Super League greatest XIII

[M j M]

This is what ended up being voted for on Sky:

1 Tomkins

2 Hall

3 Lyon

4 Senior

5 Robinson

6 McGuire

7 Burrow

8 Morley

9 Roby

10 Peacock

11 Ellis

12 Liam Farrell

13 Sinfield

 

Part of the problem was that people were given a position to pick players in when you might want, for example, to select Morley or Peacock at second row (where Peacock won Man of Steel) rather than prop.

Given a complete free hand on where to pick people I'd have gone - 

1 Tomkins

2 Vainikolo

3 Lyon 

4 Senior

5 Hall

6 Sinfield

7 Long

8 Morley

9 Roby

10 Peacock

11 Ellis 

12 Sculthorpe

13 Andy Farrell

 

There have arguably been better stand offs and certainly better loose forwards than Sinfield - but he's probably the single most influential player in SL history, Leeds might have won one or two titles without him rather than eight, so I feel he has to be there. Stand off is where he played most of the big games and selecting him there means the aberration of excluding Panface is corrected. 

Strangely the comp seems a bit weak at centre - once you get past Senior they are all a bit middling. Obviously Lyon was a genius but he was only here a couple of years. But a couple of brilliant years is still better than the more average alternatives. 

Edited March 29 by M j M

[dboy]

I also liked Scott Gibbs (EDIT: but I wouldn't vote for him because he was mainly pre-SL  ), and would have thought Henry Paul would be in there too.

Edited March 29 by dboy

[M j M]

3 minutes ago, dboy said:

I also liked Scott Gibbs.

It'd be a bold move to include a player who made nine Super League appearances in the greatest ever Super League side. 

[dboy]

Just now, M j M said:

It'd be a bold move to include a player who made nine Super League appearances in the greatest ever Super League side. 

Ah...yes.

Timing, schmiming.

I was around a long time before Superleague...

[Futtocks]

I enjoyed the Headingley response to Samkins being the first player mentioned as the team was announced.

[Damien]

To expand on what I said on the match thread I wouldn't have a fair few of those in a greatest SL team.

There is not a chance that Farrell and Sinfield should be in it. Even as a Wigan fan I don't think Robinson should be in it either over Vainakolo, who is always one of the players that springs to mind when I think of the top SL wingers.

When it comes to the halves I think there are better halves and Long has to be in there. I think there is a fair bit of sentiment around the Burrow and Sinfield inclusions really.

Considering some of the great teams and players Bradford had, and they are probably the team I associate most with SL really as a brand, it's bizarre they haven't a single player in a team like that.

[M j M]

Agree Burrow probably shouldn't really be there. He wouldn't even be the starting scrum half in my Leeds Best of SL XIII (that would be McGuire). 

Sinfield we'll have to disagree, he directed title after title to Headingley and that influence is impossible to ignore for me. 

[Futtocks]

Maybe, as I suggested elsewhere, there were more young people voting who just don't remember the dizzy heights of Bullmania and the Awesome Foursome.

And maybe some older fans spaffing their votes away on Alex Murphy, Les Boyd, Ellery Hanley etc. because they didn't real the small print.

[Futtocks]

1 minute ago, M j M said:

Agree Burrow probably shouldn't really be there. He wouldn't even be the starting scrum half in my Leeds Best of SL XIII (that would be McGuire). 

Sinfield we'll have to disagree, he directed title after title to Headingley and that influence is impossible to ignore for me. 

Sinfield as a player? Probably not, good as he was.

Sinfield as a leader? Probably.

[M j M]

10 minutes ago, Futtocks said:

Maybe, as I suggested elsewhere, there were more young people voting who just don't remember the dizzy heights of Bullmania and the Awesome Foursome.

And maybe some older fans spaffing their votes away on Alex Murphy, Les Boyd, Ellery Hanley etc. because they didn't real the small print.

Fielden would maybe be the one - but, a bit like Iestyn Harris, his later years were notably less good than his earlier ones and that reduces the overall memory of his career. Other club hoppers like Peacock and Ellis maintained their standards through their different eras. 

[StandOffHalf]

22 minutes ago, Damien said:

To expand on what I said on the match thread I wouldn't have a fair few of those in a greatest SL team.

There is not a chance that Farrell and Sinfield should be in it. Even as a Wigan fan I don't think Robinson should be in it either over Vainakolo, who is always one of the players that springs to mind when I think of the top SL wingers.

When it comes to the halves I think there are better halves and Long has to be in there. I think there is a fair bit of sentiment around the Burrow and Sinfield inclusions really.

Considering some of the great teams and players Bradford had, and they are probably the team I associate most with SL really as a brand, it's bizarre they haven't a single player in a team like that.

Yeah, that Bradford team were the best club team in the world. They handily beat Penrith, Wests and Newcastle. Vainikolo should be one of the first names on this 30 year team.

Agree on Long as well, for sure. Burrow is there because of sentimentality.

[Andrew Foster]

Re: centres... Newlove?

And Les struggled at Bulls in 2002, but never looked back once he had Hape as his centre from the following season onwards.

[Andrew Foster]

35 minutes ago, Damien said:

Considering some of the great teams and players Bradford had, and they are probably the team I associate most with SL really as a brand, it's bizarre they haven't a single player in a team like that.

Both props in the Sky selection played their best rugby for Bradford

[M j M]

8 minutes ago, Andrew Foster said:

Re: centres... Newlove?

 

Have to admit I'm surprised how many Super League games Newlove and Gary Connolly played - 167 and 225 respectively. In my mind they are both pre-SL players but I'd probably include Newlove ahead of Lyon on that basis. 

[Damien]

6 minutes ago, Andrew Foster said:

Both props in the Sky selection played their best rugby for Bradford

Not sure if you are being serious, and I was aware they both played for Bradford when I said that, but to me both are far more synonymous with Leeds. If I think of the great Bradford players I wouldn't really think of those because I'd associate them with Leeds. 

[Padge]

Sinfield shouldn't be anywhere near, Burrow is there on pure sentiment, Farrell I don't get at all and as full-back Radlinski was far better than Samkins if you are taking the Wigan viewpoint. Oh and Lyon FFS, he did two seasons, may have impressed but he was never a major influence on the competition over a large part of 30 years.

The problem with these populist votes is teams with the most support are going to attract the most votes, then within the top teams the team with the most options for the best at position X is going to get a split vote, that reduces the chances of two great players getting in.

 

[RigbyLuger]

9 minutes ago, Padge said:

The problem with these populist votes is teams with the most support are going to attract the most votes, then within the top teams the team with the most options for the best at position X is going to get a split vote, that reduces the chances of two great players getting in.

 

It's just meaningless, and more so because it's down to who can be bothered to vote.

[Douglas]

Robbie Paul?

henry Paul?

Iestyn Harris?

keiron Cunningham?

sean long?

paul Sculthorpe?

 

[Wellsy4HullFC]

10 hours ago, M j M said:

This is what ended up being voted for on Sky:

1 Tomkins

2 Hall

3 Lyon

4 Senior

5 Robinson

6 McGuire

7 Burrow

8 Morley

9 Roby

10 Peacock

11 Ellis

12 Liam Farrell

13 Sinfield

 

Part of the problem was that people were given a position to pick players in when you might want, for example, to select Morley or Peacock at second row (where Peacock won Man of Steel) rather than prop.

Given a complete free hand on where to pick people I'd have gone - 

1 Tomkins

2 Vainikolo

3 Lyon 

4 Senior

5 Hall

6 Sinfield

7 Long

8 Morley

9 Roby

10 Peacock

11 Ellis 

12 Sculthorpe

13 Andy Farrell

 

There have arguably been better stand offs and certainly better loose forwards than Sinfield - but he's probably the single most influential player in SL history, Leeds might have won one or two titles without him rather than eight, so I feel he has to be there. Stand off is where he played most of the big games and selecting him there means the aberration of excluding Panface is corrected. 

Strangely the comp seems a bit weak at centre - once you get past Senior they are all a bit middling. Obviously Lyon was a genius but he was only here a couple of years. But a couple of brilliant years is still better than the more average alternatives. 

The good thing for me is that your team only consists of 2 overseas players. A lot of those players were from the same era though so it makes you wonder what's gone wrong since then in terms of development.

That Sky pick is a joke though. It looks like it was picked by a Leeds fan.

[minch]

Long has got to be 7.  No-one comes close IMO.

[Gerrumonside ref]

The pundits teams seemed closer to the mark for me than the fans team announced on Sky.

Some good ones on this thread.

 

 

[Harry Stottle]

I believe on good authority that a Mr and Mrs G Hetherington were the primary adjudicators on the team selection announced at half time yesterday by Sky.

Edited March 30 by Harry Stottle

[M j M]

19 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

I believe on good authority that a Mr and Mrs G Hetherington were the primary adjudicators on the team selection announced at half time yesterday by Sky.

It was a public vote.

[Hopie]

https://www.skysports.com/rugby-league/news/12196/13521279/super-league-greatest-xiii-the-results-of-your-votes-with-leeds-rhinos-st-helens-wigan-warriors-and-more-included

Percentages for each position are included in the article, looks like people were given five to choose from in each position. 

[dufftown1]

My view of Sinfield, McGuire and Burrow is that they are all hugely under-rated because they didnt play the traditional role people ascribe to the number on their backs. 

People will tell you for instance that Sinfield wasnt world class because he wasnt fast enough for the halves or big enough for loose. As if those are pre-requisites for those positions. What it forgets is that Burrow and McGuire, certainly early careers were absolutely lightening. And yes he wasnt a big loose forward but that he and Burrow could fill in very well at 9 meant leeds could often have an extra big lad on the bench. Sinfield wasnt an amazing defender in the pack, he has amazing for a half. 

When Leeds won 5 of 6 grand finals, each of those finals had an extra forward in the team because Burrow, McGuire and Sinfield could cover 6,7,9,13. 3 of them had all 3 starting and 3props and Ali on the bench. 1 Burrow on the bench and Clarkson covering 13 and one Burrow starting hooker and Bailey at 13.

Im pretty sure they started a CC final with Adam Cuthbertson as the nominal hooker because of the flexibility those players offered

Burrow won the harry sunderland at scrum half and hooker

Sinfielf at stand off and 13.

McGuire twice at scrum half having started his career as a running stand off. 

That they never really fit in to the traditional box is why they were success but also why some dont see them as comparable to others who filled a more traditional role, better. 

Edited March 30 by dufftown1