PTB and ruck speed

[JWK]

I am a first time poster but things have really come to a head for me over the past two seasons and felt I had to express my feelings on a forum to see if I am in the minority.No doubt someone will correct me if I am wrong but having watched the two semis and  grand final in total there were two 6 again calls by the referees. This was less than the number given in  the first ten minutes of the NRL grand final which was as good a game as you are ever going to see.To me it is incredibly simple if players know they are going to be penalized they will stop messing about and the whole game speeds up.During live commentary refs call faster next time which came to a head on Saturday when Harry Smith not only didn't immediately release the attacker but stood behind him as he tried to play the ball.Liam Moore's response was clear the ruck next time Harry.The rules are clear and in no way open to interpretation so I simply do not know why there is a conscious decision not to enforce them.I have been watching and championing rugby league since I was a teenager in the mid 1960's watching around 50 live games a season for a large chunk of the intervening years and I am honestly not sure I would be engaged by the game if I was a casual viewer today.A great deal of money has been spent with IMG which will be wasted if the actual product on the field isn't allowed to be the best it can be by allowing players to express themselves with quicker rucks and more broken play rather than the 5 drives and kick against fully set defences which is the current situation in 80 % of just about every match.During replies to the topic regarding the upcoming test series officials somebody said, may be tongue in cheek, slow rucks will give england a better chance of beating the aussies.Is that really what the game is meant to be about? 

[Just Browny]

That Harry Smith incident was crazy and highlights what a rude awakening we will get in the test series if we are not careful.

[JWK]

Yes it was like a football referee threatening to penalize a defender for handball next time he did it.Bizarre.

[JDM]

Not to move this away from the original point but I think it's also worth asking if we have also done away with penalising a 'flop'.

The number of them that have gone unpenalised this year seems to have increased - from my own team and others.

Farrell's in the 25th minute on Saturday was so blatant and it took another 3-4 seconds for him to get off once he'd got involved after the tackle was complete.

[Harry Stottle]

Our refs are far to lenient in allowing to much 'mucking' about going on at the tackle, coaches encourage their charges to defensively slow play down as much as possible, if the refs stopped it and awarded free kicks the message would soon get across that they need to speed things up defensively.

As for the up coming test series, if we have SL refs officiating who persist in allowing slow PTB's the Aussies will have something to say about it and quite rightly so, play to the rules not regional interpretation.

[Dunbar]

53 minutes ago, JWK said:

I am a first time poster but things have really come to a head for me over the past two seasons and felt I had to express my feelings on a forum to see if I am in the minority.No doubt someone will correct me if I am wrong but having watched the two semis and  grand final in total there were two 6 again calls by the referees. This was less than the number given in  the first ten minutes of the NRL grand final which was as good a game as you are ever going to see.To me it is incredibly simple if players know they are going to be penalized they will stop messing about and the whole game speeds up.During live commentary refs call faster next time which came to a head on Saturday when Harry Smith not only didn't immediately release the attacker but stood behind him as he tried to play the ball.Liam Moore's response was clear the ruck next time Harry.The rules are clear and in no way open to interpretation so I simply do not know why there is a conscious decision not to enforce them.I have been watching and championing rugby league since I was a teenager in the mid 1960's watching around 50 live games a season for a large chunk of the intervening years and I am honestly not sure I would be engaged by the game if I was a casual viewer today.A great deal of money has been spent with IMG which will be wasted if the actual product on the field isn't allowed to be the best it can be by allowing players to express themselves with quicker rucks and more broken play rather than the 5 drives and kick against fully set defences which is the current situation in 80 % of just about every match.During replies to the topic regarding the upcoming test series officials somebody said, may be tongue in cheek, slow rucks will give england a better chance of beating the aussies.Is that really what the game is meant to be about? 

Unfortunately there seems to be a concensus that the NRL is better for the referee's enforcing the laws at the ruck and awarding a 6 again or a penalty, while simultaneously a concensus that when a Super League ref blows for a 6 again or a penalty, they are ruining the game and the 6 again allows sides too much advantage. 

[Harry Stottle]

5 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

Unfortunately there seems to be a concensus that the NRL is better for the referee's enforcing the laws at the ruck and awarding a 6 again or a penalty, while simultaneously a concensus that when a Super League ref blows for a 6 again or a penalty, they are ruining the game and the 6 again allows sides too much advantage. 

Well you watch enough of both leagues, give us your opinion which has the cleaner PTB?

[Sports Prophet]

13 minutes ago, JDM said:

Not to move this away from the original point but I think it's also worth asking if we have also done away with penalising a 'flop'.

The number of them that have gone unpenalised this year seems to have increased - from my own team and others.

Farrell's in the 25th minute on Saturday was so blatant and it took another 3-4 seconds for him to get off once he'd got involved after the tackle was complete.

 

Yep, the flops were instantly obvious to me too.

[Harry Stottle]

3 minutes ago, burningmuscles said:

For the good of the game, I hope a slow ruck will keeps things in perspective.

Excuse the question, but 'For the good of the game' I take it you mean keeping it as tight as possible on the scoreboard in the test series and to hell with playing fast entertaining rugby.

Edited October 13, 2025 by Harry Stottle

[Harry Stottle]

7 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Yep, the flops were instantly obvious to me too.

The two competeing teams on Saturday are the best examples of slowing down the opposition at the PTB in SL either wresting after a tackle as been effected, lying on or flopping, actively encouraged by their coaches and who can blame them if the refs allow it to happen. It works just carry on doing it.

Edited October 13, 2025 by Harry Stottle

[OriginalMrC]

The refs cant really win as SL fans dont really like the 6 again rule. I do agree there's too much going on at the play the ball. Pushing and shoving and people not stood square often gets ignored and should be penalised.

[Dunbar]

5 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

Well you watch enough of both leagues, give us your opinion which has the cleaner PTB?

The NRL, although not by as much as people say as we tend to talk in extremes.

One frustration is the fact that the NRL game stats show the speed of the play the ball for each side every game but ours do not, so there is no actual comparison, just assessment.

My point was more about the fan interpretation of the referee. The NRL Grand Final ref blew 11 penalties and awarded 9 set restarts. I wonder if our reaction to a Super League doing that is he is ruining the game.

[YCKonstantine]

There was so much nonsense (to use a nice word) going on at the PTB on Saturday night both defensively and offensively.

 

[JWK]

I don't understand the argument from fans regarding refs ruining the game.If players know rules will be enforced as they are in the nrl by and large players stop trying to bend/ break them and the intervention by referees by definition becomes less throughout the game for the right reasons.Also I have no idea how a team that has been transgressed against can be said to have received an unfair advantage. Agree wholeheartedly about the flop we got rid of contested scrums years ago to speed up the game and slightly tongue in cheek it could be argued there are sometimes nearly as many players in ruck as scrum.

[Bull Mania]

The flops are the big one for me. Especially the ones where the third man comes in and places his hand on top of the defender, stopping him getting up and slowing the ruck down.

Feel for the refs, they're damned if they do and damned if they don't but if the RFL come out and say we're going to be keen on this, and we will be keen on it throughout the season (not just the first 3 rounds) it should improve it.

[ivans82]

Also think its better to go back to the old rule when the player with the ball was on the ground with His ball carrying arm in contact with the ground , the would be tackler only had to put His hand on the player to deem He was tackled , rather  than has now someone drops on Him with everything Hes got .Nothing but a cheap shot in my book .

[The Blues Ox]

For me Saints are the best team at it in SL, controlling and slowing down the ruck, especially with the 3rd man in often coming in while attackers are already on the ground. Another pet hate recently is the Alex Walmsley play the ball, obviously he is not the only player to do this, he is the player that stands out most just stepping over the ball and I am surprised a group of full time officials have not at least made an attempt to tidy this up.

No doubt once the Aussies wipe the floor with us, a new directive will come in and we will see penalties a plenty around the ruck at the start of the season only for the rules to be forgotten again later in the season.

[Harry Stottle]

18 minutes ago, burningmuscles said:

Correct.

Besides, it's not fair to SL players, who won't be used to be a lightning fast ruck, through no fault of their own.

Conversely could it be said that playing with a slow PTB, numerous flops etc, would be unfair to the opposition who's game plan, tactics and methods are about speed?

[Click]

24 minutes ago, burningmuscles said:

Correct.

Besides, it's not fair to SL players, who won't be used to be a lightning fast ruck, through no fault of their own.

It's entirely their own fault 

[Harry Stottle]

3 minutes ago, Click said:

It's entirely their own fault 

Is it?

Coaches will take advantage of anything they can to their teams advantage, advising their charges to slow down the PTB as much as they can get away with is playing the referees not the rules. 

[Click]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

Is it?

Coaches will take advantage of anything they can to their teams advantage, advising their charges to slow down the PTB as much as they can get away with is playing the referees not the rules. 

Perhaps I was being abit hyperbolic with "entirely" but the players are the ones who are laying on and wrestling in the tackle so it is hardly no fault of theirs. 

 

[Worzel]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

The two competeing teams on Saturday are the best examples of slowing down the opposition at the PTB in SL either wresting after a tackle as been effected, lying on or flopping, actively encouraged by their coaches and who can blame them if the refs allow it to happen. It works just carry on doing it.

Hull KR have one of the better squads for playing an expansive game off a quick ruck, with Lewis, Litten and Morgue being lightening quick in the first 20 metres of acceleration and Tyrone May wandering around in his dinner suit within any broken defensive lines that occur as if he's playing touch footy on the beach. But seeing how Wigan have won stuff in the last 3 years, Peters, Ward and co. set the team up to succeed in the league as it is.

I'd far rather we had a more open game with less wrestle and groundwork, but we need the powers that be to change it. 

[Jonty58]

Interpretation of the rules may be a factor on how eager Australians are to play England in the future win or lose.

 

[Josef K]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

Our refs are far to lenient in allowing to much 'mucking' about going on at the tackle, coaches encourage their charges to defensively slow play down as much as possible, if the refs stopped it and awarded free kicks the message would soon get across that they need to speed things up defensively.

As for the up coming test series, if we have SL refs officiating who persist in allowing slow PTB's the Aussies will have something to say about it and quite rightly so, play to the rules not regional interpretation.

It needs to be sorted, the bosses that be must see like the rest of us that it is a shambles. 

[Worzel]

1 hour ago, Dunbar said:

My point was more about the fan interpretation of the referee. The NRL Grand Final ref blew 11 penalties and awarded 9 set restarts. I wonder if our reaction to a Super League doing that is he is ruining the game.

I think it would, yes, unfortunately. 

"Let the game flow" is always the cry. But if you "let the game flow" by not rigorously policing the ruck, then it doesn't flow at all. All it would take would be for refs to be clear where the line was in the first 15 mins, and then the game would genuinely flow. 

It's amusing in a way, because it used to be the other way around, with Super League seen as too fast (and to an extend less sophisticated) and the NRL having a greater emphasis on defensive nuance. But the 6-agains changed everything.