Sat 1st Nov: The Ashes (Game 2): England v Australia KO 2.30pm (BBC)

[League Express]

Sat 1st Nov: The Ashes (Game 2): England v Australia KO 2.30pm (BBC)

Discuss the game here.

Please don't accuse match officials of deliberate bias or cheating, or your posts will be removed and your account may be banned without further warning.

[Snowys Backside]

T....H.....U....M....P....I....N....G....!

[Chronicler of Chiswick]

When we last won the Ashes we were hammered in the first test at what is now Suncorp 37-15 in the three points for a try era. Lets not be hasty about predictions.

[Wakefield Ram]

I'll stick with my prediction 

England 6 Australia 32

Before anyone says it, this isn't about patriotism, I'd much rather we beat the Aussies.

[Damien]

I think England will perform much better and that it'll be much closer than people think. People talk about the Aussies getting better but we will get much better too.

[Widnes1989]

Australia by 30+. 

[Blind side johnny]

England will play better then run out of steam in the last 20 minutes when the Aussies walk in a couple more tries. It doesn't depend upon the coach or team selection - the competitions in which the respective skills are honed are miles apart.

I do hope that I am wrong with the outcome prediction but can't see it happening.

[Damien]

Australia team:

 

 

[StandOffHalf]

Australia 42-4

[StandOffHalf]

I think the tiny soccer in-goals at Everton could present problems. It may stifle the Australians to an extent, as they wouldn't be used to such limiting and dangerous playing conditions.

[Dunbar]

5 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

Australia 42-4

 

1 minute ago, StandOffHalf said:

I think the tiny soccer in-goals at Everton could present problems. It may stifle the Australians to an extent, as they wouldn't be used to such limiting and dangerous playing conditions.

If they are going to win 42-4 anyway, thank goodness for the stifling.

[Spidey]

4 minutes ago, StandOffHalf said:

I think the tiny soccer in-goals at Everton could present problems. It may stifle the Australians to an extent, as they wouldn't be used to such limiting and dangerous playing conditions.

Has that been confirmed? I thought the field was just as big as wembley, the in goals there were fine

[tuutaisrambo]

We'll be on top for the first 15 minutes..... buoyed on by hopefully a more intimidating atmosphere.

Need to take every half chance and hope they have an off day.

I'd imagine a renewed focus on our defence might keep things tighter for a little longer and if we do get in front miracles do happen.

In reality though the spine of that Kangaroo team is far too good for us to cope with.

8-30

[StandOffHalf]

England's edge defence between their halves and second-rowers has to improve, as does the mobility of their prop rotation.

For me, Welsby, Bateman and Walmsley should come out of the 17.

My run-on team would be:

BRIMSON, YOUNG, HERBIE, WARDLE, JOHNSTONE, WILLIAMS, SMITH, OLEDSKI, LITTEN, SMITHIES, KPP, TROUT, WATKINS

Interchange: McMeeken, Lees, Knowles, Lewis

[hunsletgreenandgold]

If we make the obvious changes most are calling for, i.e Brimson/Oledzki/Smithies in then we could play a tighter game. Ultimately I think it will still be a loss but it can't be a blow out or it genuinely will be another 20+ years until this happens again and it would be hard to argue against it. Aus by 8 - score prediction 16 - 24

[Dunbar]

So, things in England's favour

Australia can play better.  But so can England, they couldn't play much worse all things considered.

I think the fact that five of the England 13 hadn't played for 7 weeks or so is not discussed enough, particularly key attacking players like Williams and Farnworth. You would absolutely expect them to improve in game 2.

So much will come down to selections. We have to have better field position in this game, that comes down to fewer errors and better tactical kicking. I personally think that means Smith into #7 and either Lewis to the bench (or out of the 17 if we go with two 9's again).

After that, Smithies and Oledski into the 17. Oledski for Walmsley because despite Walmsley topping the metres carried (not a huge number anyway), his mobility in defence was exposed and that is a strength of Oledski who is very mobile defensively for a big man.

I would bring Smithies into the 17 for Bateman and move Trout to the edge. He offers more size and has shown his versatility in that role this year with 11 games for Leigh in the second row.

Finally, Brimson for Welsby. We need more of a threat out the back and better kick returns and Brimson offers that over Welsby who is just out of form and a second, must win, Ashes test is not a game to try and play into form.

But... will all that happen? I have a feeling that Wane will go with the same (or very similar) 17. His 'credit in the bank' comments will probably be followed with a 'they have a score to settle' comment, so no change.

For what it is worth, I think England will play better, offer a faster line and execute better than game one and so the scoreline will be closer. Hoping for a decider - but hoping, not expecting.

[George Watt]

41 minutes ago, Chronicler of Chiswick said:

When we last won the Ashes we were hammered in the first test at what is now Suncorp 37-15 in the three points for a try era. Lets not be hasty about predictions.

I was there in what was one of the most violent and brutal Test matches I have ever witnessed. Cliff Watson really got stuck into the Aussie pack with his Liverpool kisses - amazingly no one was sent off. 

For the next game in Sydney coach John Whiteley made 6 changes to the team including one in the halfbacks where he selected HKR's Roger Millward and he brought in a hooker with my namesake!

The changes worked and we won the next 2 played in Sydney.

Subsequently Whiteley said he had made several mistakes in selections for the first match.

 

[Archie Gordon]

Welsby, Lewis, Havard, Lees, Walmsley out.

Brimson, Smith, Oledski, Smithies, Watkins in.

Mobility the key for me.

[Hanover XIII]

Just now, Archie Gordon said:

Welsby, Lewis, Havard, Lees, Walmsley out.

Brimson, Smith, Oledski, Smithies, Watkins in.

Mobility the key for me.

Agree with pretty much all of that. I'd have Trout instead of Watkins though. Although I've not seen enough of the latter this year to say why and I have been impressed with Trout.

[Bull Mania]

I've tickets for Headingley so I'm praying for an England win, but I just don't see how Wane picks the team up. They must be crushed after Saturday. Add to that a lot of these players haven't been in top form for most of the year, we'd really have to pull something special out of the bag.

[Archie Gordon]

Just now, Hanover XIII said:

Agree with pretty much all of that. I'd have Trout instead of Watkins though. Although I've not seen enough of the latter this year to say why and I have been impressed with Trout.

To clarify, I'm keeping Trout in my 17.

[Archie Gordon]

11 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

...

I think the fact that five of the England 13 hadn't played for 7 weeks or so is not discussed enough, particularly key attacking players like Williams and Farnworth. You would absolutely expect them to improve in game 2.

...

Exactly.

[George Watt]

31 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Has that been confirmed? I thought the field was just as big as wembley, the in goals there were fine

I watched a 10 min highlight package of the Everton v Tottenham soccer match and the in goal areas looked smaller than the ones at Old Trafford. They could move the posts forward I suppose to give more space.

 

[Dunbar]

Just another word on the tactical kicking.

If you compare the back 5 of both sides.

Australia ran for 771 metres and England 551... a clear advantage for Australia.

But dive a bit deeper, and the England back 5 broke 23 tackles to the Australian's 13 and so we carried well.  So, why the difference in metres. Australia had 229 kick return metres and we had 57.

That is down to the fact that Australia were executing atttacking kicks and supressing metres while we were kicking for field position allowing returns. With better game management and fewer errors, it is possible for England's back 5 to show more of an attacking threat in this game.

Edited October 28 by Dunbar

[Thunder Road]

Afraid Australia could actually run riot.

Not sure what the weather is going to be like.

 

Cold driving rain with a strong wind could help us.

I would drop Welsby Lewis and Walmsley .