Championship structure

[Mr Plow]

What’s happening next year? Geographical conferences? Conferences based on form? How will the Grand Final work?

[Bring back GB]

1 hour ago, Mr Plow said:

What’s happening next year? Geographical conferences? Conferences based on form? How will the Grand Final work?

From Barrow Raiders website....

We have seen a number of posters asking to better understand the format for the Championship next season. This is what we know so far....

 

With the new Championship format likely to include the 21 teams not in Super League it is accepted that we won’t be playing 40 games. The RFL have yet to formally approve the methodology of creating the fixture list and will no doubt wait until the make-up of Super League is confirmed on 16th October. They have, however, indicated that there will either be 12 or 13 home games with a pendulum model used to derive the fixtures. The pendulum model is designed to ensure that, based on this season’s league table, the quality of opposition gets slightly easier the lower down the table you finished. This should avoid the likes of Featherstone and Oldham putting a cricket score on Newcastle. Clearly with the best sides having a tougher fixture list the integrity of the league could be questioned but the champions will be decided by play-offs with the likelihood of a top 8 system introduced. Our season ticket prices are based on 12 games but we will honour the price should there be 13 games.

 

Just for information there were only two clubs who voted to retain the Championship and League One; Barrow Raiders and Featherstone Rovers. But we now have what we have so we just need to make the most of it and ensure that we are challenging for the play-offs.

[Gooleboy]

9 hours ago, Bring back GB said:

From Barrow Raiders website....

We have seen a number of posters asking to better understand the format for the Championship next season. This is what we know so far....

 

With the new Championship format likely to include the 21 teams not in Super League it is accepted that we won’t be playing 40 games. The RFL have yet to formally approve the methodology of creating the fixture list and will no doubt wait until the make-up of Super League is confirmed on 16th October. They have, however, indicated that there will either be 12 or 13 home games with a pendulum model used to derive the fixtures. The pendulum model is designed to ensure that, based on this season’s league table, the quality of opposition gets slightly easier the lower down the table you finished. This should avoid the likes of Featherstone and Oldham putting a cricket score on Newcastle. Clearly with the best sides having a tougher fixture list the integrity of the league could be questioned but the champions will be decided by play-offs with the likelihood of a top 8 system introduced. Our season ticket prices are based on 12 games but we will honour the price should there be 13 games.

 

Just for information there were only two clubs who voted to retain the Championship and League One; Barrow Raiders and Featherstone Rovers. But we now have what we have so we just need to make the most of it and ensure that we are challenging for the play-offs.

What an absolute farce this will be, with a meaningless league table.

[RP London]

10 hours ago, Bring back GB said:

From Barrow Raiders website....

We have seen a number of posters asking to better understand the format for the Championship next season. This is what we know so far....

 

With the new Championship format likely to include the 21 teams not in Super League it is accepted that we won’t be playing 40 games. The RFL have yet to formally approve the methodology of creating the fixture list and will no doubt wait until the make-up of Super League is confirmed on 16th October. They have, however, indicated that there will either be 12 or 13 home games with a pendulum model used to derive the fixtures. The pendulum model is designed to ensure that, based on this season’s league table, the quality of opposition gets slightly easier the lower down the table you finished. This should avoid the likes of Featherstone and Oldham putting a cricket score on Newcastle. Clearly with the best sides having a tougher fixture list the integrity of the league could be questioned but the champions will be decided by play-offs with the likelihood of a top 8 system introduced. Our season ticket prices are based on 12 games but we will honour the price should there be 13 games.

 

Just for information there were only two clubs who voted to retain the Championship and League One; Barrow Raiders and Featherstone Rovers. But we now have what we have so we just need to make the most of it and ensure that we are challenging for the play-offs.

Interesting.. that, I believe, is similar to how some of the NFL fixtures are picked.. Play your division twice, then on a rotating basis another division, then an algorithm based on last performances gets you the rest or something along those lines. 

I'd like to see conferences for the tables personally just becuase I'd like the old trophies brought back as they beat anything we have hands down. 

While the table may be seen as meaningless in a comp where play offs decide the champions that is actually ok IMHO. the world is changing and that seems to be ok now (look at the champions league etc).

[Magicman]

So they want 14 in superleague to avoid loop fixtures but want to introduce a pendulum swing based competition in the championship, lord give me strength. 

[Ainley Top]

4 minutes ago, Magicman said:

So they want 14 in superleague to avoid loop fixtures but want to introduce a pendulum swing based competition in the championship, lord give me strength. 

It's unbelievable isn't it? My personal belief is they won't be happy until all teams outside SL don't exist. The game is all but finished really.

[Fevrover]

8 minutes ago, Ainley Top said:

It's unbelievable isn't it? My personal belief is they won't be happy until all teams outside SL don't exist. The game is all but finished really.

It's going backwards sadly but SL chairmen don't care about any thing apart from SL and their teams. How is this structure going to entice fans to pay good money to watch what is literally a complete farce?

[tim2]

1 hour ago, Gooleboy said:

What an absolute farce this will be, with a meaningless league table.

When it was "one big league" back in the 70s and in other periods of the game, nobody played everybody twice. In 1973, before they split, 30 teams played 34 matches each with the top 16 going into the play-offs. Dewsbury (with Stevo) won the title from 8th place. 21 teams, 24/26 matches and 8 in the playoffs seems reasonable. The best teams will rise to the top.  

To win the title, Dewsbury beat the top 3 teams from the league phase. The top 16 also made up the new 1st division, with Wigan pipping York to the final place on points difference. 

[tim2]

25 minutes ago, RP London said:

Interesting.. that, I believe, is similar to how some of the NFL fixtures are picked.. Play your division twice, then on a rotating basis another division, then an algorithm based on last performances gets you the rest or something along those lines. 

I'd like to see conferences for the tables personally just becuase I'd like the old trophies brought back as they beat anything we have hands down. 

While the table may be seen as meaningless in a comp where play offs decide the champions that is actually ok IMHO. the world is changing and that seems to be ok now (look at the champions league etc).

It's not OK in Rugby League! Anything but P&R with 4 up and 4 down with local lads playing in winter isn't going to cut it!

[RP London]

5 minutes ago, tim2 said:

It's not OK in Rugby League! Anything but P&R with 4 up and 4 down with local lads playing in winter isn't going to cut it!

yes sorry, had a good weekend of girls rugby coaching and Uni open day visits so am far too upbeat and positive this morning. I appreciate the correction and normal service will be resumed.. 

bah.. terrible idea.. bovril.. teams from outside the M62 heavy industrial areas are evil... 

[Mr Plow]

8 minutes ago, tim2 said:

When it was "one big league" back in the 70s and in other periods of the game, nobody played everybody twice. In 1973, before they split, 30 teams played 34 matches each with the top 16 going into the play-offs. Dewsbury (with Stevo) won the title from 8th place. 21 teams, 24/26 matches and 8 in the playoffs seems reasonable. The best teams will rise to the top.  

To win the title, Dewsbury beat the top 3 teams from the league phase. The top 16 also made up the new 1st division, with Wigan pipping York to the final place on points difference. 

People have short memories. There’s no perfect structure, what’s been suggested sounds sensible for a 21 club Championship

[Toby Chopra]

8 minutes ago, Fevrover said:

It's going backwards sadly but SL chairmen don't care about any thing apart from SL and their teams. How is this structure going to entice fans to pay good money to watch what is literally a complete farce?

What's it got to do with Superleague? This is the format the Championship chairman have chosen as it preserves the heavyweight clashes and restores local rivalry games, while reducing the number of drubbings. 

I kinda like it, and over a whole season it will work itself out.

[tim2]

3 minutes ago, Mr Plow said:

People have short memories. There’s no perfect structure, what’s been suggested sounds sensible for a 21 club Championship

If you want an example of a genuinely bad idea, the 3 division structure with an 8 team second division was probably the one. 

[Fevrover]

16 minutes ago, tim2 said:

When it was "one big league" back in the 70s and in other periods of the game, nobody played everybody twice. In 1973, before they split, 30 teams played 34 matches each with the top 16 going into the play-offs. Dewsbury (with Stevo) won the title from 8th place. 21 teams, 24/26 matches and 8 in the playoffs seems reasonable. The best teams will rise to the top.  

To win the title, Dewsbury beat the top 3 teams from the league phase. The top 16 also made up the new 1st division, with Wigan pipping York to the final place on points difference. 

I remember it well - its changed since the 1970' s sadly. 

[Fevrover]

7 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:

What's it got to do with Superleague? This is the format the Championship chairman have chosen as it preserves the heavyweight clashes and restores local rivalry games, while reducing the number of drubbings. 

I kinda like it, and over a whole season it will work itself out.

They don't want loop fixtures but we can have them.

[RP London]

33 minutes ago, Magicman said:

So they want 14 in superleague to avoid loop fixtures but want to introduce a pendulum swing based competition in the championship, lord give me strength. 

The thing with Loop fixtures is that you play the same team too often and the novelty of that disappears, therefore those games are less well attended.. (whether that is what actually happens or not I'm not sure but it is the main crux of the argument and instinctively has merit).

With the larger league you get rid of the loop fixtures in league one, its squeezes the champ clubs for whom the structure was pretty good but its arguably the bottom that benefit here, so none super league focussed arguably. 

You cannot have 40 matches per season, the Court cases around head injuries along with general burn out (and maths of 52 weeks in the year etc) tell you that.. so how do you pick the fixtures? play everyone once, then what?? do we want blow outs etc?

This wasn't popular in the Champions league when it was announced but last season has been claimed as a success and a lot of teams have learnt about not worrying about the league table quite so much. 

maybe we try it and see? Otherwise we are back to the perennial debate of conferences etc

[RP London]

1 minute ago, Fevrover said:

They don't want loop fixtures but we can have them.

The loop fixture issue was about playing the same team too many times... not about the fact that you played teams an uneven amount of times. thats ok with play offs and always has been.. magic when there were 14 was an extra random game and not a major issue.

[tim2]

3 minutes ago, RP London said:

The thing with Loop fixtures is that you play the same team too often and the novelty of that disappears, therefore those games are less well attended.. (whether that is what actually happens or not I'm not sure but it is the main crux of the argument and instinctively has merit).

With the larger league you get rid of the loop fixtures in league one, its squeezes the champ clubs for whom the structure was pretty good but its arguably the bottom that benefit here, so none super league focussed arguably. 

You cannot have 40 matches per season, the Court cases around head injuries along with general burn out (and maths of 52 weeks in the year etc) tell you that.. so how do you pick the fixtures? play everyone once, then what?? do we want blow outs etc?

This wasn't popular in the Champions league when it was announced but last season has been claimed as a success and a lot of teams have learnt about not worrying about the league table quite so much. 

maybe we try it and see? Otherwise we are back to the perennial debate of conferences etc

Scottish football splits for the last part of the season but that's also weird, as the final table can have 7th place with more points than 6th place. Sadly no other sport compares to English football in its ability to have a huge P&R based league structure all the way to tier 10 (or whatever it is) and still have teams like Bournemouth competing near the top with an 11,000 seat stadium. They still have issues further down, and stadium and other requirements related to promotion. 

[georgeb1]

1 hour ago, Gooleboy said:

What an absolute farce this will be, with a meaningless league table.

and what do you suggest 

[Magicman]

9 minutes ago, RP London said:

The thing with Loop fixtures is that you play the same team too often and the novelty of that disappears, therefore those games are less well attended.. (whether that is what actually happens or not I'm not sure but it is the main crux of the argument and instinctively has merit).

With the larger league you get rid of the loop fixtures in league one, its squeezes the champ clubs for whom the structure was pretty good but its arguably the bottom that benefit here, so none super league focussed arguably. 

You cannot have 40 matches per season, the Court cases around head injuries along with general burn out (and maths of 52 weeks in the year etc) tell you that.. so how do you pick the fixtures? play everyone once, then what?? do we want blow outs etc?

This wasn't popular in the Champions league when it was announced but last season has been claimed as a success and a lot of teams have learnt about not worrying about the league table quite so much. 

maybe we try it and see? Otherwise we are back to the perennial debate of conferences etc

How about we leave the game alone , coaches , players and fans are fed up of constant chopping and changing, especially over half way through the season. 

[Gooleboy]

1 minute ago, georgeb1 said:

and what do you suggest 

Not my job to suggest, but as you are asking, staying as 2 divisions is better than this.

[Toby Chopra]

33 minutes ago, Fevrover said:

They don't want loop fixtures but we can have them.

The model floated recently doesn't have loop fixtures. But even if it did, that would be the championship chairmen's choice, not Superleague's. With 21 teams, there's certainly no need for loop fixtures.

[Toby Chopra]

24 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

Not my job to suggest, but as you are asking, staying as 2 divisions is better than this.

Two divisions of 10/11 either involves loop fixtures - which everyone complains about - or not enough games, which everyone also complains about. 

There are different ways to do a single league, but doing it is definitely the best option on my view.

[RP London]

48 minutes ago, Magicman said:

How about we leave the game alone , coaches , players and fans are fed up of constant chopping and changing, especially over half way through the season. 

Look at pretty much every thread on here and you wont get an argument from me in terms of leaving things alone for a while... the coup and Mr Wood has been a stain on the game and the subsequent changes that are due to them. 

However, I am also a big believer in living in the world we live in and not the one I want to.. therefore discussing how to make the best of a bad situation like this one. 

(oh and as s slight aside League one was an utter mess, something did need to change for that to be a better league and to help it and IIRC pretty much all coaches and players were saying that.)

Edited October 6 by RP London

[RP London]

46 minutes ago, Gooleboy said:

Not my job to suggest, but as you are asking, staying as 2 divisions is better than this.

and yet every year people have been complaining about league one not having enough fixtures, being lopsided etc etc.. 

Nothing is perfect, as has been said already, but what is the best of a bad situation..