with a small shout there - but a home game against Salford will undoubtedly be the biggest in Siddals' history and, for me, will make up for getting frostbite at Hammersmith Hills Hoists.

If you get through, Wakefield have a larger away following than Salford anyway. Good luck.

[Just Browny]

11 minutes ago, dkw said:

So you want an open draw where Sl teams can come in the first round, possibly against amateurs, but also you dont like that amateur teams can be drawn againt SL teams in the 3rd round? Just ridiculous contradictory nonsense from you to use to knock the British RL game

We can learn many things from our antipodean friends; I'm surprised that they think they can teach us about knock out competitions.

Edited January 15 by Just Browny

[KiwiRL]

1 minute ago, Damien said:

 

 

11 minutes ago, dkw said:

So you want an open draw where Sl teams can come in the first round, possibly against amateurs, but also you dont like that amateur teams can be drawn againt SL teams in the 3rd round? Just ridiculous contradictory nonsense from you to use to knock the British RL game

 

I don't want pro teams playing amateur teams at all. Especially in a contact sport. It's pointless. 

But hey, if you enjoy the local fire brigade getting 60 put them on by a super league team going half-assed all power to you. 

[KiwiRL]

2 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

We can learn many things from our antipodean friends; I'm surprised that they think they can teach us about knock out competitions.

Nah just keep doing what you're doing, it's obviously working wonders for British league. 

 

[Padge]

1 hour ago, KiwiRL said:

Does Novak get to skip through the opening 5 rounds of Wimbledon and play against an amateur en route to the title? 

 

Sounds to me like you don't know how Wimbledon tennis works.

The tournament begins with the qualifying rounds, where players who are not already guaranteed a spot in the main draw compete for a chance to play in the tournament proper. 

In terms of players, the tournament typically features the top players in the world, including current and former Grand Slam champions. These players are divided into two groups: the seeded players and the unseeded players. Seeded players are considered to be the top players in the tournament and are given preferential treatment in the draw, while unseeded players are considered to be lower-ranked players and are drawn against seeded players in the early rounds of the tournament.

The seeding ensures that the highest ranked players don’t knock each other out in the early rounds and can build towards a thrilling finale.

Lifted from this site: https://www.humphreysofhenley.co.uk/faqs/how-does-wimbledon-work/

 

[KiwiRL]

20 minutes ago, Padge said:

Sounds to me like you don't know how Wimbledon tennis works.

The tournament begins with the qualifying rounds, where players who are not already guaranteed a spot in the main draw compete for a chance to play in the tournament proper. 

In terms of players, the tournament typically features the top players in the world, including current and former Grand Slam champions. These players are divided into two groups: the seeded players and the unseeded players. Seeded players are considered to be the top players in the tournament and are given preferential treatment in the draw, while unseeded players are considered to be lower-ranked players and are drawn against seeded players in the early rounds of the tournament.

The seeding ensures that the highest ranked players don’t knock each other out in the early rounds and can build towards a thrilling finale.

Lifted from this site: https://www.humphreysofhenley.co.uk/faqs/how-does-wimbledon-work/

 

Seems like you don't read replies, so again.

Some key differences.

1. The qualifiers are still pro players.

2. The qualifying tournaments aren't considered the opening rounds of Majors. Do wins in those tournaments count against players major records? 

3. Unseeded players unlike their rugby league equivalents actually have a chance of winning in tennis Majors.

Seeded players do get knocked out early often, that's a huge difference. 

But as I said before, if you enjoy one sided mismatches in a brutal contact sport all power to you. 

 

 

Edited January 15 by KiwiRL

[Damien]

29 minutes ago, KiwiRL said:

Nah just keep doing what you're doing, it's obviously working wonders for British league. 

 

Of all the issues in British Rugby League this certainly isn't a cause of any of them.

[KiwiRL]

3 minutes ago, Damien said:

Of all the issues in British Rugby League this certainly isn't a cause of any of them.

The final is always a great occasion, no argument. 

But the lead up rounds contribute to fixture burnout which I'd argue is a huge issue in UK rugby league.

The poor attendances certainly don't help the games perception (final aside).

And I can see it doesn't bother any of you, but amateur v semi pro, semi pro v pro, and god forbid amateur v pro games are mostly terrible adverts for rugby league as a product imo.

 

 

12 minutes ago, KiwiRL said:

 

 

 

 

 

[Padge]

25 minutes ago, KiwiRL said:

Seems like you don't read replies, so again.

Some key differences.

1. The qualifiers are still pro players.

2. The qualifying tournaments aren't considered the opening rounds of Majors. Do wins in those tournaments count against players major records? No.

3. Unseeded players unlike their rugby league equivalents actually have a chance of winning in tennis Majors.

But as I said before, if you enjoy one sided mismatches in a brutal contact sport all power to you. 

 

 

Your opening argument was the CC draw was convoluted unlike tennis, you have been proven wrong on that so are now changing your argument.

To play in the Wimbledon Championship players must have an LTA Advantage membership number (RL equivalent you must be a member or of the RFL either directly as an associate or represented by an associate i.e BARLA)  and an ITF World Tennis Number (Ranking), (RL equivalent you must play in an RFL recognised league competition, this gives your ranking i.e. SL, championship etc, BARLA. Tennis rankings are used to ensure top players are kept apart until the final stages of the competition (sound familiar).

Who plays who and where in the CC early stages is based on; you must be a member and then where you sit in the rankings. Exactly the same as Tennis.

Edited January 15 by Padge

[KiwiRL]

6 minutes ago, Padge said:

Your opening argument was the CC draw was convoluted unlike tennis, you have been proven wrong on that so are now changing your argument.

 

The draw at a major isn't convoluted at all. It's a straight knock out bracket set from rd 1 to the final. Yes it's seeded but the full bracket is viewable from rd 1.

There's some complication in how a small portion of players have to qualify to get into the major but the actual major itself is simply every qualified player playing knockout tennis from rd 1. 

Or did Novak or Fed get to come in to a Major in the round of 16 and i missed it?

 

 

[Barley Mow]

I wasn't a fan of seeding the draw, but on reflection I think they have seeded the wrong round.

If they had done round 2 instead (Championship clubs ranked 1-12 as the SL clubs were in yesterday's draw) then we would get amateur clubs with a decent day at/hosting Championship teams (including some big names - Bradford, Widnes, Halifax, etc) but most if not all amateur clubs filtered out before round 3 (when SL teams enter).

Round 3 would then be unseeded giving the semi-pro teams their potential 'big day' against SL opposition - but with an open draw allowing none SL teams to be drawn against one another meaning some (the stronger) would progress to later rounds to give interesting variation from SL v SL teams later in the competition.

Edited January 15 by Barley Mow

[Griff]

1 minute ago, KiwiRL said:

The draw at a major isn't convoluted at all. It's a straight knock out bracket set from rd 1 to the final. Yes it's seeded but the full bracket is viewable from rd 1.

More comparisons between apples and oranges.

The Wimbledon draw is highly seeded.  Seeds 1 and 2 can't meet until the final, seeds 1-4 can't meet until the semifinal, seeds 1-8 can't meet until the quarter final etc etc.

The reason that you can see the full bracket at the start of the tournament is that the whole thing takes place in a fortnight. For the Challenge Cup, the rounds are scheduled to be a fortnight apart (albeit it doesn't always work that way).

 

[Griff]

Just now, Barley Mow said:

I wasn't a fan of seeding the draw, but on reflection I think they have seeded the wrong round.

To be honest, I would have preferred it if the Superleague clubs were at home.  Under this system, the chances of an away day to a ground your club rarely visits are all but eliminated.

[JonM]

49 minutes ago, KiwiRL said:

And I can see it doesn't bother any of you, but amateur v semi pro, semi pro v pro, and god forbid amateur v pro games are mostly terrible adverts for rugby league as a product imo.

Nah. Widnes v West Warriors in 2023 was one of the most enjoyable afternoons of the season for me. Likewise seeing Siddal going into HT with the score at 12-6 against Wakefield last year sticks in the mind. I remember Saints fans on here talking about how much they'd enjoyed their trip to Whitehaven in 2022.

Edited January 15 by JonM

[JonM]

6 minutes ago, Griff said:

To be honest, I would have preferred it if the Superleague clubs were at home.  Under this system, the chances of an away day to a ground your club rarely visits are all but eliminated.

For you and I perhaps, but most RL fans support a SL team and will get exactly this - an away day at a ground they rarely/ never visit.

[dkw]

1 hour ago, KiwiRL said:

 

 

I don't want pro teams playing amateur teams at all. Especially in a contact sport. It's pointless. 

But hey, if you enjoy the local fire brigade getting 60 put them on by a super league team going half-assed all power to you. 

I bet every single amateur player in the country would love a game against SL teams, the vast majority would love to see their amateur team against an SL team, and every single person involved in financials at an amateur team would love a tie versus an SL team. 

Also, why feel the need to disparage the amateur teams that have gotten though, they arent the local fire brigade teams are they, your just embarrassing yourself now.

Edited January 15 by dkw

[Jill Halfpenny fan]

6 minutes ago, JonM said:

Nah. Widnes v West Warriors in 2023 was one of the most enjoyable afternoons of the season for me. Likewise seeing Siddal going into HT with the score at 12-6 against Wakefield last year sticks in the mind. I remember Saints fans on here talking about how much they'd enjoyed their trip to Whitehaven in 2022.

Wests certainly seemed to enjoy themselves, probably the only disappointing thing was Wests didn't host it as per the draw.

[Padge]

21 minutes ago, KiwiRL said:

The draw at a major isn't convoluted at all. It's a straight knock out bracket set from rd 1 to the final. Yes it's seeded but the full bracket is viewable from rd 1.

There's some complication in how a small portion of players have to qualify to get into the major but the actual major itself is simply every qualified player playing knockout tennis from rd 1. 

Or did Novak or Fed get to come in to a Major in the round of 16 and i missed it?

 

 

If you are a lower ranked player you have to earn (by winning games against players (teams) of a similar level) the right to have a chance of playing the highest ranked players (teams) and just like this years CC the top players (teams) are seeded to avoid each other in the early rounds.

Are you being deliberately thick.

[KiwiRL]

1 minute ago, dkw said:

I bet every single amateur player in the country would love a game against SL teams, the vast majority would love to see their amateur team against an SL team, and every single person involved in financials at an amateur team would love a tie versus an SL team. 

Also, why feel the need to disparage the amateur teams that have gotten though, they arent the local fire brigade teams are they, your just embarrassing yourself now.

I am an amateur rugby league player. Do I want my team to play against the Warriors? No, because it would be a complete waste of everyone's time just so I could say I got pantsed by pros. No , what else was going to happen.

 

[KiwiRL]

20 minutes ago, KiwiRL said:

 

 

 

23 minutes ago, Padge said:

If you are a lower ranked player you have to earn (by winning games against players (teams) of a similar level) the right to have a chance of playing the highest ranked players (teams) and just like this years CC the top players (teams) are seeded to avoid each other in the early rounds.

Are you being deliberately thick.

Then just call the opening rounds a challenge cup qualifying tourney then ffs. 

 

20 minutes ago, KiwiRL said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 15 by KiwiRL

[Wellsy4HullFC]

30 minutes ago, Griff said:

To be honest, I would have preferred it if the Superleague clubs were at home.  Under this system, the chances of an away day to a ground your club rarely visits are all but eliminated.

I prefer it this way for 2 reasons. 

1) The exact reason you state, but the opposite POV. We often see repeat games at home or against other SL opposition in the CC. 

2) The home venue will likely be more full than usual (and therefore look more attractive and easy for a positive spin) than if the other way around (emptier, less of an event, easy negativity).

Also gives a bit of a leg-up to the lower league sides playing at home, so bigger chance of an upset I guess. 

 

Where it's gone wrong is that the 2nd round should probably have been seeded too.

Would probably also make sense to have the SL winners & CC winners to get a bye so there's a few weekend for the WCC*. Have them play their SL opener the same weekend as the cup in a charity shield style event. I hate the waiting for someone to be knocked out route to playing the postponed fixture. 

*Not an issue this year obviously, but for future reference. 

 

I think this year's is a huge improvement to my interest in the competition, and judging by others discussing it, them too.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

10 minutes ago, KiwiRL said:

 

Then just call the opening rounds a challenge cup qualifying tourney then ffs. 

Once you've got 

 

 

 

 

 

So if Round 3 was called Round 1, would that make it ok with you then?