“Reserve” clubs

[Simon Hall]

I reckon this deserves its own thread so as not to take over others, and will be a big ongoing talking point now one of the big boys is involved.

Rumours on Twitter that Wigan have taken over NW Crusaders with the plan to run them as a reserve/academy club, similar to what York are doing with Newcastle. 

Thoughts?
 

 

[american]

torn about it. North Wales have every right to be a market the same way Wigan do. I don't want partnerships such as this to take away from smaller club's ability to grow and do a Leigh/Wakey/KR 

[shrewsbury roughyed]

I can understand it from both clubs’ perspectives but in principle it doesn’t sit well with me. Where are the dreams, the ambition of the ‘feeder’ club to be self sustaining and competing successfully at a higher level themselves. I can live with loan signings; I thought dual reg was too much and am not aware that but worked effectively long term for anyone. This I can only see benefitting the bigger club short term and apart from a bit of publicity and some short term player loans I can’t see long term, sustainable benefits for the ‘lesser’ partner. I can envisage shared training facilities and expertise and player development would benefit the lower ranked club; but the likelihood remains that the higher club would cream off any talent that they spotted. I’ve been watching rugby league far too long to believe that in reality any altruism from the top clubs in joining with the rest is highly unlikely. It will be one way traffic and reinforce differentials between those that have and those that don’t. Only my opinion, though.

[american]

2 minutes ago, shrewsbury roughyed said:

It will be one way traffic and reinforce differentials between those that have and those that don’t.

Exactly. Is it a true partnership or are Newcastle/North Wales being relegated to just another tentacle of a bigger club's talent pathway

[DEANO]

I think it’s pathetic. There is no way I would want my club to be a feeder club

[Tommygilf]

I personally think so long as the relationship works for both it can be good, though naturally, the junior club will want to eventually outgrow that relationship. I certainly think that in Fev or Salford's case this year, a SL club could have been heavily involved in setting them up on a playing front at least for example. York and Newcastle already have this arrangement.

 

Part of me thinks though that if we are going to see effective "B" teams in the lower leagues, we should see them independent of existing lower league teams. Let Leeds set up a "Bramley/West Leeds", "Harrogate" or "East Leeds", Wigan a "Preston" or "Manchester" etc.

This sort of set up, with additional sides, would have saved League 1 too.

[OldRedEyes]

Hull KR have significant investment with Goole but keeping it very hush. Not sure the reasoning on the silence and the lack of public announcements  

Scott Taylor and several of their players have been in and around pre-season at Craven Park. 

[Futtocks]

Mixed feelings.

A properly symbiotic partnership could bring long-term financial stability to the precarious state of some lower league clubs, share promotional resources and let the latter grow with fewer survival panics. 

Many of those smaller clubs are not going to elevate into the fully professional ranks during the careers of their most talented current players, so a pathway also makes sense.

But if it is just harvesting the results of youth development and giving nothing back apart from the occasional injury-prone veteran, that's a different matter.

And no contract is open-ended. It doesn't have to be a permanent relationshp.

[Gav Wilson]

56 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:

I personally think so long as the relationship works for both it can be good, though naturally, the junior club will want to eventually outgrow that relationship. I certainly think that in Fev or Salford's case this year, a SL club could have been heavily involved in setting them up on a playing front at least for example. York and Newcastle already have this arrangement.

 

Part of me thinks though that if we are going to see effective "B" teams in the lower leagues, we should see them independent of existing lower league teams. Let Leeds set up a "Bramley/West Leeds", "Harrogate" or "East Leeds", Wigan a "Preston" or "Manchester" etc.

This sort of set up, with additional sides, would have saved League 1 too.

Leeds could call theirs Hunslet...

I suggested SL teams flesh out League 1 with reserve teams years ago, I dunno why they never pulled the trigger.

I'm excited for what the York/Newcastle partnership can achieve in the North East though!

[Tommygilf]

13 minutes ago, Gav Wilson said:

Leeds could call theirs Hunslet...

I suggested SL teams flesh out League 1 with reserve teams years ago, I dunno why they never pulled the trigger.

I'm excited for what the York/Newcastle partnership can achieve in the North East though!

I personally prefer SL clubs not taking over existing clubs tbh, but all for them setting up their own farm clubs or even running as an explicit B Team. As you say, this would have massively helped League 1 and we wouldn't have anywhere near as much of this lower division mess we now find.

I think there is a lot to be gained from these partnerships, in Newcastle's case I don't think they would exist without it frankly. I hope it bears the fruit it promises.

[DEANO]

22 minutes ago, Gav Wilson said:

Leeds could call theirs Hunslet...

I suggested SL teams flesh out League 1 with reserve teams years ago, I dunno why they never pulled the trigger.

I'm excited for what the York/Newcastle partnership can achieve in the North East though!

Would you be as excited if Newcastle was the super league club and York the reserves

[Gav Wilson]

Just now, DEANO said:

Would you be as excited if Newcastle was the super league club and York the reserves

In the Wasps era, absolutely. 

[DEANO]

8 minutes ago, Gav Wilson said:

In the Wasps era, absolutely. 

Wouldn’t have done for me I’d sooner fold than be a reserve team

[Expatknight]

8 minutes ago, DEANO said:

Wouldn’t have done for me I’d sooner fold than be a reserve team

And that my friends is exactly why the game is in the state it is.

something has to change or more clubs will disappear, who would have thought Featherstone would not be competing in any pro competition this year?
 

[sam4731]

This feels like we're ever approaching a completely closed shop.

[Gav Wilson]

14 minutes ago, DEANO said:

Wouldn’t have done for me I’d sooner fold than be a reserve team

Sound 

[The Blues Ox]

Beginning of the end for the lower leagues but it is what it is. 

[DEANO]

10 minutes ago, Expatknight said:

And that my friends is exactly why the game is in the state it is.

something has to change or more clubs will disappear, who would have thought Featherstone would not be competing in any pro competition this year?
 

Each to their own. If you want to watch someone’s reserves crack on

[Simon Hall]

23 minutes ago, DEANO said:

Wouldn’t have done for me I’d sooner fold than be a reserve team

Which is exactly what we did. 

[DEANO]

Thankfully we didn’t become a reserve club thereafter

[fearnowt]

2 hours ago, Simon Hall said:

I reckon this deserves its own thread so as not to take over others, and will be a big ongoing talking point now one of the big boys is involved.

Rumours on Twitter that Wigan have taken over NW Crusaders with the plan to run them as a reserve/academy club, similar to what York are doing with Newcastle. 

Thoughts?
 

 

Twitter???

Who's started this rumour? Donald Trump?

Sorry for the sarcastic reply, but only a few weeks ago people were claiming that our players were on strike, (none of these people were Crusaders fans by the way), and yet we probably now have the strongest squad since we formed.

Ironically, we beat Wigan reserves today and I have spent most of the day with some of our most die-hard fans, along with many Wigan fans, and heard nothing about this rumour. The club are also announcing a new signing tomorrow, hardly the sort of thing you do when you have been taken over by another club.

The current owners have been in place for a year now, and while there are one or two differences of opinion with the fans regarding off field matters, to their credit they have heavily invested in the playing squad. They don't take criticism very easily and don't like to admit to being wrong, so they don't come across as the sort of people who are likely to just give up and let another club take over after just one year in charge.

We have our challenges here, this is not an easy club to support and it's a miracle that we still have a club to be honest, but the fact that we have survived for so long against all the odds, is something that we are all very proud of.

We are North Wales Crusaders, and we are nobody's reserve team.

[Padge]

9 minutes ago, fearnowt said:

Twitter???

Who's started this rumour? Donald Trump?

Sorry for the sarcastic reply, but only a few weeks ago people were claiming that our players were on strike, (none of these people were Crusaders fans by the way), and yet we probably now have the strongest squad since we formed.

Ironically, we beat Wigan reserves today and I have spent most of the day with some of our most die-hard fans, along with many Wigan fans, and heard nothing about this rumour. The club are also announcing a new signing tomorrow, hardly the sort of thing you do when you have been taken over by another club.

The current owners have been in place for a year now, and while there are one or two differences of opinion with the fans regarding off field matters, to their credit they have heavily invested in the playing squad. They don't take criticism very easily and don't like to admit to being wrong, so they don't come across as the sort of people who are likely to just give up and let another club take over after just one year in charge.

We have our challenges here, this is not an easy club to support and it's a miracle that we still have a club to be honest, but the fact that we have survived for so long against all the odds, is something that we are all very proud of.

We are North Wales Crusaders, and we are nobody's reserve team.

I was impressed with my visit today, struck me as a club with a lot of pride, and rightly so.

[Griff]

13 hours ago, Tommygilf said:

I personally think so long as the relationship works for both it can be good, though naturally, the junior club will want to eventually outgrow that relationship. I certainly think that in Fev or Salford's case this year, a SL club could have been heavily involved in setting them up on a playing front at least for example. York and Newcastle already have this arrangement.

 

Part of me thinks though that if we are going to see effective "B" teams in the lower leagues, we should see them independent of existing lower league teams. Let Leeds set up a "Bramley/West Leeds", "Harrogate" or "East Leeds", Wigan a "Preston" or "Manchester" etc.

This sort of set up, with additional sides, would have saved League 1 too.

Yes, what happened to Bramley?

[dufftown1]

The game has a limited amount of resources. It can choose to share them or fight over them. 

People have a problem with 'feeder teams' because they are still clinging on to the hope a billionaire decides to throw money at them for a decade. But its not going to happen and still isnt going to make them sustainable. 

Lower league clubs should have 2 jobs. Get people through the door. Get kids playing. Everything else is a by-product of those two things. Its not 1973 anymore. Hunslet arent in competition with Leeds. Dewsbury arent winning the title. We can work together

 

[Tommygilf]

50 minutes ago, Griff said:

Yes, what happened to Bramley?

Gateshead Thunder got in instead?