What would it take for Newcastle thunder to get to super league?

[langpark]

They seemed to be building nicely in Championship in 2022, with an average crowd of 1,099 (boosted by the Friday night crowd before Magic weekend - 3,034).  It was a similar story in 2023, despite being the whipping boys of the division that year.  But more importantly, RL in the North-East seemed to be going really well to compliment the Thunder's efforts.  I can't help but wonder how they would be going had they maintained a Championship spot for 5 years.  But I suppose it proved to be unsustainable after a short time.

[gingerjon]

9 hours ago, Eddie said:

Agreed it does, but how many people watch Newcastle eagles, who’s funded it and how sustainable is it? 

Two different ownership groups and corporate sponsorship seem to be the main funding. No idea on average attendance but, and this is the bit that people (not you, necessarily) always overlook: some of these places we talk about our pretty big, even if 90% of the population do not care, it could easily be enough to sustain a team.

[The Blues Ox]

20 hours ago, newbe said:

A Miracle 

This was going to be my answer, that or the game been in a 3 year cycle where we just put random clubs in leagues just because it fits the narative at the time.

[HawkMan]

It seems to me the downturn in the fortunes of Thunder coincided with the Saudis buying NUFC. Perhaps dissatisfied Toon Army members fed up with Ashley boosted Thunder attendances and interest,  but now with NUFC now acting like a proper big club , these dissatisfied fans crept back to the NUFC fold.

[Eddie]

6 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

It seems to me the downturn in the fortunes of Thunder coincided with the Saudis buying NUFC. Perhaps dissatisfied Toon Army members fed up with Ashley boosted Thunder attendances and interest,  but now with NUFC now acting like a proper big club , these dissatisfied fans crept back to the NUFC fold.

The downturn in Thunder’s fortunes was because the funding was pulled by the owner. 

[Gerrumonside ref]

20 hours ago, Toon22 said:

So having enjoyed the Rugby league at st James Park, it got me thinking how could Newcastle thunder ever get to super league? 

 

Around 8 to 10k at the event where from north east postcode, I appreciate that some of this will be league fans of other clubs up here already but shoes there could be good support up here for a super league team. 

 

How much would it cost go run a side? 

 

What else would need to be done to make them successful in super league ? 

It might take a while and would need a rich benefactor but in rugby league terms rather than football terms.

Genuinely rugby league fans have only positive things to say about Newcastle, the city and the warmth of the people.

As well as the Magic Weekend, I think more England matches could find their way up there as nothing is fixed in that regard.

[HawkMan]

14 minutes ago, Eddie said:

The downturn in Thunder’s fortunes was because the funding was pulled by the owner. 

Perhaps he could see interest waning because of what was happening across the city. It would be really amazing if NUFC becoming nominally the richest club in the world had absolutely no effect on a rival sporting attraction.

Edited May 8 by HawkMan

[Eddie]

13 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

Perhaps he could see interest waning because of what was happening across the city. It would be really amazing if NUFC becoming nominally the richest club in the world had absolutely no effect on a rival sporting attraction.

Newcastle Utd were massive regardless,  and already sold out every game. 

[Gerrumonside ref]

16 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

Perhaps he could see interest waning because of what was happening across the city. 

I get the theory you’re putting forward but even when the Newcastle fans despised the former football ownership and tried to drive them out the attendances held up very well.

If you’ve never been to Newcastle you probably won’t realise that they are fanatical about their football, black and white is everywhere, all of the time, and not just because they are winning trophies (which as we both know is not their story at all).

I think going into the investment into the Falcons and the Thunder they will have known what I know going in.

Any business plan based on Newcastle Utd becoming unpopular would have been doomed from the start.

You could look at it the other way too, the better NUFC do, the more scarce tickets get, the more people might choose rugby league as an alternative for a live sporting experience.

 

 

Edited May 8 by Gerrumonside ref

[JonM]

1 hour ago, gingerjon said:

Two different ownership groups and corporate sponsorship seem to be the main funding. No idea on average attendance but, and this is the bit that people (not you, necessarily) always overlook: some of these places we talk about our pretty big, even if 90% of the population do not care, it could easily be enough to sustain a team.

I go to Newcastle reasonably often, and had never heard of the basketball team, never noticed anyone wearing the kit - completely invisible to me. Turns out they're far and away the most successful British club - league champions 20+ times, huge development programme with hundreds of junior teams, and as you say, recently built their own arena. The attendances look to be typically over 1000, sometimes over 2000 people. 

[Gerrumonside ref]

Just now, JonM said:

I go to Newcastle reasonably often, and had never heard of the basketball team, never noticed anyone wearing the kit - completely invisible to me. Turns out they're far and away the most successful British club - league champions 20+ times, huge development programme with hundreds of junior teams, and as you say, recently built their own arena. The attendances look to be typically over 1000, sometimes over 2000 people. 

I had no idea either.

[JonM]

43 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

Perhaps he could see interest waning because of what was happening across the city. It would be really amazing if NUFC becoming nominally the richest club in the world had absolutely no effect on a rival sporting attraction.

Not at all. Semore Kurdi owned both the rugby union club and Thunder. He's put in tens of millions of pounds that he won't get back. After such heavy losses he decided to reduce costs significantly, trying to operate at breakeven. This was before the Saudi NUFC takeover happened. The RU team spends way, way less than other RU clubs subsidised by rich owners/ HMRC/ mug punters buying bonds/ covid loans etc. and consistently finishes in the bottom two. They didn't win at all in the league last season. The club has been openly up for sale for much of that time. Getting rid of Thunder was part of his cost-cutting.

Edited May 8 by JonM

[gingerjon]

5 minutes ago, Gerrumonside ref said:

I had no idea either.

And this is kind of my point - we’re a big country of 70 million people. Being third or fourth in some places might mean only the faithful know - but if there’s enough of the faithful and some of them have money then it’s all you need.

[Gerrumonside ref]

15 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

And this is kind of my point - we’re a big country of 70 million people. Being third or fourth in some places might mean only the faithful know - but if there’s enough of the faithful and some of them have money then it’s all you need.

I agree and it’s a big place in non London terms.

Most people who like sport want a live sport experience and if it is not easy to get tickets with friends at St James’ Park it makes sense to me that you might explore an alternative like basketball.

Or Magic Weekends.

 

Edited May 8 by Gerrumonside ref

[OriginalMrC]

52 minutes ago, HawkMan said:

Perhaps he could see interest waning because of what was happening across the city. It would be really amazing if NUFC becoming nominally the richest club in the world had absolutely no effect on a rival sporting attraction.

Literally zero effect. There is very little crossover between football fans and rugby fans. And as someone else has said Newcastle football was sold out every week anyway.

Funding was pulled by the owner because Newcastle Falcons were in financial difficulty. That was the sole reason why

Edited May 8 by OriginalMrC

[HawkMan]

I'll bow to others superior knowledge of Newcastle.

Genuine question; does what is happening at NUFC NOW  have zero effect in attracting new fans to RL  in the city?

Edited May 8 by HawkMan

[up the robins]

The first thing I would do to meet the criteria of super league consideration is to lobby the government to extend the m62 from north cave up to Newcastle.

Would seriously love to see the sport take off in the north east.

[TrueBull]

In the current system - money. And not that much, compared to other sports - up to £5m annually would do it. 

It's way (long way) down the line but  if, we get an NRL style system, then it's quite possible they would be looked at as the 15th or 16th club I suppose (following the strategic expansion system of the NRL)

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, HawkMan said:

I'll bow to others superior knowledge of Newcastle.

Genuine question; does what is happening at NUFC NOW  have zero effect in attracting new fans to RL  in the city?

I would say yes, it’s pretty much zero. 

[EggFace]

14 hours ago, gingerjon said:

And yet, in football mad Newcastle, Newcastle Eagles basketball have managed to get the support and funding together to build a dedicated basketball arena and fund a whole suite of community programmes.

It takes money, yes. But it also takes money and patience - and security.

Whats the average crowd for a Basketball game in the Super League and I wonder how much players are on ?

[NERugbyDad]

21 hours ago, creditwhereitsdews said:

I don't get why they've never been given a Magic Weekend match at St James' Park for all these years. I can't think of a better way to promote the club and the sport in the city. For me it should be a central part of the event and it would raise the status of the club massively.

Thunder had been scheduled to play Doncaster as the Saturday opener at Magic Weekend 2020 then along came COVID

[Bull Mania]

3 hours ago, The Blues Ox said:

This was going to be my answer, that or the game been in a 3 year cycle where we just put random clubs in leagues just because it fits the narative at the time.

Normally i agree with you, but i feel Newcastle was the one place that made sense and could work. It was close enough to the heartlands, where it could use players form there to support it. It also had a successful junior program in place. Unfortunately the plug was pulled and quite frankly at the moment it's just a shell of what it was a couple of years ago which is a crying shame.

I think the money involved in Perth, in a country where the sport has a national profile, shows the sums and how hard it is to break into new ground. We don't have either. But year, calling Salford Manchester is suddenly going to get people involved in RL.

[gingerjon]

17 minutes ago, EggFace said:

Whats the average crowd for a Basketball game in the Super League and I wonder how much players are on ?

Apparently the average is £26k for the season.

[EggFace]

11 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Apparently the average is £26k for the season.

I wonder if they get any help of the NBA but can't work out how the league in England makes any money but credit to the Eagles and the other Basketball clubs for still operating.

[Tommygilf]

2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

And this is kind of my point - we’re a big country of 70 million people. Being third or fourth in some places might mean only the faithful know - but if there’s enough of the faithful and some of them have money then it’s all you need.

Being the 3rd or 4th team in a city is very hard work though. Its a constant fight for any attention, and even then, in the context of a wider region you could actually be closer to 10th.

As you say having that proportionally small but still sustainably large enough following is possible. RLs social model doesn't seem to lend itself to that however.