Shocking that our sport has no pro club in Manchester

[The Daddy]

15 minutes ago, jroyales said:

There isn't one in Liverpool!

Equally as shocking 

[sam4731]

Why rebrand? Let's take games on the road again. Much better than magic anyway.

[JohnM]

Magic IS on the road, is it not? ALL the SL teams are visitors to an area with no SL presence.

[JohnM]

There really is no interest at any meaningful level of pro rugby league in the Manchester urban area. Broughton Rangers/ Belle Vue etc long gone through lack of support. Despite the sucesses of the early 1960s, Swinton were struggling for years. Despite the temporary respite of some years ago, Salford have struggled for well over half a century . Oldham may be resurgent but had struggled for years, though it's more connected to west Yorks than to Manchester conurbation. Four years at Oldham College 1964 1968 and hardly anyone knew of the club even then.

Successive and frequent changes in the RFL have done nothing to change the situation.

Edited March 15 by JohnM

[Roughyed Rats]

1 hour ago, The Daddy said:

Can you read bro?

Clearly not. Please do point me to where it states that.

[Click]

56 minutes ago, Roughyed Rats said:

Clearly not. Please do point me to where it states that.

"The Rangers board have met with resistance over the past few years that have blocked their attempts to bring professional rugby league to the centre of the city.

They were told their best route in would be to either merge or takeover one of the existing Greater Manchester clubs, such as Oldham or Swinton.

Understandably not keen to go down that road, Rangers instead made an offer to take over the Hemel licence but were knocked back due to the presence of the other clubs around them."

There, I am assuming.

[The Art of Hand and Foot]

3 hours ago, jroyales said:

There isn't one in Liverpool!

You beat me to it. It could be argued that it is just as shocking, if not more so, that there isn't a team in Liverpool. Afterall one end of the M62 is covered, surely it's crying out to complete the motorway!? Once done we could look at spreading along the M6 and the M1!?

[Eddie]

3 hours ago, Pie tries said:

Swinton re-branding as Manchester and moving to the Etihad campus would be far better than than simply existing in Sale.

Better for who?

[Eddie]

3 hours ago, The Daddy said:

Equally as shocking 

It’s not, if you’d ever lived in Liverpool you wouldn’t be shocked that there isn’t a professional rugby league club. 

[Celtic Roosters]

6 hours ago, Pie tries said:

Swinton re-branding as Manchester and moving to the Etihad campus would be far better than than simply existing in Sale.

The last Swinton chairman that tried to change the name to Manchester was hounded out of the club. I watch all Swinton home games. Not many current fans would follow them if they re-branded as Manchester.

[Pie tries]

2 hours ago, Celtic Roosters said:

The last Swinton chairman that tried to change the name to Manchester was hounded out of the club. I watch all Swinton home games. Not many current fans would follow them if they re-branded as Manchester.

That’s that then. 500 fans tops, way out of area…

I like Swinton, like that they try and keep going without drama. Women’s team too. But…

Edited March 15 by Pie tries

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

I love how so many still have the belief that because all (well the vast majority) on here think that RL is TGG everyone else does too.....

[RP London]

8 hours ago, sam4731 said:

Why rebrand? Let's take games on the road again. Much better than magic anyway.

Yes games on the road, if we have loop fixture that's how to make them work... No not much better than magic 

[RP London]

42 minutes ago, Pie tries said:

That’s that then. 500 fans tops, way out of area…

I like Swinton, like that they try and keep going without drama. Women’s team too. But…

Devils advocate;

So how many do you lose? (Not many in the grand scheme)

How many could be gained (don't know, whats the appetite in Manchester etc)

Many look at what we lose.few seem to look at what we gain

(As per devils advocate, this may be the wrong example but IMHO we look at what we could lose rather than what we could gain far too much). 

Blue ocean thinking would be nice but RL just looks at red ocean 

[thecoffeeman]

If you don't mind me joining in, I'd like to tell you the story behind one half of the Manchester rugby league saga. 

In late 2008 I was working for the RFL in a consultancy capacity along with some of their commercial partners. 

I was approached by them to help them set up a club in Manchester and I agreed.

I asked the RFL at the time which would be the easiest route, an adult team or a children's team. My preference would have been for a children's team but I was advised that adult team would be the easiest route. 

So along with three other very capable and knowledgeable people we set up Mancunians RL and joined the Rugby League Conference. 

We had a lot of success, winning a decent amount of silverware, and created some fantastic partnerships, most notably with the City Council the two Universities and crucially many of the local rugby union clubs. 

We also had a great relationship, or so I thought, with the RFL.

We had several meetings with Steve Ferres, who was working for the RFL at the time with a view to joining an expanded Division 3. 

Our relationship manager at the RFL was the local RFL development manager who I had, or so I thought, a good relationship with.

Despite the background of the new Tory government and austerity measures, we raised approximately £50,000 from agencies such as Manchester city council, to fund a full-time member of coaching staff in partnership with the Manchester College. 

In February 2013 I sat down with the RFL relationship manager and took him through our business plan, our development strategy, our volunteer strategy, everything that I had presented to the RFL in our bid to join Division 3. 

One week later Manchester Rangers appeared on the scene, with the same Development Manager who I had met with just days before, as one of their leading administrators. 

Needless to say everyone at Mancunians was incredulous that this was allowed to happen but our formal complaints to the RFL fell on deaf ears. 

We were even advised by the RFL that they had encouraged the new club to set up as they, in the words of one of the RFL development managers (who is actually still in post) was that they wanted to create a Man Utd vs Man city scenario. I obviously advised them that they were crazy to think that this would work. 

Within weeks Mancunians had lost approximately 50% of our volunteers, half of our team of players and those who remained were completely demoralised. 

On speaking to our key partners, who the new team had obviously approached, all of them advised us that the obviously had to support both teams, but off the record told us that there were concerned at the level of duplication. 

As @Amber Avengermentioned we had a considerable community focus at the time with pockets of activity in several areas of Manchester with regular touch rugby, walking rugby, wheelchair rugby and even some women's activity at one point. 

Over the next few years we battled on and the even grew our junior section despite the duplication and even interference, but finally hoisted the white flag when the pandemic arrived five years ago. 

I still work in professional sport and still work closely with many of the agencies mentioned above, apart from the RFL. I still work with the same people I mentioned above and we still talk about the crazy scenario which was created by the RFL and we are unanimous in concluding that rugby league is not likely have a presence in the city of Manchester for the generation to come. 

The Manchester Rangers thing was just a side show. Even people at the council knew and said that they were aware that's it was smoke and mirrors and no one was really surprised when they gave it up.

So sadly this is the background to why Manchester doesn't have a Rugby League club. Mancunians were formed in 2009 and lasted until 2020, the club was created to represent the Manchester community and we did that successfully for 11 fantastic years. The same cannot be said of Manchester Rangers, who along with the RFL ruined all the fantastic relationships that the sport (not me or Mancunians, I hasten to add) had built. 

I have been approached in the last couple of years to help create another club but as I have had my fingers burnt too many times with the sport of Rugby League, I said a very polite but firm no.

Edited March 15 by thecoffeeman

[Anita Bath]

9 hours ago, JohnM said:

Magic IS on the road, is it not? ALL the SL teams are visitors to an area with no SL presence.

It wasnt last season

[Celtic Roosters]

10 hours ago, Pie tries said:

That’s that then. 500 fans tops, way out of area…

I like Swinton, like that they try and keep going without drama. Women’s team too. But…

That's Then? What - 2 years ago. If Swinton is not in the name they will lose more fans than the gain by re-branding as Manchester.

[Celtic Roosters]

9 hours ago, RP London said:

Devils advocate;

So how many do you lose? (Not many in the grand scheme)

How many could be gained (don't know, whats the appetite in Manchester etc)

Many look at what we lose.few seem to look at what we gain

(As per devils advocate, this may be the wrong example but IMHO we look at what we could lose rather than what we could gain far too much). 

Blue ocean thinking would be nice but RL just looks at red ocean 

They don't watch RL in Salford so there is no chance in Manchester. Salford people don't even watch Salford City FC. There are more people in the pubs watching United and City at weekends than there are watching local sport. My Son was the first mascot of Manchester Knights when they launched in a blaze of glory, on TV etc, but it didn't take long for them to wither and die. I've been involved in local amateur clubs for decades and helped launch a Swinton team in 1987. it's tough even trying to run a amateur side in the Salford/Manchester area. Tameside Borough and Bury Broncos gave it a good go but it didn't work out.

[Joe 90]

13 hours ago, Celtic Roosters said:

The last Swinton chairman that tried to change the name to Manchester was hounded out of the club. I watch all Swinton home games. Not many current fans would follow them if they re-branded as Manchester.

I don't think he was '' hounded out of the club '' he just cut his losses and left Swinton to slowly decline from where he had taken them. Rochdale are now building a club from the roots up and benefitting from his vision. A massive opportunity lost by the Swinton club.

[daz39]

On 14/03/2025 at 12:00, Gooleboy said:

Hands up if you remember Ottawa!

Excellent, but you missed an N off 

[RP London]

1 hour ago, Celtic Roosters said:

They don't watch RL in Salford so there is no chance in Manchester. Salford people don't even watch Salford City FC. There are more people in the pubs watching United and City at weekends than there are watching local sport. My Son was the first mascot of Manchester Knights when they launched in a blaze of glory, on TV etc, but it didn't take long for them to wither and die. I've been involved in local amateur clubs for decades and helped launch a Swinton team in 1987. it's tough even trying to run a amateur side in the Salford/Manchester area. Tameside Borough and Bury Broncos gave it a good go but it didn't work out.

Thanks for this, I remember playing Manchester Knights when I was at South London Storm.

One thing though there is a big difference between running an amateur side and a pro one, especially if we're just looking at a rebrand of a club already there. 

If we were to go from, for example, 3,000 to 5,000 because of a rebrand and increased coverage etc then it would be worth it. If it went from 3 to 3 1/2 then maybe not. 

Edited March 16 by RP London

[JohnM]

Swinton born and bred, moved away in 1968, I recently made contact with one of a group of 5 of us who were regulars at Station Road in the late 1950s early 1960s.  We're now down to four and only two live in the Swinton area. Of the two, who still follows rugby league at all, never mind Swinton? None. In fact, the grandson of one of us plays rugby union for Stockport Rugby Union club.

To me, that illustrates the difficulty of reviving old clubs and the creation of new ones.  

Congratulations and praise is due to those stalwarts who day after day, week after week, season after season, struggle to keep clubs like Swinton and Salford going. Medals deserved and it can't do much for their motivation to be told by the likes of me that hey're fighting a downhill battle , never mind an uphill one.   

Of course, things have changed over the last "n" years, but to me, Oldham and Rochdale are significantly different places to the Manchester urban area, socially, culturally, demographically etc. 

 

Edited March 16 by JohnM

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Joe 90 said:

I don't think he was '' hounded out of the club '' he just cut his losses and left Swinton to slowly decline from where he had taken them. Rochdale are now building a club from the roots up and benefitting from his vision. A massive opportunity lost by the Swinton club.

Wouldn’t you describe having your car stolen and being threatened and abused as hounding out? https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/swinton-chairman-lifts-lid-abuse-20065313.amp

Edited March 16 by Eddie

[The Phantom Horseman]

34 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Wouldn’t you describe having your car stolen and being threatened and abused as hounding out? https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/swinton-chairman-lifts-lid-abuse-20065313.amp

Just on a point of semantics, the way you have phrased that makes it sound like he had the car stolen as part of the hounding-out process, whereas it sounds like what he was complaining about was people saying it served him right (which is obviously very poor behaviour too).

[The Art of Hand and Foot]

12 hours ago, thecoffeeman said:

If you don't mind me joining in, I'd like to tell you the story behind one half of the Manchester rugby league saga. 

In late 2008 I was working for the RFL in a consultancy capacity along with some of their commercial partners. 

I was approached by them to help them set up a club in Manchester and I agreed.

I asked the RFL at the time which would be the easiest route, an adult team or a children's team. My preference would have been for a children's team but I was advised that adult team would be the easiest route. 

So along with three other very capable and knowledgeable people we set up Mancunians RL and joined the Rugby League Conference. 

We had a lot of success, winning a decent amount of silverware, and created some fantastic partnerships, most notably with the City Council the two Universities and crucially many of the local rugby union clubs. 

We also had a great relationship, or so I thought, with the RFL.

We had several meetings with Steve Ferres, who was working for the RFL at the time with a view to joining an expanded Division 3. 

Our relationship manager at the RFL was the local RFL development manager who I had, or so I thought, a good relationship with.

Despite the background of the new Tory government and austerity measures, we raised approximately £50,000 from agencies such as Manchester city council, to fund a full-time member of coaching staff in partnership with the Manchester College. 

In February 2013 I sat down with the RFL relationship manager and took him through our business plan, our development strategy, our volunteer strategy, everything that I had presented to the RFL in our bid to join Division 3. 

One week later Manchester Rangers appeared on the scene, with the same Development Manager who I had met with just days before, as one of their leading administrators. 

Needless to say everyone at Mancunians was incredulous that this was allowed to happen but our formal complaints to the RFL fell on deaf ears. 

We were even advised by the RFL that they had encouraged the new club to set up as they, in the words of one of the RFL development managers (who is actually still in post) was that they wanted to create a Man Utd vs Man city scenario. I obviously advised them that they were crazy to think that this would work. 

Within weeks Mancunians had lost approximately 50% of our volunteers, half of our team of players and those who remained were completely demoralised. 

On speaking to our key partners, who the new team had obviously approached, all of them advised us that the obviously had to support both teams, but off the record told us that there were concerned at the level of duplication. 

As @Amber Avengermentioned we had a considerable community focus at the time with pockets of activity in several areas of Manchester with regular touch rugby, walking rugby, wheelchair rugby and even some women's activity at one point. 

Over the next few years we battled on and the even grew our junior section despite the duplication and even interference, but finally hoisted the white flag when the pandemic arrived five years ago. 

I still work in professional sport and still work closely with many of the agencies mentioned above, apart from the RFL. I still work with the same people I mentioned above and we still talk about the crazy scenario which was created by the RFL and we are unanimous in concluding that rugby league is not likely have a presence in the city of Manchester for the generation to come. 

The Manchester Rangers thing was just a side show. Even people at the council knew and said that they were aware that's it was smoke and mirrors and no one was really surprised when they gave it up.

So sadly this is the background to why Manchester doesn't have a Rugby League club. Mancunians were formed in 2009 and lasted until 2020, the club was created to represent the Manchester community and we did that successfully for 11 fantastic years. The same cannot be said of Manchester Rangers, who along with the RFL ruined all the fantastic relationships that the sport (not me or Mancunians, I hasten to add) had built. 

I have been approached in the last couple of years to help create another club but as I have had my fingers burnt too many times with the sport of Rugby League, I said a very polite but firm no.

A sad tale of ineptitude at the RFL. Why am I not surprised!? BTW, where exactly where the mancunians based?