Shocking that our sport has no pro club in Manchester

[The Daddy]

13 hours ago, thecoffeeman said:

If you don't mind me joining in, I'd like to tell you the story behind one half of the Manchester rugby league saga. 

In late 2008 I was working for the RFL in a consultancy capacity along with some of their commercial partners. 

I was approached by them to help them set up a club in Manchester and I agreed.

I asked the RFL at the time which would be the easiest route, an adult team or a children's team. My preference would have been for a children's team but I was advised that adult team would be the easiest route. 

So along with three other very capable and knowledgeable people we set up Mancunians RL and joined the Rugby League Conference. 

We had a lot of success, winning a decent amount of silverware, and created some fantastic partnerships, most notably with the City Council the two Universities and crucially many of the local rugby union clubs. 

We also had a great relationship, or so I thought, with the RFL.

We had several meetings with Steve Ferres, who was working for the RFL at the time with a view to joining an expanded Division 3. 

Our relationship manager at the RFL was the local RFL development manager who I had, or so I thought, a good relationship with.

Despite the background of the new Tory government and austerity measures, we raised approximately £50,000 from agencies such as Manchester city council, to fund a full-time member of coaching staff in partnership with the Manchester College. 

In February 2013 I sat down with the RFL relationship manager and took him through our business plan, our development strategy, our volunteer strategy, everything that I had presented to the RFL in our bid to join Division 3. 

One week later Manchester Rangers appeared on the scene, with the same Development Manager who I had met with just days before, as one of their leading administrators. 

Needless to say everyone at Mancunians was incredulous that this was allowed to happen but our formal complaints to the RFL fell on deaf ears. 

We were even advised by the RFL that they had encouraged the new club to set up as they, in the words of one of the RFL development managers (who is actually still in post) was that they wanted to create a Man Utd vs Man city scenario. I obviously advised them that they were crazy to think that this would work. 

Within weeks Mancunians had lost approximately 50% of our volunteers, half of our team of players and those who remained were completely demoralised. 

On speaking to our key partners, who the new team had obviously approached, all of them advised us that the obviously had to support both teams, but off the record told us that there were concerned at the level of duplication. 

As @Amber Avengermentioned we had a considerable community focus at the time with pockets of activity in several areas of Manchester with regular touch rugby, walking rugby, wheelchair rugby and even some women's activity at one point. 

Over the next few years we battled on and the even grew our junior section despite the duplication and even interference, but finally hoisted the white flag when the pandemic arrived five years ago. 

I still work in professional sport and still work closely with many of the agencies mentioned above, apart from the RFL. I still work with the same people I mentioned above and we still talk about the crazy scenario which was created by the RFL and we are unanimous in concluding that rugby league is not likely have a presence in the city of Manchester for the generation to come. 

The Manchester Rangers thing was just a side show. Even people at the council knew and said that they were aware that's it was smoke and mirrors and no one was really surprised when they gave it up.

So sadly this is the background to why Manchester doesn't have a Rugby League club. Mancunians were formed in 2009 and lasted until 2020, the club was created to represent the Manchester community and we did that successfully for 11 fantastic years. The same cannot be said of Manchester Rangers, who along with the RFL ruined all the fantastic relationships that the sport (not me or Mancunians, I hasten to add) had built. 

I have been approached in the last couple of years to help create another club but as I have had my fingers burnt too many times with the sport of Rugby League, I said a very polite but firm no.

Thanks for sharing that. 

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

Just on a point of semantics, the way you have phrased that makes it sound like he had the car stolen as part of the hounding-out process, whereas it sounds like what he was complaining about was people saying it served him right (which is obviously very poor behaviour too).

It’s not clear is it, some of the comments suggest his car was stolen by Swinton fans - ie you get what you deserve? 

[Gerrumonside ref]

My recollection is that there was going to be a full consultation with the Swinton fans and Mazey didn’t undertake it properly instead trying to force the name change unilaterally.

There'd been hostility before then, but also some support for the idea or a compromise name - once the consultation was ran roughshod then many of the Swinton fans lost faith in Andy Mazey.

I recall this from reading social media of those in the main supporters groups of Swinton at that time - it wasn’t just the name change but the way it was handled that upset Swinton fans.

At that point I lived close to Swinton and had enjoyed going to see them at Sale every now and again as a ‘second team’ so had an interest.

[Joe 90]

3 hours ago, Eddie said:

Wouldn’t you describe having your car stolen and being threatened and abused as hounding out? https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/rugby-league/swinton-chairman-lifts-lid-abuse-20065313.amp

Have another read of the article The car theft was nothing to do with Swinton. and anyone can threaten and abuse from behind a keyboard !

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Joe 90 said:

Have another read of the article The car theft was nothing to do with Swinton. and anyone can threaten and abuse from behind a keyboard !

I have done and yes fair enough. 

[Celtic Roosters]

On 15/03/2025 at 22:42, Les Tonks Sidestep said:

I love how so many still have the belief that because all (well the vast majority) on here think that RL is TGG everyone else does too.....

Mate, I've spent 50 odd years trying to preach the gospel of RL to people outside the 3 Counties, having been a convert from football myself in the 70's. Apart from following Salford (until 2000) I have always supported outpost clubs by attending games, even travelling to places like Ipswich Rhinos, South Norfolk Saints, Devon Sharks, Cynon Valley and many more. I attended games at side like, Prescot, Chorley, Blackpool, Runcorn etc, etc. I have a trophy here presented to me by John Devereux in 2006 - Celtic Crusaders supporter of the year. I followed North Wales crusaders for their first 3 seasons before the travelling from Salford became too much. There are lots of RL fans around the Country but too spread out. I've met many who have come to watch the sport for the first time and have enjoyed it but when I asked them if they would come again they would say No, I support Bridgend RU or Cardiff City FC. Just examples. Same in other parts of the Country. People can't afford to watch dual sports any more. The biggest problem I find these days is that the rules of the game change so often that interested persons give up with it. It's the greatest game in the world to me but I also recognise that it's a minority sport and I think it always will be.

[Father Gascoigne]

4 minutes ago, Celtic Roosters said:

Mate, I've spent 50 odd years trying to preach the gospel of RL to people outside the 3 Counties, having been a convert from football myself in the 70's. Apart from following Salford (until 2000) I have always supported outpost clubs by attending games, even travelling to places like Ipswich Rhinos, South Norfolk Saints, Devon Sharks, Cynon Valley and many more. I attended games at side like, Prescot, Chorley, Blackpool, Runcorn etc, etc. I have a trophy here presented to me by John Devereux in 2006 - Celtic Crusaders supporter of the year. I followed North Wales crusaders for their first 3 seasons before the travelling from Salford became too much. There are lots of RL fans around the Country but too spread out. I've met many who have come to watch the sport for the first time and have enjoyed it but when I asked them if they would come again they would say No, I support Bridgend RU or Cardiff City FC. Just examples. Same in other parts of the Country. People can't afford to watch dual sports any more. The biggest problem I find these days is that the rules of the game change so often that interested persons give up with it. It's the greatest game in the world to me but I also recognise that it's a minority sport and I think it always will be.

I suspect people invent all sorts of reasons for not wanting to invest their time in a new sport. From costs to rules and everything in between, the problem is always laid at the feet of the sport itself. 

It's my belief, however, that people have little interest investing their time in something they have no established emotional connection to. More often than not, this attachment is a learned habit stemming from childhood. 

There will always be people like you who become converts in one way or another, but you're an exception to a very stubborn rule. 

[Billy King's Boots]

On 16/03/2025 at 11:25, The Art of Hand and Foot said:

A sad tale of ineptitude at the RFL. Why am I not surprised!? BTW, where exactly where the mancunians based? 

They were out at Manchester Rugby Union, if my ailing memory serves me correctly. I have one of their hoodies in the wardrobe somewhere.

 

[maccbull_bigbullybooaza]

When the NRL buy our sport they'll most likely merge Salford, Rochdale, Oldham, Leigh & Wigan to form the Manchester club. This is going to be massive for the sport.

The Leeds team will be big too taking in Leeds, Hunslet, Wakefield, Castleford and Featherstone.

 

 

[Griff]

5 minutes ago, maccbull_bigbullybooaza said:

When the NRL buy our sport they'll most likely merge Salford, Rochdale, Oldham, Leigh & Wigan to form the Manchester club. This is going to be massive for the sport.

Of course it will.

[maccbull_bigbullybooaza]

11 minutes ago, Griff said:

Of course it will.

It will. I'm also looking forward to the 2 matches at Wembley every weekend instead of that home clubs' ground. 

[RP London]

22 minutes ago, maccbull_bigbullybooaza said:

When the NRL buy our sport they'll most likely merge Salford, Rochdale, Oldham, Leigh & Wigan to form the Manchester club. This is going to be massive for the sport.

The Leeds team will be big too taking in Leeds, Hunslet, Bradford, Wakefield, Castleford and Featherstone.

 

 

I've sorted your post for you

[Billy King's Boots]

27 minutes ago, maccbull_bigbullybooaza said:

When the NRL buy our sport they'll most likely merge Salford, Rochdale, Oldham, Leigh & Wigan to form the Manchester club. This is going to be massive for the sport.

The Leeds team will be big too taking in Leeds, Hunslet, Wakefield, Castleford and Featherstone.

 

 

Their end-game will be to merge all teams west of the pennines into a massive regional superclub. Similarly all the clubs east of the pennines, and the three cumbrian clubs. Midlands, London and Cornwall will all be merged into a Southern superclub - and we'll have four massive clubs playing each other five times a season in some massive National Four Regions competition until we all die of boredom.

[Griff]

9 minutes ago, RP London said:

I've sorted your post for you

Personally, I disapprove of this type of post.

It's one thing to edit a lengthy post down for the sake of emphasising one particular post.  Quite another to pu words into someone's mouth.

Whether it's for humorous effect is no excuse, imho.

[maccbull_bigbullybooaza]

11 minutes ago, RP London said:

I've sorted your post for you

Naaaa we're merging with Halifax and Keighley 

[Griff]

16 minutes ago, maccbull_bigbullybooaza said:

It will. I'm also looking forward to the 2 matches at Wembley every weekend instead of that home clubs' ground. 

Think of the savings in ground maintenance costs.

[RP London]

1 minute ago, Griff said:

Personally, I disapprove of this type of post.

It's one thing to edit a lengthy post down for the sake of emphasising one particular post.  Quite another to pu words into someone's mouth.

Whether it's for humorous effect is no excuse, imho.

Its not like I went back and edited their actual post or made claims they were saying something they actually werent by snipping a post down taking out pertinent information.. 

[Griff]

2 minutes ago, RP London said:

Its not like I went back and edited their actual post or made claims they were saying something they actually werent by snipping a post down taking out pertinent information.. 

It's just my thoughts. I don't expect everyone to agree.

[Celtic Roosters]

On 16/03/2025 at 09:25, RP London said:

Thanks for this, I remember playing Manchester Knights when I was at South London Storm.

One thing though there is a big difference between running an amateur side and a pro one, especially if we're just looking at a rebrand of a club already there. 

If we were to go from, for example, 3,000 to 5,000 because of a rebrand and increased coverage etc then it would be worth it. If it went from 3 to 3 1/2 then maybe not. 

I remember watching South London play in the North West Counties League in the 80's. I've watched a few London based amateur sides - London Colonials & Streatham Celtic immediately come to mind.

[Winston Smith]

On 14/03/2025 at 11:02, The Daddy said:

I find it shocking that in 2025 our sport, which plays the SL Grand Final at Old Trafford and has played many test matches in the city has not one Manchester club in our league structure. 

It's actually bonkers and backwards that this is the case and it's not been prioritised by the RFL, SL or the clubs. 

Several years ago, local businessmen and mancunians involved in RL formed the Manchester Rangers. They played in the Rugby League Conference (correct me if I'm wrong) And applied to join League One. 

My understanding is that their application was declined on the basis of there already being Swinton, Oldham, Salford and Rochdale in the local vicinity and somd of those clubs being against their inclusion. 

But how does this even make sense when each of those clubs are adamant that they are not a Manchester club? 

Manchester has RL history without a pro club and is one of the UKs biggest cities. Make it make sense. 

I'm sure if the NRL have any significant influence in UK RL they will address this. 

Swinton will tell you they are a Manchester club. Swinton has no historical link to Salford and the Borough was forced into the City of Salford in 1974. From friends who support The Lions they have to distance themselves from their traditional area to get support from the city council to go home. It’s a travesty for them really. 

[The Daddy]

3 hours ago, Winston Smith said:

Swinton will tell you they are a Manchester club. Swinton has no historical link to Salford and the Borough was forced into the City of Salford in 1974. From friends who support The Lions they have to distance themselves from their traditional area to get support from the city council to go home. It’s a travesty for them really. 

Thanks for that insight. So why are some Swinton fans against a rebrand to Manchester?

[Amber Avenger]

On 16/03/2025 at 11:25, The Art of Hand and Foot said:

A sad tale of ineptitude at the RFL. Why am I not surprised!? BTW, where exactly where the mancunians based? 

They were South Manchester, based in Hough End on the edge of Didsbury/Chorlton. 

Thanks for the update @thecoffeeman- hope you are well . Certainly RLs loss, and Mancunians are Manchester's loss also. 

[thecoffeeman]

7 hours ago, Amber Avenger said:

They were South Manchester, based in Hough End on the edge of Didsbury/Chorlton. 

Thanks for the update @thecoffeeman- hope you are well . Certainly RLs loss, and Mancunians are Manchester's loss also. 

Thanks @Amber Avenger 

We played initially at Broughton Park rugby club but later moved next door into the GM Police Club who we had a great relationship with.

When we eventually closed things down we'd been working with the new school which has now been built on the sports pitches that were used at at one time and which actually has rugby league named as one of its beneficiaries, to integrate league into there. 

[sweaty craiq]

Mazey’s connection with Swinton was an interesting one, his uncle is Bill Davies - any long standing Swinton fan will know him. He had a realism that Swinton wasn’t going to flourish at Sale with a Swinton name and was dependent on external money to survive. Hopefully his business’s thrive and he can return home one day

[HornyHornyHorneeet]

On 16/03/2025 at 08:39, Joe 90 said:

I don't think he was '' hounded out of the club '' he just cut his losses and left Swinton to slowly decline from where he had taken them. Rochdale are now building a club from the roots up and benefitting from his vision. A massive opportunity lost by the Swinton club.

Spot on and we are very grateful to have him in Rochdale.