Sat 1st Nov: The Ashes (Game 2): England v Australia KO 2.30pm (BBC)

[Derwent]

The old saying is that forwards win games, backs determine by how many. No matter what changes are made I just don’t see an England pack that wins the battle from any combination in that squad.

Edited October 29, 2025 by Derwent

[Maximus Decimus]

3 minutes ago, Derwent said:

The old saying is that forwards win games, backs determine by how many. No matter what changes are made I just don’t see an England pack that wins the battle from any combination in that squad.

The obvious counter to this is England/GB.

There have been times when we've had the better or at the very least an equal pack, but still got tore apart in the backs.

The 6-0 WC final we outdid them on pretty much every stat regarding metres gained etc.

The problem this time is that we seem to be lesser than them in both areas. Whilst our backs are stronger than usual, we still seemed to really struggle to contain them when they swung the ball out.

[Maximus Decimus]

9 minutes ago, Agbrigg said:

Looking at the betting, England are getting 18 start which is more than they got last week. Personally I cant see an England win, but with some team changes and some of the others upping their game beating that handicap is achievable.

I was surprised by this. My experience is that the bookies aren't usually swayed too much by individual performances. My classic example is when we were +16 in 2001, won a game and were still +16 for game 2.

This suggests to me that they might be considering the change of referee as a potentially telling factor. Either that or they really were affected by both teams' performances.

[Derwent]

2 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

The obvious counter to this is England/GB.

There have been times when we've had the better or at the very least an equal pack, but still got tore apart in the backs.

The 6-0 WC final we outdid them on pretty much every stat regarding metres gained etc.

The problem this time is that we seem to be lesser than them in both areas. Whilst our backs are stronger than usual, we still seemed to really struggle to contain them when they swung the ball out.

I think people get too carried away with statistics sometimes. They don’t always tell the tale of the game. Sometimes dominance can be in the mind - James Graham interviewed Brett Kimmorley and Luke Ricketson the other week about the 2003 series, they said the level of belief and confidence in their squad won them that series. Kimmorley said “as a Kangaroo you are instilled with a belief that there is no on field scenario, real or imaginary, that we can’t win from”. 

[shrewsbury roughyed]

Smith not in the squad- so we assume he’s sticking with GW & ML. 

[Maximus Decimus]

5 minutes ago, Derwent said:

I think people get too carried away with statistics sometimes. They don’t always tell the tale of the game. Sometimes dominance can be in the mind - James Graham interviewed Brett Kimmorley and Luke Ricketson the other week about the 2003 series, they said the level of belief and confidence in their squad won them that series. Kimmorley said “as a Kangaroo you are instilled with a belief that there is no on field scenario, real or imaginary, that we can’t win from”. 

Tbf, I think we've seen this. Just think of all those examples where they won in the last minutes. They just don't seem to drop the ball when it matters do they?

[minch]

8 minutes ago, shrewsbury roughyed said:

Smith not in the squad- so we assume he’s sticking with GW & ML. 

Where have you seen this?

[N2022]

43 minutes ago, JohnM said:

Hit a concrete wall close to the pitch at Wingate and Finchley FC. (National League, I think).I trust this isn't going to be weaponised.

I think anyone aware of that incident would want it to spark a sensitively conducted discussion on what constitutes safe run-offs and perimeters to reduce the chances of similar occurring again, in the same way the club where it happened have now taken concrete walls away. Surely that doesn't constitute weaponisation of a tragedy.

[graveyard johnny]

16 minutes ago, Derwent said:

I think people get too carried away with statistics sometimes. 

apparently 78% of people in the east of England do compared with  only 62% of people in the west

[Dunbar]

2 hours ago, Derwent said:

England need to be better.

Australia will be better.

Only one winner I'm afraid. 

Luckily, that isn't how sport works. Sometimes teams don't play as well as they are able and sometimes the better team doesn't win. We can all name games where the underdog has come out on top, if that weren't the case, we would all just bet on the favourites every week and become millionaires.

Australia are favourites, and rightly so.

But that doesn't mean they are destined to win - there isn't 'only one winner'.

If English fans want to believe that so they are not disappointed then I get that.

But until the hooter goes at around 4.00pm Saturday, England can win and I am happy to feel that sense of hope and anticipation; I am still in the Schrödinger's cat superposition of outcomes when it comes to the Ashes.

[Dunbar]

2 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

I am still in the Schrödinger's cat superposition of outcomes when it comes to the Ashes

In case anyone was wondering, I have done a search and no-one has used that phrase on here before.

[RigbyLuger]

3 hours ago, N2022 said:

On the Churchill theme, did you shake your head mumbling 'oh no, no, no'? 

Do we know why Wane picked Brimson and Oledski having not been born here so not having grit and passion?

[Chrispmartha]

3 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

Do we know why Wane picked Brimson and Oledski having not been born here so not having grit and passion?

And Johnstone the Churchill reference might have been a bit sensitive with where he was born

[RigbyLuger]

4 minutes ago, Chrispmartha said:

And Johnstone the Churchill reference might have been a bit sensitive with where he was born

Great point!!! g

[shrewsbury roughyed]

30 minutes ago, minch said:

Where have you seen this?

Instagram. But it seems to have disappeared so maybe I’m mistaken. It has been known. 

[Derwent]

32 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:

apparently 78% of people in the east of England do compared with  only 62% of people in the west

Yeah but 88.47% of stats are completely made up.

[THE RED ROOSTER]

Looking forward to the game at the Hill-Dickinson stadium. I am now a soccer fan so probably the only time I am ever going there. Weighing up wheher to take the shuttle or the train to Sandhill from Lime Street, not a problem going to the ground but going back to Lime Street which way is quicker?

One jarring note in the Chasing History rolling video log of England's campaign at the end of his debrief in the aftermatch of the first test he asks for comments and there are none from the players. Where is the on-field leadership in this team ?

England have such a mental block about playing Australia that Kevin Brown revealed on the Back 10 podcast that Wayne Bennett had actualy brought a sports psychologist in to the team to get the mental attitude right and considering England got to the final it worked.

A bit late to engage a sports physchologist for this series but needed before the World Cup perhaps ?

[Agbrigg]

1 hour ago, Maximus Decimus said:

I was surprised by this. My experience is that the bookies aren't usually swayed too much by individual performances. My classic example is when we were +16 in 2001, won a game and were still +16 for game 2.

This suggests to me that they might be considering the change of referee as a potentially telling factor. Either that or they really were affected by both teams' performances.

In my opinion its not the ref, they wont think that deep. I backed the Aussies on -13 and it was easy money. I think the bookies have realised they over estimated how good England actually are 

[17 stone giant]

28 minutes ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

One jarring note in the Chasing History rolling video log of England's campaign at the end of his debrief in the aftermatch of the first test he asks for comments and there are none from the players. Where is the on-field leadership in this team?

That's in the changing room after the match. They then go back to the hotel and have a second and I would assume more thorough debrief, which you see right at the end.

That is when I would expect the players to be speaking out, having had plenty of time to reflect. Things are too raw and emotions will be too high in the changing room immediately after the match.

[St Reatham]

32 minutes ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

England have such a mental block about playing Australia that Kevin Brown revealed on the Back 10 podcast that Wayne Bennett had actualy brought a sports psychologist in to the team to get the mental attitude right and considering England got to the final it worked.

A bit late to engage a sports physchologist for this series but needed before the World Cup perhaps ?

Are we to assume that England aren’t using one already? If not, they should be. They should be using every resource available to try and get an edge, e.g. sports psychologist, nutritionist etc.

[StandOffHalf]

41 minutes ago, THE RED ROOSTER said:

One jarring note in the Chasing History rolling video log of England's campaign at the end of his debrief in the aftermatch of the first test he asks for comments and there are none from the players. Where is the on-field leadership in this team ?

 

 

I think Wane was wrapping up and said that in a rhetorical sense, not really wanting any input or comments. Plus, as 17 stone giant says, the players were ashamed, bereft, and shattered directly after the game.

Edited October 29, 2025 by StandOffHalf

[shrewsbury roughyed]

1 hour ago, shrewsbury roughyed said:

Smith not in the squad- so we assume he’s sticking with GW & ML. 

https://www.instagram.com/p/DQJo7TMDatm/?igsh=OHphdzNrZGZsenZ2
 

I knew I’d seen it! Thank God - I’m not hallucinating z

[RigbyLuger]

1 minute ago, shrewsbury roughyed said:

https://www.instagram.com/p/DQJo7TMDatm/?igsh=OHphdzNrZGZsenZ2
 

I knew I’d seen it! Thank God - I’m not hallucinating z

That's from 6 days ago (and also has your Instagram account attached to the link!)

[shrewsbury roughyed]

2 minutes ago, RigbyLuger said:

That's from 6 days ago (and also has your Instagram account attached to the link!)

Bloody hell! I AM hallucinating!

[Jonty58]

5 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Don't you remember one of the Morriss twins going at 100mph towards the try line then sliding down the abyss behind the dead ball line, and it has been a bone of contention for years at Old Trafford for the GF. 

You are correct it is an accident waiting to happen with the narrow in goal areas at football grounds but I doubt it will enter players minds.

Don’t forget Luke Lewis dislocating his shoulder at Langtree Park, that was the end of his Tour.