RL Dark Arts

[RayCee]

There is a book named Football Dark Arts discussing how to gain an advantage with what could be called unsporting tactics. All sports seem to have them.

In RL what would be considered dark arts and is it a problem? A player staying down after a tackle feigning an injury in the hope of getting a penalty I would class as one. If it gives a team an advantage then many would say why not?

[The Phantom Horseman]

There was a spate of incidents a year ir two ago where the acting half back deliberately passed the ball straight at a retreating or stationary defender to try and win a penalty, but a change to the rules wording seemed to get rid of that as I recall.

In terms of being difficult to officiate, the attacking player at the PTB deliberately placing the ball on or next to the defender's foot to ensure "interference" is another example.

When you watch a player regularly at your own club you can sometimes see other examples. The first couple of years that Misi Taulapapa was at Fev, when he was tackled he would produce an exaggerated struggle to get to his feet and then the ball would mysteriously pop free, and for those 2 years it almost always resulted in a penalty...then overnight it was almost as if the refs had this pointed out to them and from then on it was then invariably deemed a knock on.

[sam4731]

I vaguely remember an incident when (I think) Chris Hill threw himself onto his neck in the process of being tackled to get a penalty for a dangerous tackle.

[Cumbrian Fanatic]

I do think Rugby League is better than most sports at tweaking the rules or changing the interpretation of them to negate the dark arts as they emerge, that's why many of them don't last too long.

[HawkMan]

15 minutes ago, Cumbrian Fanatic said:

I do think Rugby League is better than most sports at tweaking the rules or changing the interpretation of them to negate the dark arts as they emerge, that's why many of them don't last too long.

That's true,  but is it helpful to the sport? Football doesn't particularly want to eradicate dark arts. I've often thought if League had more dark arts, at least pushing the boundaries of the rules as far as possible it would lead to controversies, but that generates interest. People may be horrified at the thought but perhaps the game is too nicey nicey as far as playing by the rules. A bit of skullduggery might be no bad thing.

Edited December 24, 2024 by HawkMan

[RayCee]

45 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

That's true,  but is it helpful to the sport? Football doesn't particularly want to eradicate dark arts. I've often thought if League had more dark arts, at least pushing the boundaries of the rules as far as possible it would lead to controversies, but that generates interest. People may be horrified at the thought but perhaps the game is too nicey nicey as far as playing by the rules. A bit of skullduggery might be no bad thing.

Interesting angle. Not one that would pique my interest but I'm sure some do like to see rules pushed to the limit.

[HawkMan]

3 minutes ago, RayCee said:

Interesting angle. Not one that would pique my interest but I'm sure some do like to see rules pushed to the limit.

I think I'm right in saying you're a football fan, do you mind the rules pushed there? If you've ever seen Ref Watch on Sky with Dermott Gallagher you'll notice the controversies they discuss, often by players reacting to non existent fouls on their person. I don't mind it, it's all part of the show,  the fun, so long as my team doesn't suffer!

League shouldn't encourage bad behaviour by players,  but a bit more leniency could have some benefits. What's the saying?. All publicity is good...up to a point.

[RayCee]

2 hours ago, HawkMan said:

I think I'm right in saying you're a football fan, do you mind the rules pushed there? If you've ever seen Ref Watch on Sky with Dermott Gallagher you'll notice the controversies they discuss, often by players reacting to non existent fouls on their person. I don't mind it, it's all part of the show,  the fun, so long as my team doesn't suffer!

League shouldn't encourage bad behaviour by players,  but a bit more leniency could have some benefits. What's the saying?. All publicity is good...up to a point.

I don't see those shows you mentioned as I live in NZ. Yes, I follow football and for example going down in the penalty box for the slightest contact is part of the modern game. If the powers that be allow it then I go along with it although I don't think it's in the spirit of good sportsmanship. Mind you, that went out long ago.

The advantage football has is that it's so popular that nothing will stop people watching it, even if they get frustrated with the dark arts or VAR or even the way it's governed.  

I like that RL is less tolerant of players using gamesmanship to gain an advantage. 

[warriors 95]

I thought I was seeing double what with this thread and the “RL at the darts” thread.

Obviously it’s not RL but the famous or infamous act was the bloodbin gate scandal a few years ago in a RU  game with the fake blood capsules.

Edited December 25, 2024 by warriors 95

[Padge]

In RL coaches are always looking for ways to slow down the opposition, especially at the PTB, since the game prides itself and being fast and free flowing this goes in the face of what the game's about.

Most tweaks to laws involve stopping players slowing the game down, hence things like the shot clock.

[Bedfordshire Bronco]

14 hours ago, RayCee said:

There is a book named Football Dark Arts discussing how to gain an advantage with what could be called unsporting tactics. All sports seem to have them.

In RL what would be considered dark arts and is it a problem? A player staying down after a tackle feigning an injury in the hope of getting a penalty I would class as one. If it gives a team an advantage then many would say why not?

Ours version would be called 

'Jake O'Conor - a practical guide to playing Rugby League'

Edited December 25, 2024 by Bedfordshire Bronco

[Mark S]

The ball suddenly going missing when the home team had conceded a drop out. It took out any momentum the attacking team had as well as giving the defending team a breather. 

[OMEGA]

The 1986 Touring Australians brought in the ‘Gang Tackle’ during which they would hold up the attacking player so that other defenders could come in with the shoulder into the torso of the ball carrier.

 

[Andy JG]

I once watched John Cogger (Aussie ex Runcorn and Oldham) spend 80 minutes getting penalties by holding onto the tackler who was then penalised for lying on.  

[BadlyOverdrawnBoy]

I'd say crusher tackle and hip-drop are the biggest penalty earners these days. Very few of them are genuine 

[Coggo]

Defensive interference at the ruck to effect a knock-on by the attacker playing the ball. 

[RayCee]

When making a defensive misread near your own tryline, then pretending that you were obstructed.

[Pigeon Lofter]

Defensive marker pushing down on the head of the opponent as he starts to heel the ball backwards at the PTB. Why it's not penalised every time is beyond me. If the attacking player tries to propel himself forward at the PTB and interfere with the marker, then he also should be penalised. The PTB should be a clean restart procedure, anyone preventing it taking place smoothly is interfering with that.

[Just Browny]

Most 'dark arts' make the game uglier, e.g. holding down the defender, pretending the tackler is holding you down, stealing the ball etc. The fewer the better really.

However, there's generally a sort of reversion to the mean with any of the skullduggery that wins a penalty as refs generally cotton on eventually. 

[Sports Prophet]

I think “dark arts” is a very pompous terminology, which is somehow to imply such dubbed tactics are forms of wit incomprehensible to the layman without exception. I’ve only ever heard it referred to by RU supporters for acts in the scrum, ruck and maul, all pieces which I am definitely the layman.

What many have described above however are not really what I would describe as “dark art” acts, but more acts of foul or unsportsmanlike behaviour. 

If I were to try and consider “dark arts” of league, I would be inclined to think of deliberately kicking the ball dead on the last tackle where you were better positioned to set up a great defensive set of six from the restart rather than possibly scoring.

Or the old classic striking at the ball from dummy half.

Both of these are (were) very legitimate pieces of play within the rules of the game which were acts of wit over acts of skullduggery.

[warriors 95]

Turning players onto their backs to slow down the play-the-ball.

tight fitting jerseys to make it harder to grab hold of.

attacking player holding defender at play-the-ball to win a penalty.

constantly in the ref’s ear and questioning every decision. 

[RayCee]

On 25/12/2024 at 08:18, RayCee said:

There is a book named Football Dark Arts discussing how to gain an advantage with what could be called unsporting tactics. 

1 hour ago, Sports Prophet said:

What many have described above however are not really what I would describe as “dark art” acts, but more acts of foul or unsportsmanlike behaviour. 

You may not like the term but the definition at the outset matches your description nicely. 

[Rene_Artois]

On 24/12/2024 at 19:47, The Phantom Horseman said:

 

When you watch a player regularly at your own club you can sometimes see other examples. The first couple of years that Misi Taulapapa was at Fev, when he was tackled he would produce an exaggerated struggle to get to his feet and then the ball would mysteriously pop free, and for those 2 years it almost always resulted in a penalty...then overnight it was almost as if the refs had this pointed out to them and from then on it was then invariably deemed a knock on.

 

[Rene_Artois]

I can assure you that Misi was just as good at this with us. One thing I'd like to know is did Briscoe attract as many penalties for high tackles with Fev? Averages about 2 a game for Dons.

[The Phantom Horseman]

1 hour ago, Rene_Artois said:

I can assure you that Misi was just as good at this with us. One thing I'd like to know is did Briscoe attract as many penalties for high tackles with Fev? Averages about 2 a game for Dons.

Yes he did. Has a habit of dropping down a little just as he meets the tackle, which us brave if not a little foolhardy. He was a tremendous valuable player for Fev and of course that that annus mirabilis in ( I think) 2018 when he scored in about 19 consecutive games. Luke has always been another who wins penalties around the ruck too, though he does commit the odd knock on in his rush to play the ball. 

Edited December 26, 2024 by The Phantom Horseman