Shaun Wane Poll

[Tommygilf]

Did one after game one, now after game 3.

Any opinions changed?

Edited November 8 by Tommygilf

[Henson Park Old Firm]

I dont think Sam Burgess is the answer also........

[Damien]

I think its time for a change. I think Wane has had a decent run now and it feels like we have reached a natural end point where we havent really improved. We have blooded new players but are getting the same results when it really matters. This series was the litmus test for me and we look as far away as ever.

That said I do think some things he has been accused of have been grossly exaggerated too. I think hes changed things up far more than has been made out but we have still been found wanting. Our attack has been much maligned this series but I'd strongly suggest that is down to Lee Briers rather than Wane too.

Not sure who the obvious replacement is though beyond a club coach doubling up. With the criticism Wane gets, purely because of his Wigan connection, I cant see that working well.

Edited November 8 by Damien

[Tommygilf]

Just now, Damien said:

 Our attack has been much maligned this series but I'd strongly suggest that is down to Lee Briers rather than Wane too.

I agreed with most of the rest but just to pick up on this, doesn't Wane pick who he wants as his assistants? 

[Damien]

2 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I agreed with most of the rest but just to pick up on this, doesn't Wane pick who he wants as his assistants? 

Yes but it wasnt that long ago that Briers was lauded and credited with Wigan winning everything and Brisbane attacking well. Im not sure it was that controversial a choice.

Maybe the more inconvenient truth is that Australia's defence is just outstanding and we didnt have the players, or players experienced enough against that type of defence, to breach it.

[Wakey Til I Die]

Ideally he goes. But who replaces him? There isn’t an obvious choice. 

[Pen-Y-Bont Crusader]

3 minutes ago, Wakey Til I Die said:

Ideally he goes. But who replaces him? There isn’t an obvious choice. 

M Maguire.

[Tommygilf]

6 minutes ago, Damien said:

Yes but it wasnt that long ago that Briers was lauded and credited with Wigan winning everything and Brisbane attacking well. Im not sure it was that controversial a choice.

Maybe the more inconvenient truth is that Australia's defence is just outstanding and we didnt have the players, or players experienced enough against that type of defence, to breach it.

I don't buy that.

We were capable of making breaks, we just almost never did anything to actually try produce a break or test their defence beyond pretty basic rugby. The attacking tactics seemed to be to go toe to toe with them and man up in defence, then hope the grind produces something. It never worked of course.

I'm not saying Briers was a controversial choice, I'm just saying if it was his fault and Wane picked him and went with his ideas, then that is on Wane too.

[Damien]

6 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I don't buy that.

We were capable of making breaks, we just almost never did anything to actually try produce a break or test their defence beyond pretty basic rugby. The attacking tactics seemed to be to go toe to toe with them and man up in defence, then hope the grind produces something. It never worked of course.

I'm not saying Briers was a controversial choice, I'm just saying if it was his fault and Wane picked him and went with his ideas, then that is on Wane too.

Yeah this is just looking to frame anything to be Wanes fault. Coaches have attack assistant coaches for a reason.

Im happy for Wane to take the fall. Its time for a change and I don't think hes a great ambassador for English RL. However if you dont think this is on the players too and that they just may not be good enough or that it is not also on the attack coach who was brought in to do this then Im happy to agree to disagree.

[MZH]

Pretty much what others have said, I think he needs to go and be replaced by a younger, more forward thinking coach. However, I do worry about who that may be. I'd be a bit concerned if they gave it to Burgess.

[17 stone giant]

I would make a change. He's had a world cup, an Ashes, and a couple of other series, so I don't think anyone can say he hasn't had a fair go of things.

Unfortunately the two big events haven't worked out as we had hoped, and for me home series wins against Tonga and Samoa aren't enough for him to continue.

He seems like a very genuine guy, so it's unfortunate, but this is professional sport. You live and die by your results and unfortunately they haven't been good enough.

[Damien]

29 minutes ago, MZH said:

Pretty much what others have said, I think he needs to go and be replaced by a younger, more forward thinking coach. However, I do worry about who that may be. I'd be a bit concerned if they gave it to Burgess.

Bar him playing for England in the past and being well known I dont know why Burgess would even be in the frame. Based on what we have seen and heard he seems little more than a more eloquent Wane.

Edited November 8 by Damien

[EagleEyePie]

I don't think Wane's time has been as disastrous as some say, but it falls a long, long way short of being successful. When it came to the World Cup there was a lot of pessimism and claims that we would not only be behind the Aussies but also NZ, Tonga and Samoa too. Then we got off to a great start which raised hopes and made it all the more frustrating when we lost to Samoa and failed to reach the final.

We made some reasonable steps to suggest that we were building something in the series wins over Tonga and Samoa (they weren't great contests, but we were getting consistent performances from some key players).

In some ways I understand why Wane has stuck to selecting a lot of the same players, particularly in the spine. We'd never really had much consistency in the spine over the years and we were facing the prospect of the team having fewer games together for England. On paper consistency was a smart ploy. Up until this year it looked to be working.

Then comes 2025 and of our spine players that Wane has been looking to select, Welsby, Smith, Williams and Clark/Walker haven't been in the best of form and Victor Radley ruled himself out of selection.

In the space of one season the spine completely fell apart and Wane was left with the choice of picking out of form players or going away from the consistent selections that he'd been trying to build the team around.

Whatever your approach to team selection there's a degree of risk, but you have to be held accountable for your decisions and whether we could possibly have done better with other selections can't be known, but what is known is that many of the players he picked didn't perform and haven't really performed over the course of the season.

The problem with getting rid of Wane is that the new coach wouldn't have any meaningful time with the squad before the world cup. If we had a team full of world class players that wouldn't be an issue but I think we all acknowledge that to win a world cup we have top be able to play better than the sum of our parts and that's going to be difficult without adequate preparation.

If Wane does stay on (and I think that's possible for the reason mentioned above) then he and whatever coaching staff he assembles need to learn a lot of lessons from this series, introduce some fresh blood into the team and come up with some smarter game plans than just running phase after phase back through the middle.

[Pulga]

 

 

[dboy]

28 minutes ago, EagleEyePie said:

I don't think Wane's time has been as disastrous as some say, but it falls a long, long way short of being successful.

How could it have been any further from being successful?

The national side is no further forward, arguably it's behind, where it was when he took over.

In a global comp with only 1 other main competitor (NZ), that takes some doing!

I'm coming to the conclusion that EEP is Shaun Wane's mum.

Or Shaun Wane.

[Eddie]

Do we need a full time coach? I’d say clearly no we don’t, give it to a successful existing club coach. 

[EastLondonMike]

Keeping Wane for the World Cup would be the easy option. Bringing in a new coach and coaching set up with no scheduled games pre-world cup, and likely only one hastily arranged one - if any do get scheduled - is hardly the best prep, and not an ideal way to bring in change.

but I do feel change is needed. 

Wane had had 5 weeks with this squad and too often in today’s game they looked like they hadn’t played together before. And that was only a fraction of the problems. I like Shaun Wane, but it’s time for someone new.

Paul Rowley is the best coach in the UK currently - again IMO - and would like to see him have a crack, with the likes of Sam Burgess involved also - as an assistant coach.

i think that would be a good place to start.

[17 stone giant]

Currently 35-1.

I didn't know Shaun Wane used this forum.

[The 4 of Us]

Don’t know how it can seriously debated that Shaun Wane continues. Bearing you chest and manifesting Winston Churchill doesn’t make up for a lack of tactical planning or knowledge. Someone needs to chuck half a million at Shaun Edwards to change player pathways and be the England coach. 

[Wakey Til I Die]

3 hours ago, Pen-Y-Bont Crusader said:

M Maguire.

Just can’t see the broncos allowing it. 

[M j M]

He has to go and he should have gone after the World Cup disaster. 

Brian McDermott would be a good option if his NRL club allows it. 

[Alan Robertson]

With an (hypothetical) unlimited budget, who should we pick as our next coach? (assuming that Wane is sacked)

I think we should use the answer to that question as our starting point and work from there. Here are some ideas and 'categories':

Aussie 'Supercoach level' would be Robinson, Bellamy...

English with NRL (assistant coach) experience: Agar, McDermott, Briers...

Aussie but with recent SL experience: Peters, Arthur...

Inspirational (former) England player: Burgess, Graham...

Successful English SL coach: Peet

'Overperforming' SL coach: Lam

With unlimited money, I actually think Robinson could do an extremely good job.

With our 'likely' budget, I'm now leaning towards Lam.

[lucky 7]

For England/GB to be successful in the future would have to mean a reduction in the amount of overseas players in Super League. Stupid beyond stupid to have increased the quota to 10, which suits some clubs who only pay lip service to junior development preferring instead to take the easy option of has been and never was players from down under

[Jonty58]

1 hour ago, Alan Robertson said:

With an (hypothetical) unlimited budget, who should we pick as our next coach? (assuming that Wane is sacked)

I think we should use the answer to that question as our starting point and work from there. Here are some ideas and 'categories':

Aussie 'Supercoach level' would be Robinson, Bellamy...

English with NRL (assistant coach) experience: Agar, McDermott, Briers...

Aussie but with recent SL experience: Peters, Arthur...

Inspirational (former) England player: Burgess, Graham...

Successful English SL coach: Peet

'Overperforming' SL coach: Lam

With unlimited money, I actually think Robinson could do an extremely good job.

With our 'likely' budget, I'm now leaning towards Lam.

Cameron Smith.

He should have been the Kangaroos Coach for this Tour.

Walters seems more like a good bloke than a good Coach.

Edited November 9 by Jonty58

[Blotto]

14 minutes ago, lucky 7 said:

For England/GB to be successful in the future would have to mean a reduction in the amount of overseas players in Super League. Stupid beyond stupid to have increased the quota to 10, which suits some clubs who only pay lip service to junior development preferring instead to take the easy option of has been and never was players from down under

With two new Clubs starting up in the NRL in the next few years, good players coming over will reduce and you will be back to Players funding their imminent retirement!