Championship structure

[Worzel]

12 hours ago, Bring back GB said:

From Barrow Raiders website....

We have seen a number of posters asking to better understand the format for the Championship next season. This is what we know so far....

 

With the new Championship format likely to include the 21 teams not in Super League it is accepted that we won’t be playing 40 games. The RFL have yet to formally approve the methodology of creating the fixture list and will no doubt wait until the make-up of Super League is confirmed on 16th October. They have, however, indicated that there will either be 12 or 13 home games with a pendulum model used to derive the fixtures. The pendulum model is designed to ensure that, based on this season’s league table, the quality of opposition gets slightly easier the lower down the table you finished. This should avoid the likes of Featherstone and Oldham putting a cricket score on Newcastle. Clearly with the best sides having a tougher fixture list the integrity of the league could be questioned but the champions will be decided by play-offs with the likelihood of a top 8 system introduced. Our season ticket prices are based on 12 games but we will honour the price should there be 13 games.

 

Just for information there were only two clubs who voted to retain the Championship and League One; Barrow Raiders and Featherstone Rovers. But we now have what we have so we just need to make the most of it and ensure that we are challenging for the play-offs.

So a season of meaningless friendlies, followed by an expanded play-off model where the only meaningful matches will be played? Sounds brilliant. Well done everyone, well done.

The pie-and-peas-mafia are geniuses, tear up that IMG contract now. 

[RP London]

6 minutes ago, Worzel said:

So a season of meaningless friendlies, followed by an expanded play-off model where the only meaningful matches will be played? Sounds brilliant. Well done everyone, well done.

The pie-and-peas-mafia are geniuses, tear up that IMG contract now. 

except you need to win those "meaningless friendlies" to earn a place in the play offs.. as you do at the moment .. any league that has a play off format could be viewed the same if you were that way inclined... so thats pretty much every sport except football 

[Toby Chopra]

10 minutes ago, Worzel said:

So a season of meaningless friendlies, followed by an expanded play-off model where the only meaningful matches will be played? Sounds brilliant. Well done everyone, well done.

The pie-and-peas-mafia are geniuses, tear up that IMG contract now. 

Why are the games meaningless friendlies? That doesn't make sense. You have to win enough games to make the playoffs in any league, and most teams won't, including in this one.

Plenty to criticise the powers that be about, but we don't need to make new problems where they don't exist. 

Edited October 6 by Toby Chopra

[Worzel]

6 minutes ago, RP London said:

except you need to win those "meaningless friendlies" to earn a place in the play offs.. as you do at the moment .. any league that has a play off format could be viewed the same if you were that way inclined... so thats pretty much every sport except football 

I failed to impart the correct tone, my bad. I've actually no real issue with this model. My point is that people who would otherwise argue for no loop fixtures, for automatic promotion and relegation etc etc will end up with this system in the Championship which is a very long way from their otherwise-stated prioritisation of traditional methods, and "fairness". It's genuinely hilarious to watch the cognitive dissonance. 

[RP London]

2 minutes ago, Worzel said:

I failed to impart the correct tone, my bad. I've actually no real issue with this model. My point is that people who would otherwise argue for no loop fixtures, for automatic promotion and relegation etc etc will end up with this system in the Championship which is a very long way from their otherwise-stated prioritisation of traditional methods, and "fairness". It's genuinely hilarious to watch the cognitive dissonance. 

fair enough... the problem of the written word you don't get the tone its said in.. unless of course its a DB press release 

[Magicman]

I wonder what teams will be playing off for , might be like bullseye back in the day , with jim bowen shouting , iiin one , a tin of bachelors mushy peas , iiin two our very own batley bulldogs meat and potato pie , iiiin three a pair of mick gledhills underpants , etc etc and bully's special prize a signed and framed Nigel wood jacamo jacket . Can't wait for the new season should be riveting. 

[Griff]

3 hours ago, Gooleboy said:

What an absolute farce this will be, with a meaningless league table.

What's your alternative plan?

We could have a straight knock-out tournament - jeopardy guaranteed in every game.

But it would be a very short season.

[Griff]

2 hours ago, RP London said:

Interesting.. that, I believe, is similar to how some of the NFL fixtures are picked.. Play your division twice, then on a rotating basis another division, then an algorithm based on last performances gets you the rest or something along those lines. 

I'd like to see conferences for the tables personally just becuase I'd like the old trophies brought back as they beat anything we have hands down. 

How will your conferences work ?

[Griff]

2 hours ago, tim2 said:

If you want an example of a genuinely bad idea, the 3 division structure with an 8 team second division was probably the one. 

I loved that.  There were some memorable games that season.

[Griff]

2 hours ago, Fevrover said:

They don't want loop fixtures but we can have them.

There are no loop fixtures in this system as proposed.

[JonT]

2 hours ago, tim2 said:

 

To win the title, Dewsbury beat the top 3 teams from the league phase. The top 16 also made up the new 1st division, with Wigan pipping York to the final place on points difference. 

You had to remind me of that today of all days

[georgeb1]

2 hours ago, Gooleboy said:

Not my job to suggest, but as you are asking, staying as 2 divisions is better than this.

thanks for the reply, imo the large second tier competition is the way forward , yes we may lose a few of the minnows along the way but that would have happened anyway in the current system.

[Gav Wilson]

14 hours ago, Bring back GB said:

...This should avoid the likes of Featherstone and Oldham putting a cricket score on Newcastle...

Or Newcastle putting a cricket score on Featherstone...

[tuutaisrambo]

23 minutes ago, Gav Wilson said:

Or Newcastle putting a cricket score on Featherstone...

There might only be the cricket team left in Featherstone next season

[RP London]

2 hours ago, Griff said:

How will your conferences work ?

I dont know, not given it that much thought just like the trophies and would like them back... 

East & West... play each other twice the other conference once top 4 in each play off... east v west Grand final... as a very off the top of my head.. dont really mind, wont happen so not going too far on it... bit of a throw away 

[yipyee]

16 hours ago, Bring back GB said:

From Barrow Raiders website....

We have seen a number of posters asking to better understand the format for the Championship next season. This is what we know so far....

 

With the new Championship format likely to include the 21 teams not in Super League it is accepted that we won’t be playing 40 games. The RFL have yet to formally approve the methodology of creating the fixture list and will no doubt wait until the make-up of Super League is confirmed on 16th October. They have, however, indicated that there will either be 12 or 13 home games with a pendulum model used to derive the fixtures. The pendulum model is designed to ensure that, based on this season’s league table, the quality of opposition gets slightly easier the lower down the table you finished. This should avoid the likes of Featherstone and Oldham putting a cricket score on Newcastle. Clearly with the best sides having a tougher fixture list the integrity of the league could be questioned but the champions will be decided by play-offs with the likelihood of a top 8 system introduced. Our season ticket prices are based on 12 games but we will honour the price should there be 13 games.

 

Just for information there were only two clubs who voted to retain the Championship and League One; Barrow Raiders and Featherstone Rovers. But we now have what we have so we just need to make the most of it and ensure that we are challenging for the play-offs.

So when attendances add into IMG points how does this create a level playing field?

[yipyee]

21 minutes ago, RP London said:

I dont know, not given it that much thought just like the trophies and would like them back... 

East & West... play each other twice the other conference once top 4 in each play off... east v west Grand final... as a very off the top of my head.. dont really mind, wont happen so not going too far on it... bit of a throw away 

This system looks like a way to promote M62 clubs back upto the higher division and is the opposite to what they are trying to do with SL. It's anti expansion as to expand you need some clubs to fall down the leagues to be replaced with stronger expansion clubs. 

[yipyee]

2 hours ago, georgeb1 said:

thanks for the reply, imo the large second tier competition is the way forward , yes we may lose a few of the minnows along the way but that would have happened anyway in the current system.

The teams that are struggling are in or will be in league 1. Putting them back in the championship without fixing the issues isnt going to help

[Griff]

23 minutes ago, RP London said:

I dont know, not given it that much thought just like the trophies and would like them back... 

East & West... play each other twice the other conference once top 4 in each play off... east v west Grand final... as a very off the top of my head.. dont really mind, wont happen so not going too far on it... bit of a throw away 

You'd have a conference off 11 playing 30 games and a conference of 10 playing 29 games.  The 11 would need two byes, so they'd need 32 weeks to complete their league season.   It's too many weeks.  Not to mention the inequality of games between the two conferences, the probable wild differences in travel obligations and the disparity in ability between teams at the top and bottom of the conferences.

You're right that it won't happen..  There are reasons for that.

[RP London]

1 minute ago, yipyee said:

This system looks like a way to promote M62 clubs back upto the higher division and is the opposite to what they are trying to do with SL. It's anti expansion as to expand you need some clubs to fall down the leagues to be replaced with stronger expansion clubs. 

not sure why you quoted my post in that... 

however, I'd argue the structure they are looking to do is not anti expansion but can help with expansion clubs. At the moment they go into League One which is a bit of a meh league that isnt strong, doesnt play loads of matches etc.. to go into the stronger league and be able to play some stronger opposition (but with the pendulum equally not get thrashed too often) means that maybe some expansion teams will grow better and faster than at present. 

"Expansion" in reality though is rarely dependent on the structure of the top leagues (unless you want to bring in a proper pyramid where teams can move all the way through from amatuer start up to gradual professionalism rather than the current format of either stepping up massivly or forming a whole new club) and more about the investment in time and money at the grass roots.. too often we see expansion at the top as important where as in reality the expansion of junior teams and players that have it as a main sport from a young age is more important.

[RP London]

3 minutes ago, yipyee said:

The teams that are struggling are in or will be in league 1. Putting them back in the championship without fixing the issues isnt going to help

hence the pendulum idea i suppose.

[RP London]

1 minute ago, Griff said:

You'd have a conference off 11 playing 30 games and a conference of 10 playing 29 games.  The 11 would need two byes, so they'd need 32 weeks to complete their league season.   It's too many weeks.  Not to mention the inequality of games between the two conferences, the probable wild differences in travel obligations and the disparity in ability between teams at the top and bottom of the conferences.

You're right that it won't happen..  There are reasons for that.

none of that is insurmountable but I know the issue and its why I said it was a throw away and was becuase I like the trophies.... I really wasn't hiding it and it didnt need the "ah ha! look it wont work"... I've been on here long enough in the off seasons to have seen all the arguments both sides.. 

 

[Griff]

1 minute ago, RP London said:

none of that is insurmountable but I know the issue and its why I said it was a throw away and was becuase I like the trophies.... I really wasn't hiding it and it didnt need the "ah ha! look it wont work"... I've been on here long enough in the off seasons to have seen all the arguments both sides.. 

 

Well, they've decided what's going to happen, so there is indeed no point in coming up with alternatives.  I posted to explain why they didn't choose the conference option.

[RP London]

6 minutes ago, Griff said:

Well, they've decided what's going to happen, so there is indeed no point in coming up with alternatives.  I posted to explain why they didn't choose the conference option.

except that they havent decided (well maybe they have but not told anyone) as they dont even know how many are going to be in the league yet! they just said how the fixtures will be decided not how the division will be tabulated or anything.. 

again I dont think they will and I really dont care it was a throw away statement about the trophies.. but I'd be shocked if the owners of the brewery that is the RFL have managed yet to organise the basics behind the next boozy session of the none super league clubs in their own backyard! 

[Griff]

1 hour ago, RP London said:

except that they havent decided (well maybe they have but not told anyone) as they dont even know how many are going to be in the league yet! they just said how the fixtures will be decided not how the division will be tabulated or anything.. 

The only thing they haven't announced is whether clubs will have 12 or 13 fixtures.