Arm-waving

[Cerulean]

To tolerate is to accept: to accept is to condone: to condone is to encourage. The purpose of arm waving - generally accompanied by physical and audible expressions of disgust and contempt - is to redirect the officials’ attention, to suggest that the officials are missing something, to gain an unearned advantage; immediately with a six-again or a penalty; later with an altered perception by the officials. It’s rehearsed, encouraged by the coach, practised, perfected. The benefits are valuable. Those six-agains can turn a game or contribute to maintaining dominance. It may not be a total coincidence that the team that may be at the top of the arm-waving league is also the team at the top of the league table.

It’s dissent, it’s offensive, it’s an attempt to highlight that the officials are not doing their job. It shows the sport in a poor light. It's not unlikely that it contributes to other levels of dissent. It probably contributes to spectator abuse of the officials. Perhaps it even reaches down to U14 level.

It could be stopped completely within 15 minutes of the next round of fixtures, with an early released warning and few deserved penalties.

 Overstating my case, perhaps, but why isn't it stopped?

[fighting irish]

Hear hear. 

[bobbruce]

Absolutely let’s start penalisingit. Can I add another pet hate that’s creeping into the game. Players caught on the last tackle refusing to hand the ball over and even throwing it away rather than give it to the opposition. Just penalise it would be stopped in a round. 

[Hopie]

Another case of the horse has already bolted, players have been openly criticising the refs in an indirect manner for decades, but its the same reason many rules are not enforced.

When it comes down to it those who want the game to "flow" will win out against those who want to see the game played to the letter of the law. Whenever a strict enforcement has been introduced by officials, the number of penalties given is criticised by players, coaches, fans and the media as if it is the officials fault. 

[daz39]

Would love to see penalties for dissent come back in and marched 10 metres up field for doing it, used to see it at least once a game back in the day.

[M j M]

 

[sam4731]

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to disagree here. If we start penalising every little gripe that any fans have, it'd just get ridiculous. Arm waving exists in every sport. As far as I'm concerned, get over it.

Also stop giving more jobs to the ref. How do you expect them to watch the ruck/PTB and check that a player isn't waving their arms too?

I also find it ironic that these are usually bemoan the VR adding half an hour onto a game but seem to want a never ending list of minor issues penalised.

[Click]

2 hours ago, sam4731 said:

I'm sorry but I'm going to have to disagree here. If we start penalising every little gripe that any fans have, it'd just get ridiculous. Arm waving exists in every sport. As far as I'm concerned, get over it.

Also stop giving more jobs to the ref. How do you expect them to watch the ruck/PTB and check that a player isn't waving their arms too?

I also find it ironic that these are usually bemoan the VR adding half an hour onto a game but seem to want a never ending list of minor issues penalised.

How single-minded do you think referees are if they would struggle to see a DH waving their arms in the air? It isn't like it's subtle, or that they are looking at another area of the pitch.

You have also missed the point with your last paragraph, the point of this would be to penalise players doing it to stop them doing it in future, the idea would be that it wouldn't delay EVERY game going forward, just the first few under the new rules until players learn not to act like screaming toddlers at DH.

[sam4731]

8 minutes ago, Click said:

How single-minded do you think referees are if they would struggle to see a DH waving their arms in the air? It isn't like it's subtle, or that they are looking at another area of the pitch.

You have also missed the point with your last paragraph, the point of this would be to penalise players doing it to stop them doing it in future, the idea would be that it wouldn't delay EVERY game going forward, just the first few under the new rules until players learn not to act like screaming toddlers at DH.

You're completely underplaying how much referees have to watch for. Offside, whether a ball has been ripped or knocked on, making sure the ball is played correctly, making sure the markers are square, looking for interference amongst numerous other rules. I just can't imagine the referees would welcome having to police something so inconsequential.

How much time is arm waving adding onto a match? More than the equivalent of one penalty?

It's just such a non issue and yet another rule in the ever increasing rulebook of rugby league.

[Griff]

1 hour ago, sam4731 said:

You're completely underplaying how much referees have to watch for. Offside, whether a ball has been ripped or knocked on, making sure the ball is played correctly, making sure the markers are square, looking for interference amongst numerous other rules. I just can't imagine the referees would welcome having to police something so inconsequential.

How much time is arm waving adding onto a match? More than the equivalent of one penalty?

It's just such a non issue and yet another rule in the ever increasing rulebook of rugby league.

I agree.  It's a key hooker skill.

I'm not sure what opponents of arm waving have got against the concept of getting on with the game.

Edited June 14 by Griff

[Griff]

4 hours ago, daz39 said:

Would love to see penalties for dissent come back in and marched 10 metres up field for doing it, used to see it at least once a game back in the day.

Once a game?  Sounds like it didn't cut out dissent then.

[Expatknight]

5 hours ago, bobbruce said:

Absolutely let’s start penalisingit. Can I add another pet hate that’s creeping into the game. Players caught on the last tackle refusing to hand the ball over and even throwing it away rather than give it to the opposition. Just penalise it would be stopped in a round. 

Ten minutes in the bin if you throw the ball away, tantamount to a professional foul as it stops the opposition from a quick play the ball. It would stop that kind of gamesmanship from week 1.

[Expatknight]

5 hours ago, daz39 said:

Would love to see penalties for dissent come back in and marched 10 metres up field for doing it, used to see it at least once a game back in the day.

In my day You got two chances, first time it was 10 yards ( we didn’t have those continental measurements in my day) next time it was an early bath, these days you could give a yellow card for the second.

Edited June 14 by Expatknight

[Padge]

I have said time and time again, appealing for a penalty etc. should be an immediate penalty against the appealer.

[Just Browny]

2 hours ago, sam4731 said:

You're completely underplaying how much referees have to watch for. Offside, whether a ball has been ripped or knocked on, making sure the ball is played correctly, making sure the markers are square, looking for interference amongst numerous other rules. I just can't imagine the referees would welcome having to police something so inconsequential.

How much time is arm waving adding onto a match? More than the equivalent of one penalty?

It's just such a non issue and yet another rule in the ever increasing rulebook of rugby league.

Arm waving is pretty much Daryl Clark's best party trick these days so can see why you wouldn't want to lose it.

[Padge]

1 minute ago, Just Browny said:

Arm waving is pretty much Daryl Clark's best party trick these days so can see why you wouldn't want to lose it.

Wellens, flapper in chief as a player, has coached him well.

[sam4731]

14 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

Arm waving is pretty much Daryl Clark's best party trick these days so can see why you wouldn't want to lose it.

Drat you've caught me. Now you've discovered the secret to Saints' genius tactics. Everyone will want to copy the template that is Saints' inevitable GF winning season now.

You know what I really can't stand? When you get a pie at a ground and it's cold. Can we penalise teams fir that too?

[Griff]

30 minutes ago, Padge said:

I have said time and time again, appealing for a penalty etc. should be an immediate penalty against the appealer.

Cricket will blow your mind.

[sam4731]

OK I'll tell you what, I'll be your genie. Your wish is my command. I will implement that a player that appeals for a penalty concedes a penalty but on one condition. You, the fan in the stand, aren't allowed to appeal either. Deal?

[gingerjon]

The players can stop flapping their arms when the officials stop relying on the video ref to call their attention to genuine foul play that they've decided to let go.

[Dave T]

I'm not sure on what grounds waving your arms would be a penalty. Sometimes fans just need to chill out a bit.

[Damien]

8 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

The players can stop flapping their arms when the officials stop relying on the video ref to call their attention to genuine foul play that they've decided to let go.

Good point, I think there has certainly been a correlation between the increase in appealing and milking and players being rewarded by incidents that were missed being looked at by the video ref.

Edited June 14 by Damien

[Archie Gordon]

8 hours ago, daz39 said:

Would love to see penalties for dissent come back in and marched 10 metres up field for doing it, used to see it at least once a game back in the day.

Holdsworth and Whitfield tapping their lips and marching 'em 10! Then another 10 if they didn't stop.

[LeeF]

17 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

Holdsworth and Whitfield tapping their lips and marching 'em 10! Then another 10 if they didn't stop.

You can’t “March” a player 10m twice for dissent at the same incident. 
 

It’s penalty, then 10m, then yellow or maybe red if the dissent escalates too far

Edited June 14 by LeeF

[Archie Gordon]

Just now, LeeF said:

You can’t “March” a player 10m twice for dissent at the same incident. 

It definitely happened. Might have been different players.