NCL Regionalisation

[johnmatrix]

Hearing rumours that a potential regionalisation is going to take place under the Premier. 

Is there too many teams in the structure? 

[LightningWB]

Regionalisation already exists in the form of Yorkshire Men's, North West Men's, Cumbria RL, Midlands RL, Hull District.... If you fall on hard times and/or can't afford the travel commitments just withdraw from the NCL. I imagine Cumbrian teams likely have it the hardest financially given they'll be north of £1,000 per away game anything past the Wirral. 

Seems like a way to avoid the best playing the best in my opinion. 

[The Duke]

Probably cutting the ncl down to two divisions and letting the other sides go back to regional comps would be better 

Div 2 and 3 aren’t great quality, the clubs could probably get similar standard games in their respective regional comps with less expense - Cumbrian Clubs coming to Hull for low quality games is ludicrous 

Having some meaningful county and national cups would be good too 

[johnmatrix]

4 hours ago, LightningWB said:

Regionalisation already exists in the form of Yorkshire Men's, North West Men's, Cumbria RL, Midlands RL, Hull District.... If you fall on hard times and/or can't afford the travel commitments just withdraw from the NCL. I imagine Cumbrian teams likely have it the hardest financially given they'll be north of £1,000 per away game anything past the Wirral. 

Seems like a way to avoid the best playing the best in my opinion. 

The best, yes in the prem but div 3 and 2 is not the best playing the best. Probably needs less teams in the structure. 

The financial loss to the community game in terms of money spent on travel is ridiculous, surely that money would be better pumped into improving facilities and maybe employing development officers. 

[johnmatrix]

2 hours ago, The Duke said:

Probably cutting the ncl down to two divisions and letting the other sides go back to regional comps would be better 

Div 2 and 3 aren’t great quality, the clubs could probably get similar standard games in their respective regional comps with less expense - Cumbrian Clubs coming to Hull for low quality games is ludicrous 

Having some meaningful county and national cups would be good too 

I'd be in favour of that tbf. 

[johnmatrix]

10 hours ago, LightningWB said:

Regionalisation already exists in the form of Yorkshire Men's, North West Men's, Cumbria RL, Midlands RL, Hull District.... If you fall on hard times and/or can't afford the travel commitments just withdraw from the NCL. I imagine Cumbrian teams likely have it the hardest financially given they'll be north of £1,000 per away game anything past the Wirral. 

Seems like a way to avoid the best playing the best in my opinion. 

What's your plan?

[Death to the Rah Rah's]

The game needs a full and comprehensive review but ultimately the RFL need to show some leadership and make some tough decisions to try and create a vibrant competition that allows team to find their level and develop at their own pace.

The current structure of community rugby league is fragmented, with overlapping management bodies, diluted competition, and no unified leadership or development pathway. At present where we have the RFL, BARLA, NCL, regional open age and youth league managements plus each regional referees society running the game - I've never witnessed anything as ludicrous in my life, the game currently has no clearly defined leadership, no seemingly development plan etc. and that needs to change.

 

[LightningWB]

Agree with all the above on Death to Rah Rah's post, what isn't clear is the entire structure of the game, no doubt some clubs in League One won't be permitted into the hypothetical 2 leagues of 14 in the professional game, so where do they go? On top of that how does a club for example like Keighley Albion who have entered the NCL this year and a clearly capable on the field at least in that division, how do they get in to the NCL if it is a closed shop from NCL1 down, would need to understand the full proposal of league structures and how promotion/relegation works before commenting any further. The lack of clear defined leadership is an excellent one, even if I do think the amateur game somewhat self governs itself with more success than the professional one. 

[gillmeister]

3 hours ago, LightningWB said:

Agree with all the above on Death to Rah Rah's post, what isn't clear is the entire structure of the game, no doubt some clubs in League One won't be permitted into the hypothetical 2 leagues of 14 in the professional game, so where do they go? On top of that how does a club for example like Keighley Albion who have entered the NCL this year and a clearly capable on the field at least in that division, how do they get in to the NCL if it is a closed shop from NCL1 down, would need to understand the full proposal of league structures and how promotion/relegation works before commenting any further. The lack of clear defined leadership is an excellent one, even if I do think the amateur game somewhat self governs itself with more success than the professional one. 

4 regional premier divisions say Cumbria Lancashire Pennine and Yorkshire with the top two qualifying for a play off series where the two grand finalists are then promoted into NCL divison one?

[LightningWB]

47 minutes ago, gillmeister said:

4 regional premier divisions say Cumbria Lancashire Pennine and Yorkshire with the top two qualifying for a play off series where the two grand finalists are then promoted into NCL divison one?

Don't see why it couldn't work... Be really interesting to see any future proposals down the line, and more importantly as highlighted, who runs the competition(s)! 

[The Duke]

I don’t think Barla have much say in any open age competition these days 

 

The national cup is a shadow of it’s former self unfortunately 

 

The NCL and RFL are somewhat aligned but not entirely 

It needs a top down approach from the RFL, there may be a couple of noses out of joint but it’s duplicitous the admin in the game currently 

[Anita Bath]

4 hours ago, The Duke said:

I don’t think Barla have much say in any open age competition these days 

 

The national cup is a shadow of it’s former self unfortunately 

 

The NCL and RFL are somewhat aligned but not entirely 

It needs a top down approach from the RFL, there may be a couple of noses out of joint but it’s duplicitous the admin in the game currently 

I wouldnt trust the RFL to sit the right way on a toilet.

[LightningWB]

I mean to sign on at the beginning of the season £28 per player goes to the RFL for administration of the game, so would love to see a breakdown of costs on what that is spent on, as it was my understanding 80/90% of the people involved in the game at Community level are volunteers.

[gillmeister]

19 hours ago, LightningWB said:

Don't see why it couldn't work... Be really interesting to see any future proposals down the line, and more importantly as highlighted, who runs the competition(s)! 

Personally think the NCL should run them as NCL regional Cumbria etc 

[rugbylad09]

I agree with most of the comments on here. Typically div 2/3 teams aren’t strong at all (a few exceptions this season I may add with east Leeds) and there isn’t much between the divisions. The jumps into 1 and then prem are massive, with typically 2 promoted sides in the prem going down the following year. 
id like to see a world with ncl prem/1, ncl regional divisions which would flow upwards into div 1 and down into the regional leagues. Even with ncl prem winners having the chance of running into league 1, however rules and payments make that basically impossible. Would be A true pyramid as such. However it sounds a logistical nightmare.

[oldhamer]

Rugby League at grassroots level needs to change, more so at Open Age rugby. Players today have so many commitments throughout the year, and more so at weekends when they need to work, spend time with their partners/family, holidays etc. Times have changed so much for the working person, however, the game and it's organization hasn't.

In addition, costs are increasing for all clubs, so a different approach is also needed at club level. Rugby league may not be enough for some clubs to survive.

My thoughts would be the following :

Regionalize the NCL to the following areas :

1) Cumbria, Greater Manchester (may have 2 divisions), Merseyside / Cheshire, North/Central Yorkshire & South Yorkshire. 

Invite clubs outside the NCL to join to ensure that there is around 10/12 teams per division.

2) The above structure will allow games to be scheduled Friday/Weekday nights in the summer allowing players to have a few weekends free. In addition, coach travel costs would be greatly reduced.

3) At the end of the season, the top two teams of each division with the winners of the other leagues i.e. Midland, London etc, play for a National Cup with the prestige it used to have. Raise the profile, increase the sponsorship.

Places 3 & 4 plus the runners up in the other leagues like Midland, London etc play for the Trophy.

Places 5 & 6 plus the 3/4 placed teams in the other leagues like Midland, London etc, play for the Plate.

All the finals are played on one day at one venue.

[The 4 of Us]

Good to hear this growing some legs. I’ve certainly been involved in discussions at club level 4/5 years ago. I suggested it.

There’s all sorts of challenges and any suggestion those that can’t hack it just leave the competition are missing the what’s involved.

Quite apart from the whole societal changes to cope with, meaning less individuals committing to team sport in adulthood, it’s clear that the more successful community clubs are those that lose team fulls of players to scholarships and professional ranks., meaning it’s then harder to put out senior players in the future, those being lost in their late teens not like to return.

Throw in working at weekends, not wanting to lose income through injury or partners demands not to be away all day Saturday on a return trip to the outer reaches, it’s understandable why efforts need to be made to player closer to home, when players are not receiving an income from it.

However, quite apart from the extra costs incurred in the additional transport, the flip side is the increase in local matches which increase the crowds and clubs income.

The old NW Counties Premier division going back pre NCL had the likes of Woolston, UGB, Pilks, Leigh Miners, St Pats, Rose Bridge and the like and it was a healthy comp.

Have an NCL Premier if need be, but I like the idea of perhaps small regional conferences of no more that 8/10 clubs that feed into cross conference games which build up to a proper end of season grand final.

That way you make the best of the local and national profile.

[johnmatrix]

I wonder if it actually gets off the ground, there's some ideas on here which would work I'm sure. 

The professional game is struggling and looking to cut costs so I don't see why the community game wouldn't. The money lost on travel to the game could should increase investment to upgrade facilities or run development officers. The facilities of some clubs in the ncl are poor and rundown.

The people who suggest pull out if you can't afford are clueless tbh. 

[The Duke]

I’m not that close to the amateur game anymore - is there a consensus that it’s not working as it is ? 
 

or is it the dreaded summer/winter debate again ? 

[groundhopper]

I accept the issue of costs is a major issue.

However players want and need to be tested against the best opposition they can.

Possibly the 2 lower divisions could be regionalised. but if clubs from the top reaches of the NCL play their nearest opposition, the situation will be the same as the merging of the Championship and League 1.

Clubs choose to reach the standards of the NCL for a reason and whilst requirements of an A team, second pitch etc., are not as enforced as they were, I am not sure a fixture has been missed as yet in 2025 and clubs are aware of the consequence.

There are some good clubs at a lower level, the various league winners tend to do well in the Challenge Cup and I am sure many could survive in the lower levels of the NCL, but look at recent results in the NWC and Yorkshire and the fixture failure rate has been close to 50%, especially on cup weekends.

The idea of a Cumbria League sounds good but to give even 22 fixtures ie 12 teams would involve say Wath Brow, Kells, Hensingham, Elbra and Egremont playing Cockermouth Lowca Glasson Maryport Seation etc, some of whom can struggle for a full team. The scores would be horrendous, Including Millom and Barrow Island would help but neither Walney or Askham are playing at the moment and Barrow sides prefer to travel south.

I accept there are issues at present and I accept I am neither a player or fundraiser but I think regionalisation would only speed up the decline        

[johnmatrix]

I would keep the prem and probably div 1 as is, but that probably could be regionalised. 

The game is in decline already, the player numbers across the board are not what they were. Tbh the game needs a massive overhaul as others have suggested, it's not really just an NCL issue. 

The clubs are meeting the costs as I'm unaware of any fixture not going ahead, but that doesn't mean it's sustainable. 

 

 

 

[topcentre21]

There has been 0 fixtures missed to my knowledge in the NCL.

Why change whats not broken? Yes there maybe could be improvements,same as in every sporting league.

I would start with the regional leagues, they are a shadow of what they used to be.

 

Unfortunately every grassroot sport now plays 2nd or 3rd fiddle to people's everyday lives.

 

[gillmeister]

12 hours ago, topcentre21 said:

There has been 0 fixtures missed to my knowledge in the NCL.

Why change whats not broken? Yes there maybe could be improvements,same as in every sporting league.

I would start with the regional leagues, they are a shadow of what they used to be.

 

Unfortunately every grassroot sport now plays 2nd or 3rd fiddle to people's everyday lives.

 

I believe two games in division two didnt go ahead and got rearranged at very short notice. East Leeds v Hull Dockers being one

The issue I would suggest is that lower down the NCL pyramid some teams are travelling with less than 17 and scratch sides which could be avoided by regionalisation

[topcentre21]

19 hours ago, gillmeister said:

I believe two games in division two didnt go ahead and got rearranged at very short notice. East Leeds v Hull Dockers being one

The issue I would suggest is that lower down the NCL pyramid some teams are travelling with less than 17 and scratch sides which could be avoided by regionalisation

Sorry, I did see that game.

Teams travelling with less than 17 happens in regional leagues.

Not sure what the answer is if I'm honest.

 

[Death to the Rah Rah's]

Thornhill only travelled with 14 players to Hensingham on Saturday, not so many forfeited games, but not easy on the squads travelling without a full compliment of players, especially on hot days and hard pitches !

Would be nice if the RFL made a statement of some description as the rumour mill is in full flow at the min!