The Shay Halifax

[Gooleboy]

10 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

I'd be amazed if they dropped below the >3000 level.

Br prepared to be amazed if they are struggling in the League and playing at the Shay.

[The Blues Ox]

3 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

Br prepared to be amazed if they are struggling in the League and playing at the Shay.

Even so they would gain some points on the % of capacity used which would make up a little bit and then a full point for the stadium which would still take them over 15 points wouldn't it?

[Agbrigg]

This move could also put some momentum behind Halifax. If the stadium is spruced up they may also benefit as it would make it easier for them to attract more fans. Also with the presence of two RL teams in town it will increase public awarness of RL in general. Halifax do have history and a potential decent fan base. It wouldnt suprise me if this could really kick start the club and they get better gates than Huddersfield.

[daz39]

9 hours ago, M j M said:

Inconceivable that Huddersfield moving out of Huddersfield is being met with such acceptance by fans when leaving a club's home town is usually a club killer.

What reduction in crowd size is built into this improvement of the IMG score assumption?

Does the RFL have to approve this extraordinary  move away from Huddersfield? 

To be honest, the fans are split, it's generally the ones who don't go and offer any support or help to the club that are complaining, some of us see the bigger picture and understand what and why this could happen.

We would get more points for utilisation, at the moment we use around 19% of our current capacity, even with 2,500 in the Shay that would be above 20%.

Surprisingly the scoreboard at the JSS doesn't meet the IMG criteria despite it being PL standard in football.

[Archie Gordon]

44 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

Br prepared to be amazed if they are struggling in the League and playing at the Shay.

3-year average so they will carry over some credit as a buffer.

[whatmichaelsays]

12 hours ago, M j M said:

Is anyone yet able to tell me why this is a good idea?

My over-riding thought when this story first broke was that it was a piece of brinksmanship by Davy to coerce Kirklees Council into supporting his "New Giants stadium" project. If not directly through financial support, at least through favourable land and planning agreements. Councils and local politicians tend to get nervous about not being seen to support local sports clubs. 

Whether that strategy needed to go quite as far as this, I'm not sure but if it is a threat, it is something that he seems willing to follow through with. 

 

[gingerjon]

50 minutes ago, daz39 said:

To be honest, the fans are split, it's generally the ones who don't go and offer any support or help to the club that are complaining, some of us see the bigger picture and understand what and why this could happen.

We would get more points for utilisation, at the moment we use around 19% of our current capacity, even with 2,500 in the Shay that would be above 20%.

Surprisingly the scoreboard at the JSS doesn't meet the IMG criteria despite it being PL standard in football.

As discussed, ad Infinitum, football screens and scoreboards don’t need to be high quality because the game rarely uses them.

[JF1]

So this is where we 've arrived at.

Moving to a different town to pick up IMG points is considered more important than winning games on the pitch to ensure Super League status. 

As an aside,the pitch at the Shay has always been 'heavy' to say the least. Could it cope with more traffic?

 

Edited March 18 by JF1
Spelling

[daz39]

24 minutes ago, JF1 said:

So this is where we 've arrived at.

Moving to a different town to pick up IMG points is considered more important than winning games on the pitch to ensure Super League status. 

As an aside,the pitch at the Shay has always been 'heavy' to say the least. Could it cope with more traffic?

 

Nope, the bigger picture is simple - moving to a different town will help keep the club alive, it will die sooner rather than later by staying at the John Smith's, the IMG points will help the club move forwards in the future hopefully.

The main priority will be the pitch, that needs doing as a matter of urgency, the stands and the stadium in general are fine, obviously a few tweaks are needed to bring it up to SL standard but the pitch will take precedent, for all teams to benefit from not just the Giants.

[M j M]

25 minutes ago, JF1 said:

Moving to a different town to pick up IMG points is considered more important than winning games on the pitch to ensure Super League status. 

 

It's a kind of madness really. Ignoring the impact on IMG points the question should be is this in the best interests of the club and its fanbase?

I really struggle to see it when there is no problem playing at the existing stadium until a new one is settled. If it really is a bluff to coerce Kirklees Council then one has to begin to think Ken Davy is the not the brilliant tactician we thought he was.

[whatmichaelsays]

5 minutes ago, M j M said:

It's a kind of madness really. Ignoring the impact on IMG points the question should be is this in the best interests of the club and its fanbase?

I really struggle to see it when there is no problem playing at the existing stadium until a new one is settled. If it really is a bluff to coerce Kirklees Council then one has to begin to think Ken Davy is the not the brilliant tactician we thought he was.

One difficult question that is probably pertinent here is to what extend Ken's heirs are prepared to underwrite costs at the Giants when he is no longer around? 

Without being morbid, Davy is 84 and if neither the means nor appetite are there for his family to fund the Giants into the future, he may be minded to think that he needs time to "right-size" the business to secure its future and his legacy. I don't know what the costs are at the JSS, but I do know that the Council have been working hard to get rid of their stake in the asset before some sizable maintenance bills become due, so "staying until there is an alternative" may not be viable long-term. That isn't to say that Halifax is a desirable option either, but there's a possibility it is the best of a bad bunch. 

[nadera78]

You've got to admire and respect Ken Davy for his financial backing of the club, but the concern (from the outside admittedly) has always been that the club doesn't really seem to do much to grow it's attendances. Lots of cheap tickets, sure, but that always felt like the limit of their approach. They needed to do more than that and moving to Halifax will only exacerbate that.

[Gooleboy]

20 minutes ago, nadera78 said:

You've got to admire and respect Ken Davy for his financial backing of the club, but the concern (from the outside admittedly) has always been that the club doesn't really seem to do much to grow it's attendances. Lots of cheap tickets, sure, but that always felt like the limit of their approach. They needed to do more than that and moving to Halifax will only exacerbate that.

Moving to Halifax will probably lose more supporters than it will gain. And as I said earlier, if the team is struggling on the pitch, who knows how low attendances would be.

[maccbull_bigbullybooaza]

2 hours ago, The Blues Ox said:

Giants moving to the Shay gets them through the 15 point mark for IMG and guarentees their SL status. If they don't move they are at risk.

The irony if a year in IMG disappear in to the distance in typical RFl style. 

Ken's a savvy business man and anything he does is for himself and/or the Giants. He bought Huddersfield Town out of administration and handed their share in the stadium over to the Giants. Built offices there for his own business and then held on to the stadium shares, once he'd sold the football club, forever and day.

This might end up being a short gain but long term pain for Halifax.

[Keep The Faith]

Brighouse giants… 

[TBC]

Ainley Topsy Turvies

(Just setting some comedian up to change that to Turdies...)

[Wellsy4HullFC]

How many IMG points will this gain them?

How many will they lose if they half their attendance?

[hunsletgreenandgold]

3 hours ago, JF1 said:

So this is where we 've arrived at.

Moving to a different town to pick up IMG points is considered more important than winning games on the pitch to ensure Super League status. 

As an aside,the pitch at the Shay has always been 'heavy' to say the least. Could it cope with more traffic?

 

Pitch concerns addressed in this article. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/articles/cyve2n8j4n3o

[Ainley Top]

4 hours ago, whatmichaelsays said:

My over-riding thought when this story first broke was that it was a piece of brinksmanship by Davy to coerce Kirklees Council into supporting his "New Giants stadium" project. If not directly through financial support, at least through favourable land and planning agreements. Councils and local politicians tend to get nervous about not being seen to support local sports clubs. 

Whether that strategy needed to go quite as far as this, I'm not sure but if it is a threat, it is something that he seems willing to follow through with. 

 

%!

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

5 hours ago, The Blues Ox said:

Even so they would gain some points on the % of capacity used which would make up a little bit and then a full point for the stadium which would still take them over 15 points wouldn't it?

I'm intrigued as to where that extra point for facilities comes from?

[daz39]

3 hours ago, whatmichaelsays said:

One difficult question that is probably pertinent here is to what extend Ken's heirs are prepared to underwrite costs at the Giants when he is no longer around? 

Without being morbid, Davy is 84 and if neither the means nor appetite are there for his family to fund the Giants into the future, he may be minded to think that he needs time to "right-size" the business to secure its future and his legacy. I don't know what the costs are at the JSS, but I do know that the Council have been working hard to get rid of their stake in the asset before some sizable maintenance bills become due, so "staying until there is an alternative" may not be viable long-term. That isn't to say that Halifax is a desirable option either, but there's a possibility it is the best of a bad bunch. 

The family have made plans for such a scenario, his Granddaughter is already a board member and the family are committed to ensuring Ken (and Jennifer's) Legacies live on.

[daz39]

4 hours ago, M j M said:

It's a kind of madness really. Ignoring the impact on IMG points the question should be is this in the best interests of the club and its fanbase?

I really struggle to see it when there is no problem playing at the existing stadium until a new one is settled. If it really is a bluff to coerce Kirklees Council then one has to begin to think Ken Davy is the not the brilliant tactician we thought he was.

Simply put, the club will lose more money at the JSS than it will at the Shay.

The stadium is a massive financial millstone around the Giants neck, that will get heavier once the football clubs owner owns it outright, we simply have to move out of it to survive, it's not just about having somewhere to play.

[M j M]

4 minutes ago, daz39 said:

Simply put, the club will lose more money at the JSS than it will at the Shay.

The stadium is a massive financial millstone around the Giants neck, that will get heavier once the football clubs owner owns it outright, we simply have to move out of it to survive, it's not just about having somewhere to play.

Genuine question: Davy majority owned the stadium at some point. Why did the subsequent negotiations to sell it not involve leaving the Giants with a very preferable rate for using it? How on earth has it become cheaper to leave the town than continue playing there?

[Les Tonks Sidestep]

7 minutes ago, daz39 said:

Simply put, the club will lose more money at the JSS than it will at the Shay.

The stadium is a massive financial millstone around the Giants neck, that will get heavier once the football clubs owner owns it outright, we simply have to move out of it to survive, it's not just about having somewhere to play.

 

Just now, M j M said:

Genuine question: Davy majority owned the stadium at some point. Why did the subsequent negotiations to sell it not involve leaving the Giants with a very preferable rate for using it? How on earth has it become cheaper to leave the town than continue playing there?

That would require the Giants to sell him their 20% share....

[daz39]

23 minutes ago, M j M said:

Genuine question: Davy majority owned the stadium at some point. Why did the subsequent negotiations to sell it not involve leaving the Giants with a very preferable rate for using it? How on earth has it become cheaper to leave the town than continue playing there?

He put the Giants and the football clubs shares in a trust, not sure of the ins and outs but the football fans demanded he sell them back to the new football owner, the £2 shares fiasco, Ken eventually sold them back.

I believe the rent percentage was set in stone at the beginning of the stadiums life so he couldn't just change it.