Quick rucks

[hunsletgreenandgold]

I know this is getting mentioned in match threads but feels relevant enough to have a specific thread. 

First thoughts - I love it! It's make the games flow so much better. The games feel more intense because of it - feels very NRL. I think refs really need to be consistent and make sure this sticks - way too often we see things enforced first few rounds then everything reverts back to the old ways. The laying on and general slow rucks last season were horrendous and it's not a shock to many of us that Hull KR and Saints are struggling to adjust - that's not a dig, but they were both excellent exponents of slowing sides down and now they can't as easily it's showing. 

Does need fine tuning a bit - of you're doing to get defenders off the ball player quicker, the PTB should be executed correctly. Any rolling between the legs should be hammered as well. Doesn't look to be so far. 

Edited February 13 by hunsletgreenandgold

[HKRBob]

7 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

I know this is getting mentioned in match threads but feels relevant enough to have a specific thread. 

First thoughts - I love it! It's make the games flow so much better. The games feel more intense because of it - feels very NRL. I think refs really not to be consistent and make sure this sticks - way too often we see things enforced first few rounds then everything reverts back to the old ways. The laying on and general slow rucks last season were horrendous and it's not shock to many of us that Hull KR and Saints are struggling to adjust - that's not a dig, but they were both excellent exponents of slowing sides down and now they can't as easily it's showing. 

Does need fine tuning a bit - of you're doing to get defenders off the ball player quicker, the PTB should be executed correctly. Any rolling between the legs should be hammered as well. Doesn't look to be so far. 

I cant speak for Saints, but for us, if the season gets reffed like that we wont win the league and top 4 might be a struggle.

We have a pack that is light, but massively fit. If we are allowed to tackle in groups we are fine, but if we have to consistently go one on one and try and win the ruck against bigger men we won't.

Most probably knee jerk to the first game and will have to see how it settles down in the next 4 or 5 rounds.

[hunsletgreenandgold]

26 minutes ago, HKRBob said:

I cant speak for Saints, but for us, if the season gets reffed like that we wont win the league and top 4 might be a struggle.

We have a pack that is light, but massively fit. If we are allowed to tackle in groups we are fine, but if we have to consistently go one on one and try and win the ruck against bigger men we won't.

Most probably knee jerk to the first game and will have to see how it settles down in the next 4 or 5 rounds.

I don't think it prevents 2/3 defenders in tackles - it does stop the late 3rd man in and the slow peel offs that were so prevalent last season. I hope the refs stick to their guns on this - it's the players/coaches that need to adjust. KR will be fine, same as Saints and a couple of other sides will, it will just take a couple more rounds to learn how to play to it in both defence and attack. 

[HKRBob]

5 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

I don't think it prevents 2/3 defenders in tackles - it does stop the late 3rd man in and the slow peel offs that were so prevalent last season. I hope the refs stick to their guns on this - it's the players/coaches that need to adjust. KR will be fine, same as Saints and a couple of other sides will, it will just take a couple more rounds to learn how to play to it in both defence and attack. 

Some of our lads were definitely bamboozled by it... There were a few times when we were patting each other on the back as the ref was penalising us, so its definitely a work in progress 

[tiffers]

1 hour ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

I know this is getting mentioned in match threads but feels relevant enough to have a specific thread. 

First thoughts - I love it! It's make the games flow so much better. The games feel more intense because of it - feels very NRL. I think refs really need to be consistent and make sure this sticks - way too often we see things enforced first few rounds then everything reverts back to the old ways. The laying on and general slow rucks last season were horrendous and it's not a shock to many of us that Hull KR and Saints are struggling to adjust - that's not a dig, but they were both excellent exponents of slowing sides down and now they can't as easily it's showing. 

Does need fine tuning a bit - of you're doing to get defenders off the ball player quicker, the PTB should be executed correctly. Any rolling between the legs should be hammered as well. Doesn't look to be so far. 

From what I've seen so far it seems so much better. A lot quicker and free flowing. I'm really hoping it sticks and we don't return to type. The 3-in peel off and taking 7 seconds to complete a tackle is awful to watch and frustrating when you're building pressure. The epitome for me was when teams would just lie on in their own 10m line, concede the 6 again and try defend it by slow ruck speed. It was utterly infuriating at times as there was so little consequence to it. 

This feels a lot slicker and rewards the teams getting on the front foot. Fingers crossed we stick to it. 

[up the robins]

1 hour ago, HKRBob said:

I cant speak for Saints, but for us, if the season gets reffed like that we wont win the league and top 4 might be a struggle.

We have a pack that is light, but massively fit. If we are allowed to tackle in groups we are fine, but if we have to consistently go one on one and try and win the ruck against bigger men we won't.

Most probably knee jerk to the first game and will have to see how it settles down in the next 4 or 5 rounds.

On the other hand because of our speed particularly on dryer pitches we will be way to fast at the play the ball for the the big lads in the other teams. 

 

[corvusxiii]

I've missed all the games so far as I'm away but was going to ask the same question as the OP. Sounds very positive so far, I've been amazed how the authorities have allowed the spectacle to be be so degraded by sluggish and ugly slow ptbs. For no obvious reason. 

[St Reatham]

Looks like Adrian Lam isn’t impressed with the crackdown on the PTB:

https://www.alloutrugbyleague.co.uk/news/chill-out-leigh-leopards-call-1681337
 

I haven’t seen the Leigh game, but thought the game flowed perfectly well at Warrington v Saints, so maybe it was the Leigh/Leeds players not adapting to the new rules?

[Coggo]

They will have to stick with it. The next TV deal is coming up for negotiation.

Whatever coaches may say, it’s clear most people prefer to see a quicker ruck than get bored by the fat lads laying on. 

[Just Browny]

I am a sceptic really. I like a well-earned scoot, but don't really miss the Higham/Cantillon/Cunningham era where teams got massive rolls on from quick ptb after quick ptb, and there were a lot of drubbings.

[Damien]

1 hour ago, St Reatham said:

Looks like Adrian Lam isn’t impressed with the crackdown on the PTB:

https://www.alloutrugbyleague.co.uk/news/chill-out-leigh-leopards-call-1681337
 

I haven’t seen the Leigh game, but thought the game flowed perfectly well at Warrington v Saints, so maybe it was the Leigh/Leeds players not adapting to the new rules?

Seems a stupid statement. If you arent doing anything differently to last year then of course you are going to give away penalties. Everyone knew about this crackdown:

"We're not doing anything different from what we were doing last year and I presume it's happening at all teams in all games."

[Chrispmartha]

I’m 50/50 on it, I think it needs a bedding in period to properly judge it but at the moment I think it’s too inconsistent and I don’t like fans and players screaming for six agains or penalties at every play the ball.

it will suit some teams but not others, Saints were well known for slowing the ruck down, they may struggle to adapt same for Hull KR, but then on the flip side both teams can take advantage in attack.

[EagleEyePie]

I think it's been an improvement so far. The speed of the game is better and the rucks are less messy for the most part. 

Yes, there are some inconsistencies here and there and some frustrating moments. I noticed a few penalties given in pre season where it looked like defenders were being held in the ruck but the ref was blowing for penalties pretty quickly, but things like that will be covered in their post match reviews. 

No one wants to see a game where there are just lots of scoots from dummy half but I don't think I've noticed that so far. Just because the ruck is quicker doesn't mean the best option is for the acting half to keep running the ball. It should provide more occasions to target late retreating defenders but that opens up space out wide as much as down the middle. 

You can't make any definitive conclusions from a handful of Super League games but early signs seem to be that it's an improvement. 

[Maximus Decimus]

9 hours ago, corvusxiii said:

I've missed all the games so far as I'm away but was going to ask the same question as the OP. Sounds very positive so far, I've been amazed how the authorities have allowed the spectacle to be be so degraded by sluggish and ugly slow ptbs. For no obvious reason. 

This was very much my thought. I can remember when it came in, through Wigan and Huddersfield and how unpopular it was at the time. Literally nobody was thinking this was an improvement, it was just coming up with a justification for what would have previously been pretty blatant holding down.

My understanding was certainly that it had come from Australia and that we were following their example. After all, the sport is much bigger over there so we kind of bow down to their greater judgement.

As someone who only dips in and out these days, I was gobsmacked to find out in November that we were the ones persisting with the slow ruck and the Aussies had abandoned it long ago. They've always been better than us at RL, but we at least used to have the more entertaining spectacle because it was less rigid and structured.

[Maximus Decimus]

29 minutes ago, Damien said:

Seems a stupid statement. If you arent doing anything differently to last year then of course you are going to give away penalties. Everyone knew about this crackdown:

"We're not doing anything different from what we were doing last year and I presume it's happening at all teams in all games."

With a change like this, there's always going to be a bit of chaos in the opening rounds before it settles.

Hopefully with this, we'll end up with a happy medium. Probably not as fast as last night but definitely better than it was.

One thing speed creates is more broken play and opportunities for backs etc. If the line always has time to fully reset then those chances are few and far between. In theory, offence should have improved to counter it but the Ashes was enough proof that this clearly hasn't happened.

 

[JT RL]

Faster ptb really good. Next: get rid of high tackles.

[Maximus Decimus]

20 minutes ago, JT RL said:

Faster ptb really good. Next: get rid of high tackles.

As I said I dip in and out, what happened to the bit where any contact with the head even accidental was resulting in red cards?

I saw a couple last night where they didn't even really penalise it.

[Dunbar]

25 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

As I said I dip in and out, what happened to the bit where any contact with the head even accidental was resulting in red cards?

Everyone involved in the game complained about it and said it was ruining the sport, so they dropped it.

[dufftown1]

The faster PTB has been great in all the games ive seen. Big swings in momentum, things happening all the time, seemingly more space and more breaks.

Has needed to happen for years. No sympathy for teams struggling with it. If you struggle. Improve. 

Its a much more entertaining game. 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

59 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

As I said I dip in and out, what happened to the bit where any contact with the head even accidental was resulting in red cards?

I saw a couple last night where they didn't even really penalise it.

They saw the Nu Brown red card and realised how utterly ridiculous it was.

[Maximus Decimus]

30 minutes ago, dufftown1 said:

The faster PTB has been great in all the games ive seen. Big swings in momentum, things happening all the time, seemingly more space and more breaks.

Has needed to happen for years. No sympathy for teams struggling with it. If you struggle. Improve. 

Its a much more entertaining game. 

I don't think its hyperbolic to say that last night's game felt like the old Super League: a big passionate crowd and a fast paced game that was exciting.

There are concerns around blowouts, especially with the 14 teams and the faster pitches, but hopefully we end up with a much happier medium.

[dufftown1]

4 minutes ago, Maximus Decimus said:

I don't think its hyperbolic to say that last night's game felt like the old Super League: a big passionate crowd and a fast paced game that was exciting.

There are concerns around blowouts, especially with the 14 teams and the faster pitches, but hopefully we end up with a much happier medium.

Definitely will be blow outs. No problem with it though. 

But id rather see a team win by 60pts in exciting game than what were seeing the last few years where a team was winning by 30pts playing at a snails pace. 

[Forever Trinity]

I thought the ref was lenient with the Wire Warrington game, I can see Saints struggling in this area

[tiffers]

9 minutes ago, Forever Trinity said:

I thought the ref was lenient with the Wire Warrington game, I can see Saints struggling in this area

I can see walmsley struggling big time. He was opened up in the Ashes series, the highlights reel I saw from last night's game showed exactly the same again. If I was an opposition coach I'd be setting up to go after him on multiple consecutive tackles where he is in the line/not at marker. 

Big, immobile forwards will struggle when they start blowing. Makes for entertaining end to end stuff.

[corvusxiii]

3 hours ago, Maximus Decimus said:

This was very much my thought. I can remember when it came in, through Wigan and Huddersfield and how unpopular it was at the time. Literally nobody was thinking this was an improvement, it was just coming up with a justification for what would have previously been pretty blatant holding down.

My understanding was certainly that it had come from Australia and that we were following their example. After all, the sport is much bigger over there so we kind of bow down to their greater judgement.

As someone who only dips in and out these days, I was gobsmacked to find out in November that we were the ones persisting with the slow ruck and the Aussies had abandoned it long ago. They've always been better than us at RL, but we at least used to have the more entertaining spectacle because it was less rigid and structured.

Yes, it's taken me a few hours to remember but the reasoning was something like -if it's too easy to score with our quick PTBs then we'd struggle against the set Oz defences following their slow PTBs. Or summat. Glad it's changed though.