Your memories of the 2000 World Cup!

[The Hallucinating Goose]

I mentioned on the Ashes thread that I wasn't following the game 25 years ago and have never really looked into why the 2000 World Cup was a disaster.

Obviously, I know the attendances were rubbish. I'm presuming fans were put off by how one sided so many of the games were going to be given the increased number of teams in a time when the International game was very undeveloped. And I know there was a lot of venues in random places with no link to the game, so locals wouldn't be interested in going. 

Like I say, aside from those presumptions, I don't really know much about the tournament, so a nice bit of nostalgia, what are your memories of the 2000 World Cup??

[Damien]

I just answered your post on the other thread but here goes again:

- Terrible weather

- Train strikes

- Awful opening game live on the BBC in front of about 3k at Windsor Park. Shambolically presented for a WC opener and the lashing rain made it error ridden.

- That was followed later by England's game v Australia at Twickenham where England looked awful and got battered. Again a pretty poor game in awful weather

- Blow out scores

- NZ Maori being included

- First time really false feeling heritage teams came to the fore

- Weird venue choices coupled with the terrible weather led to some really low crowds that looked awful on TV

- England again being annihilated by NZ in the semi final

The opening day really couldn't have got off to a worse start and that just set the tone for what was to come. I think watching that first day would have put anyone off. What could go wrong did. Stuff like the weather absolutely contributed but the entire vibe felt a world away from 1995. It was trying to be a lot of things we weren't, and couldnt be then, with little investment to make all of the said choices work.

[gingerjon]

2 minutes ago, Damien said:

I just answered your post on the other thread but here goes again:

- Terrible weather

- Train strikes

- Awful opening game live on the BBC in front of about 3k at Windsor Park. Shambolically presented for a WC opener and the lashing rain made it error ridden.

- That was followed later by England's game v Australia at Twickenham where England looked awful and got battered. Again a pretty poor game in awful weather

- Blow out scores

- NZ Maori being included

- First time really false feeling heritage teams came to the fore

- Weird venue choices coupled with the terrible weather led to some really low crowds that looked awful on TV

- England again being annihilated by NZ in the semi final

The opening day really couldn't have got off to a worse start and that just set the tone for what was to come. I think watching that first day would have put anyone off. What could go wrong did. Stuff like the weather absolutely contributed but the entire vibe felt a world away from 1995. It was trying to be a lot of things we weren't, and couldnt be then, with little investment to make all of the said choices work.

I'll stick my reply here as well:

It was also a massive 'fake it till you make it' issue. We'd sold big time with both Sky and the BBC giving it decent coverage, as fans we'd bought into the whole thing being well sold in advance (as we were told) and that these teams represented a newly confident global game. This was slightly pre universal internet so people did not know where to look to know these claims were not real.

So we had a massive issue with expectation versus reality compounded by everything you say above, and then the kicker that the money coming did not match the bravado of the talk and so the game had fewer resources to deliver on the promises of both 2000 and 1995, and had a sudden squeeze domestically at a time when other sports were moving to being better set up for the 21st century.

I did really enjoy the games I went to - despite them being mostly poorly attended and very soggy. But it was a disaster.

[Damien]

This was the opening game in Belfast in front of empty stands. This was what sold the World Cup live on the BBC and it is every bit as bleak and grey as I remember:

 

 

[lemmy xaan]

It was one of those occasions when you don't let anyone know you watch RL. 

A perfect storm (literally) of monsoon rain in UK, ludicrous over ambition (esp venue choices and odd teams - Maoris?) and tepid marketing, and to cap it all an awful England team.

I remember well watching the "opening" game on Grandstand which was held at a fairly run-down venue in Dublin and when Des Lynam (I think) handed over, all you saw was empty terraces and sheeting rain. And he said something like, "Looks like there's no one there..."

I then went off to a half-empty Twickenham - which was never a good venue in those days - and got absolutely soaked. At the time, we were having one of the longest continuous periods of wind and rain - weeks of it. England got battered. 

From then on, it went from worse to worse. England just about beat Ireland in the QF and got smashed in the SF. 

After that, there was a general attitude in RL that world cups were just not for us. Choosing exotic venues is a lot easier than filling them so let's be very thankful for how well Everton has gone.

[lemmy xaan]

*Just seen the clip - apologies, Steve Rider

[gingerjon]

6 minutes ago, Damien said:

This was the opening game in Belfast in front of empty stands. This was what sold the World Cup live on the BBC and it is every bit as bleak and grey as I remember:

 

 

I was in the Cabbage Patch in Twickenham (fairly certain it was that one) and everyone was jolly - about to watch this game and then go to the other. It was quite full. Then the coverage came on from this game and ... honestly, I know memory plays tricks but I swear it was like a Hollywood silence when a stranger walks into a bar. It was as if the piano player stopped mid note.

I think we all knew then.

[Damien]

9 minutes ago, lemmy xaan said:

*Just seen the clip - apologies, Steve Rider

Mr smug would have been in his element. 

[Jack GB]

I was 15 at the time and remember 2 mIn things 

- Rain 

- Twickenham is a hole 

[Shaggy]

My first job out of uni was working on the official website. Got to go to Twickenham and the England-Ireland quarter final. 

Kept the press pass as a souvenir. Er... that's about all I can remember. 

[Moomintroll]

I went to the Wales v Australia SF at Huddersfield, and seeing the Welsh holding a 6 point lead at HT.

I remember the stadium being about two thirds empty too, which pretty much summed up the general attitude towards the tournament.

[sweaty craiq]

Remember Englands pack deciding to represent Ireland ie OConnor McDermott and Joynt 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

Was my first year actually watching Hull FC regularly. Didn't really know much about the international game. I remember going to watch Australia v Russia at the Boulevard and the roar of 3,000 people when Russia went over in the corner towards the end. And the boos when Sailor went over to take it past 100. Think it ended 110-4 iirc.

[Toby Chopra]

2 hours ago, gingerjon said:

I'll stick my reply here as well:

It was also a massive 'fake it till you make it' issue. We'd sold big time with both Sky and the BBC giving it decent coverage, as fans we'd bought into the whole thing being well sold in advance (as we were told) and that these teams represented a newly confident global game. This was slightly pre universal internet so people did not know where to look to know these claims were not real.

So we had a massive issue with expectation versus reality compounded by everything you say above, and then the kicker that the money coming did not match the bravado of the talk and so the game had fewer resources to deliver on the promises of both 2000 and 1995, and had a sudden squeeze domestically at a time when other sports were moving to being better set up for the 21st century.

I did really enjoy the games I went to - despite them being mostly poorly attended and very soggy. But it was a disaster.

All this is true, but a more unified and confident sport would have responded differently and ridden this out.

The tournament still made a profit so the sport should have learned lessons and made smart changes, and gone again in 2004. Instead we (and I'm really looking at the Aussies here as it was their turn) junked the idea entirely and left it 8 years before we attempted another world cup.

That's basically starting from scratch again which is a self inflicted wound in a battle to establish rugby league in the international event calendar. (And one we're basically repeating now)

[Just Browny]

Some pretty vivid memories of this one, I was about 14 at the time and pretty excited.

-Deflation of seeing the crowd at that first match (Ireland) on TV, but keeping the faith as it wasn't the 'proper' opening game.

- A much stronger sense of deflation watching the Australians dispatch us fairly easily in the opening ceremony game (again on TV, never even crossed our minds to go to Twickenham).

- I seem to remember the Millennium Stadium double header wasnt quite as painful, and Jiffy (on co-comms) copping some stick from the commentator for the leaky roof.

- Just that overall feeling of cringe and embarrassment each time you learned some team had been hit for 60+ points in front of 2000 people in random places like Reading or Gloucester.

I attended the Wales v PNG QF at Widnes (dour and wet), the SF at Bolton (angry, wet, and a traffic nightmare even with a poor crowd), and the final. The final wasnt that bad an event even though Australia were levels above everyone else at that time.

I do remember some positive aspects: the group France were in was competitive and the crowds over there probably held up better than in the UK. The England v Ireland QF was quite competitive - Ireland had a better pack than England - and the Wales v Australia semi was exciting. 

But overall it was as bad as everyone remembers. The schedule was far too optimistic, the weather was ridiculous and the rugby was largely forgettable.

[Leyther_Matt]

5 of us (aged 13-16) went to the final for my mate’s birthday but that was the only one I went to.

Remember watching most of the games on telly (Scotland v NZ Māoris at Firhill springs to mind) and the random venues (Reading, Watford and the like) just didn’t work. Presumably nowhere near the same effort went in to 2000 as it did in 2013 when you think of the packed house in Bristol etc

Could be wrong but wasn’t there a petrol shortage to go along with the weather and train strikes?

3 hours ago, lemmy xaan said:

remember well watching the "opening" game on Grandstand which was held at a fairly run-down venue in Dublin

Belfast. They get a bit uppity at that kind of thing, I believe.

Although until seeing the clip earlier I always had it in my head that it was at Tolka Park rather than Windsor Park. 

[Maximus Decimus]

I've put a larger reply on the other thread, but I'll add a couple more tidbits.

It was the first time we'd really used heritage teams. We're somewhat used to it now, and dare I say we'd become a bit numb to it until the most recent WC. We were literally creating nations from scratch and then copping a lot of criticism for it. I used to (and still do) cringe when I heard a deep northern or Australian voice interviewed prior to a game.

My own personal experience was the QF at Widnes which I remember being a dull and poorly attended game. I was about 17, and there was a Big 3 ticket thing (Twickenham, Millennium Stadium and maybe final), I looked into it but there wasn't anything I could do about transport.

[Maximus Decimus]

2 minutes ago, Leyther_Matt said:

5 of us (aged 13-16) went to the final for my mate’s birthday but that was the only one I went to.

Remember watching most of the games on telly (Scotland v NZ Māoris at Firhill springs to mind) and the random venues (Reading, Watford and the like) just didn’t work. Presumably nowhere near the same effort went in to 2000 as it did in 2013 when you think of the packed house in Bristol etc

Could be wrong but wasn’t there a petrol shortage to go along with the weather and train strikes?

Belfast. They get a bit uppity at that kind of thing, I believe.

Although until seeing the clip earlier I always had it in my head that it was at Tolka Park rather than Windsor Park. 

Their other games were in Dublin.

The petrol strike was at the end of that SL season. I know because I walked from Widnes to St Helens to watch them against Wigan.

[Maximus Decimus]

3 minutes ago, Leyther_Matt said:

5 of us (aged 13-16) went to the final for my mate’s birthday but that was the only one I went to.

Remember watching most of the games on telly (Scotland v NZ Māoris at Firhill springs to mind) and the random venues (Reading, Watford and the like) just didn’t work. Presumably nowhere near the same effort went in to 2000 as it did in 2013 when you think of the packed house in Bristol etc

Could be wrong but wasn’t there a petrol shortage to go along with the weather and train strikes?

Belfast. They get a bit uppity at that kind of thing, I believe.

Although until seeing the clip earlier I always had it in my head that it was at Tolka Park rather than Windsor Park. 

I'm of the opinion that 2013 was the exact opposite of 2000. It wasn’t that they organised it that badly, they were just naive and expanded too quickly. Off the back of 1995, I think they just presumed it would be a similar success.

In 2013, they realised what they were up against, and tried everything they could think of to get people in. It was also lucky in the same way 2000 wasn't.

The most recent WC showed that those pitfalls are still there, because essentially a lot of the RLWC is built on foundations of sand.

[Damien]

1 hour ago, Just Browny said:

- Just that overall feeling of cringe and embarrassment each time you learned some team had been hit for 60+ points in front of 2000 people in random places like Reading or Gloucester.

This was the worst. Sure I may moan about the games flaws on here but I'll blindly defend it to the hilt with outsiders looking to mock.

At this World Cup though I just had nothing and the longer it went on the worse it got. All the criticism was valid. The game having the TV coverage we long craved, which subsequently backfired big time to the extent that the BBC scaled back subsequently, just made it worse. I can still feel the embarrassment of the whole thing now.

Edited September 7 by Damien

[Maximus Decimus]

6 minutes ago, Damien said:

This was the worst. Sure I may moan about the games flaws on here but I'll blindly defend it to the hilt with outsiders looking to mock.

At this World Cup though I just had nothing and the longer it went on the worse it got. All the criticism was valid. The game having the TV coverage we long craved, which subsequently backfired big time to the extent that the BBC scaled back subsequently, just made it worse. I can still feel the embarrassment of the whole thing now.

25 years on, you can almost laugh at how much of a calamity it was. Literally everything that could go wrong did.

The QF against Ireland was one game where at least you could enjoy the match. It had a full-blooded crowd and was a tight game.

Then the semi-final came. I don't think it's being hyperbolic to say that it is in the discussion for worst ever England/GB results. It's one thing being dominated by Australia, and another NZ. It was also somewhat unexpected.

This comes back to my first point. The tournament could've been a farce, the crowds bad, the weather bad, and England could've underperformed.

But no England had to be humiliated. I probably thought God was a Union fan at that moment.

[Just Browny]

Was it in the qualifiers for the 2000 World Cup where Russia drew a crowd of 32,000 for one match, possibly in Kazan? Russia were nowhere near world cup standard but they were actually a bona fide team who played mostly in Russia - another window of opportunity we missed.

[Welshleaguelover]

I was only a 7 years old at the time and have no real memory of it. I can only imagine it was down to half hearted, mickey mouse organisation like the majority of things that don't work out in rugby league.

[Maximus Decimus]

24 minutes ago, Just Browny said:

Was it in the qualifiers for the 2000 World Cup where Russia drew a crowd of 32,000 for one match, possibly in Kazan? Russia were nowhere near world cup standard but they were actually a bona fide team who played mostly in Russia - another window of opportunity we missed.

You're getting a bit mixed up I think.

There was a Russia-USA friendly that randomly got like 33,000 fans at the national stadium in Moscow.

There was an international student tournament or something held in Kazan that had 16,000 attend the first day.

Russia was a real area of potential. They actually had numerous clubs playing the game across many leagues etc. From memory, it was a mixture of in-fighting and an en masse switch to Union that killed it.

[The Hallucinating Goose]

Why were ticket sales so bad, even in heartland locations? Presumably they were purchased in advance, so did people already anticipate that the tournament would be a failure before deciding not to buy tickets? Or was ticketing operated in a completely different way?