How to Reignite a Club the Hull KR/Oldham Way

[Mumby Magic]

A Challenge Cup victory this weekend keeps the KR train steaming onwards. But how have they built the club into the version we see today? From Championship Rugby some 9 years ago to record crowds, stand extensions, silverware and not forgetting Erasure the story is a great one and not by the looks if it finished. 

And when you add Oldham's trajectory forward at the moment, with positive vibes around the place and currently sitting in 4th place in the Championship, how have these clubs gone about it and more importantly why cant other clubs follow suit?

[iffleyox]

Decent on and off pitch management and lots of money? The former paid for by the latter and generating more of the latter…

it’s completely replicable. All a club needs is the personnel and the cash.

see also Wakefield.

Edited June 9 by iffleyox

[Billy King's Boots]

Oldham are chucking a bucket of cash at it aka "The Toronto Model" - we all know how that ended

Word from the sheds is that they're going full time next year

Good if you have bottomless pockets.

[The Blues Ox]

I don't think you can compare the two clubs. I think KR has been an organic growth and if you could bottle that and sell it then you would be a very rich person. Oldham is just bags of cash and I think most clubs could do what they are doing if they had those sort of resources. That isn't to belittle what Oldham are doing and if anything they are a little bit unlucky that this cycle is coming around while there is no onfield promotion as I reckon they could have been promoted pretty comfortably in a season or two where as under IMG by the time they get anywhere near it might have been knocked on its head and the money man may have lost interest or his money.

Leigh and Wakey other good examples of what can be done with a lot of money and a bit of drive and passion. Not really many examples of what Hull Kr have done but does offer a blueprint of what is achievable if things are done right.

[Damien]

Money is the root of it really isn't it? Without that investment it is nigh on impossible. Sure it takes good management too, and Hull KR have undeniably had that (know less about Oldham and what has happened there has been over a much shorter time frame so far) but without the money that can only go so far.

[Mumby Magic]

9 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:

I don't think you can compare the two clubs. I think KR has been an organic growth and if you could bottle that and sell it then you would be a very rich person. Oldham is just bags of cash and I think most clubs could do what they are doing if they had those sort of resources. That isn't to belittle what Oldham are doing and if anything they are a little bit unlucky that this cycle is coming around while there is no onfield promotion as I reckon they could have been promoted pretty comfortably in a season or two where as under IMG by the time they get anywhere near it might have been knocked on its head and the money man may have lost interest or his money.

Leigh and Wakey other good examples of what can be done with a lot of money and a bit of drive and passion. Not really many examples of what Hull Kr have done but does offer a blueprint of what is achievable if things are done right.

I agree it was more Hull KR as my main focus tbh. However money doesn't always have positive outcomes RL wise.

[JohnM]

It's not about bottomless pockets,  I reckon.

You need a single-minded evangenical leader. To attract players, fans and finance, you need  a long term realistic and achievable objective with a strategy to achieve  that objective and the tactics to support the strategy. 

[Fevrover]

13 minutes ago, Mumby Magic said:

I agree it was more Hull KR as my main focus tbh. However money doesn't always have positive outcomes RL wise.

You're correct ,we know full well at Fev.

[The Phantom Horseman]

16 minutes ago, Mumby Magic said:

 However money doesn't always have positive outcomes RL wise.

It doesn't half help, though.

[Worzel]

2 minutes ago, JohnM said:

It's not about bottomless pockets,  I reckon.

You need a single-minded evangenical leader. To attract players, fans and finance, you need  a long term realistic and achievable objective with a strategy to achieve  that objective and the tactics to support the strategy. 

I think it comes down to leadership, with a clear vision and able to inspire people to work consistently towards it. It always comes down to the people. It's also about being committed: I had an old boss who always used to say to me "you can't be half pregnant".

Hull KR had the money between 2007 and 2016 too to some extent, but we weren't able to progress. We lacked two things

Total commitment: Neil invested enough to keep us up, but not enough to compete in the Top 6 or indeed to grow other "behind the scenes" aspects of the club. 

Leadership: The then CEO Mike Smith was a lovely, hard working guy. But he didn't have the vision to see the potential, or the wherewihtall to drive toward it.   

When we were relegated in 2016, there was a tipping point when the fans bought more memberships for the next season than had been bought for the last Super League campaign. Hudgell, who was wavering at the time, took heart from that and started to believe again in the potential of what was clearly resilient, latent demand in the community. The club started to invest in more things than the first team (marketing, community engagement, pathways), but that required more money. Like I said, you can't be half pregnant. Hudgell recognised that needed more investment, and brought back Paul Lakin to lead that drive to find others in the Hull community and sell them the dream of what was possible.

That was the tipping point.

If the question is "how can you replicate that?", I think we need to be honest and say that Hull KR levels of growth are only possible where you have a wellspring of latent demand, one that comes from a long-term history of local affinity to the club. It's something that Bradford, for example, or Widnes, might be capable of doing. But it's not something that we could ever judge London Broncos for being unable to do.

Hull KR have reactivated an almost-lost community, in the way South Sydney also did under Russell Crowe. There aren't that many other platforms where that can be done, so newer markets will need different strategies.  

[Harry Stottle]

21 minutes ago, JohnM said:

It's not about bottomless pockets,  I reckon.

You need a single-minded evangenical leader. To attract players, fans and finance, you need  a long term realistic and achievable objective with a strategy to achieve  that objective and the tactics to support the strategy. 

Am I mistaken John but are you putting a tick in Mr Beaumont's box?

[Mr Plow]

Money is a good start but you need to be somewhat sustainable as Salford have found out. A decent fanbase and strong connections to the community are good. 
 

Leigh and KR have realised that people don’t just want 80 minutes of rugby. KR have Craven street and Leigh have embraced half time entertainment 

[Damien]

1 minute ago, Mr Plow said:

Money is a good start but you need to be somewhat sustainable as Salford have found out. A decent fanbase and strong connections to the community are good. 
 

Leigh and KR have realised that people don’t just want 80 minutes of rugby. KR have Craven street and Leigh have embraced half time entertainment 

Salford haven't had the money in my time watching the game, that's a really bad example of what people mean.

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, Mumby Magic said:

A Challenge Cup victory this weekend keeps the KR train steaming onwards. But how have they built the club into the version we see today? From Championship Rugby some 9 years ago to record crowds, stand extensions, silverware and not forgetting Erasure the story is a great one and not by the looks if it finished. 

And when you add Oldham's trajectory forward at the moment, with positive vibes around the place and currently sitting in 4th place in the Championship, how have these clubs gone about it and more importantly why cant other clubs follow suit?

Erasure?

[Simon Hall]

59 minutes ago, Mumby Magic said:

A Challenge Cup victory this weekend keeps the KR train steaming onwards. But how have they built the club into the version we see today? From Championship Rugby some 9 years ago to record crowds, stand extensions, silverware and not forgetting Erasure the story is a great one and not by the looks if it finished. 

And when you add Oldham's trajectory forward at the moment, with positive vibes around the place and currently sitting in 4th place in the Championship, how have these clubs gone about it and more importantly why cant other clubs follow suit?

I'd have maybe mentioned York here as well as Oldham but maybe that's just cos I'm a York supporter, bearing in mind they've just won at Wembley and a proving they're on an upward trajectory done properly and with patience rather than just chucking money at ex-SL signings. Our academy starts next year too, so big stuff happening.

[Mumby Magic]

2 minutes ago, Eddie said:

Erasure?

Please give a little respect to my post Eddie.

[Harry Stottle]

Just now, Damien said:

Salford haven't had the money in my time watching the game, that's a really bad example of what people mean.

Dr Koucash?

He took wrong advise in my opinion and employed the wrong people starting with Brian Noble who spent loads of the good Docs money on player's past their prime, the Doc was just a few years to early had he had a Paul Rowley available we could well be seeing a different version of Salford today.

[Mumby Magic]

1 minute ago, Simon Hall said:

I'd have maybe mentioned York here as well as Oldham but maybe that's just cos I'm a York supporter, bearing in mind they've just won at Wembley and a proving they're on an upward trajectory done properly and with patience rather than just chucking money at ex-SL signings. Our academy starts next year too, so big stuff happening.

Indeed. 

[Harry Stottle]

5 minutes ago, Simon Hall said:

Our academy starts next year too, so big stuff happening.

That is a big crux to being successful, there are so many benefits with running an elite Academy least of all a conveyor belt of players and financial gains with the salary cap.

Edited June 9 by Harry Stottle

[Damien]

5 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Dr Koucash?

He took wrong advise in my opinion and employed the wrong people starting with Brian Noble who spent loads of the good Docs money on player's past their prime, the Doc was just a few years to early had he had a Paul Rowley available we could well be seeing a different version of Salford today.

Like I said a bad example. When people talk about money they are referring to sustained investment over years, both on and off field. Not just a year of signing old has beens.

[Simon Hall]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

That is a big crux to being successful, there arexdo many benefits with running an elite Academy least of all a conveyor belt of players and financial gains with the salary cap.

We have 4 good amateur clubs in the city and there's about 20-30 York lads in SL systems at the moment so if we can get a good pathway going it should pay dividends in the next few years.

[Eddie]

15 minutes ago, Simon Hall said:

I'd have maybe mentioned York here as well as Oldham but maybe that's just cos I'm a York supporter, bearing in mind they've just won at Wembley and a proving they're on an upward trajectory done properly and with patience rather than just chucking money at ex-SL signings. Our academy starts next year too, so big stuff happening.

What sort of attendances are York getting this season? Seeing as they don’t announce them. I was pleased to see so many York jerseys at Wembley. 

[Simon Hall]

3 minutes ago, Eddie said:

What sort of attendances are York getting this season? Seeing as they don’t announce them. I was pleased to see so many York jerseys at Wembley. 

We sold 1300 season tickets this year which is an increase on previous years, attendances look to be about 2-2.5k. 

Get us in SL and we certainly wouldn't be the lowest attended club in there.

[Harry Stottle]

1 minute ago, Damien said:

Like I said a bad example. When people talk about money they are referring to sustained investment over years, both on and off field. Not just a year of signing old has beens.

As I said the wrong coach at Salford initiated the bad expenditure of the initial influx of money the Doc provided, whatever one wants to say about structures and the way the game is run nothing brings punters in like success on the field, look at the club down the road from you.

I have been there for a long time in mediocre times then Mr Beaumont hatched his 5 year plan at the end of '21 when relegated from SL he brought in Mr Lam and he changed things round on the field with the money Mr B provided by having a competive team on the field which brought in more punters which generates more cash, which makes more money available to improve the team, which brings in more punters etc etc and so it goes.

[Damien]

11 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

As I said the wrong coach at Salford initiated the bad expenditure of the initial influx of money the Doc provided, whatever one wants to say about structures and the way the game is run nothing brings punters in like success on the field, look at the club down the road from you.

I have been there for a long time in mediocre times then Mr Beaumont hatched his 5 year plan at the end of '21 when relegated from SL he brought in Mr Lam and he changed things round on the field with the money Mr B provided by having a competive team on the field which brought in more punters which generates more cash, which makes more money available to improve the team, which brings in more punters etc etc and so it goes.

What Beaumont tried on his 3rd attempt in SL is nothing like what Koukash did. The Koukash approach was much more similar to Beaumonts previous 2 attempts, right down to spitting his dummy out when it didn't work.

Whatever way you dice it Koukash did not provide sustained investment at Salford and certainly did little other than a few cosmetic signings and a new mascot. That is why he failed.

Edited June 9 by Damien