French RL and the Vichy government

[Douglas]

It’s probably been done to death on here but this great and interesting short video was recommended to me on YouTube by an Australian based RL YouTuber.

 

id obviously heard of the banning of RL during WW2 but not in such depth and details of what actually happened and just exactly how popular the game of RL was in France and was continuing to become prior to WW2.

Was there ever any legal pursuit launched by the French RL governing body for acknowledgement of past crimes and demands of reparations?

[Douglas]

Posted in wrong section !!

can the mods please move it to the general discussion section?

[doc]

Maybe this could help? Apologies if you've seen this before.

[Eddie]

While obviously what happened was appalling RL fans need to move on, it’s not the only reason that the game died in France, it was thriving long after WW2. 

[Hopie]

15 minutes ago, Eddie said:

While obviously what happened was appalling RL fans need to move on, it’s not the only reason that the game died in France, it was thriving long after WW2. 

It took a while for the full effects of the Vichy collaborators actions to come into effect, but that post war success was despite what happened, and how do you build on that success with no assets!
 

Learn the lessons of this history, and its echoes in similar events of disruption and sabotage elsewhere in history, some before and some much later. 

[Trebian]

16 hours ago, Douglas said:

It’s probably been done to death on here but this great and interesting short video was recommended to me on YouTube by an Australian based RL YouTuber.

 

id obviously heard of the banning of RL during WW2 but not in such depth and details of what actually happened and just exactly how popular the game of RL was in France and was continuing to become prior to WW2.

Was there ever any legal pursuit launched by the French RL governing body for acknowledgement of past crimes and demands of reparations?

I did hear demands being made for reparations a few years ago but unfortunately RL is too small to matter. It went nowhere.

Edited May 26 by Trebian

[RS]

Wasn’t the group called RL Activ or similar? I seem to remember the ageing owner of the famous, in RL terms, Bar Felix in Carcassonne headed it up. They gave it a good go but go nowhere IIRC. 

[lucky 7]

3 hours ago, Trebian said:

I did hear demands being made for reparations a few years ago but unfortunately RL is too small to matter. It went nowhere.

And its the game of the establishment in France like it is here.

[Damien]

10 hours ago, Hopie said:

It took a while for the full effects of the Vichy collaborators actions to come into effect, but that post war success was despite what happened, and how do you build on that success with no assets!
 

Learn the lessons of this history, and its echoes in similar events of disruption and sabotage elsewhere in history, some before and some much later. 

Plus all the usual obstacles when it came to schools etc too. When the establishment is against you, and often mayor's and local councils depending on which way the wind is blowing, it all has a cumulative effect over time.

[dkw]

11 hours ago, Eddie said:

While obviously what happened was appalling RL fans need to move on, it’s not the only reason that the game died in France, it was thriving long after WW2. 

It thrived for a while, but was constantly fighting off attacks from Union, Vichy didnt just last during the war, it gave union officials a framework to try and destroy the game over and over. 

The effects of the disgraceful thefts and bans were felt for decades.

[fcl]

Extensive lobbying was undertaken by the "XIII Actif" association, notably by Cliff Spracklen, an Englishman who recently passed away. This effort led to the reinstatement of the name "rugby league" and subsequently resonated with the Minister of Sport at the time, the communist Marie-Claude Buffet, who produced a report on sport under Nazi occupation. Successive presidents of the French Rugby League Federation (FFR13) since C.Zalduendo are determined to avoid any conflict with the XVs (rugby union) and maintain close ties with that federation. The current president, for example, would like to prioritize rugby league sections within XVs clubs in large cities, to the detriment of traditional clubs in small or medium-sized towns. Therefore, there is no question of demanding compensation, especially since, having studied the matter somewhat, there is no proper inventory of rugby league assets prior to their confiscation.

Edited May 27 by fcl

[The Future is League]

Its sad to say, but French Rugby League is never going to get back the money that was stolen from it by the Vichy government and then gifted to union.

We would probably be talking about a very large amount when interest is taken into account.

[Douglas]

On 25/05/2026 at 21:25, Eddie said:

While obviously what happened was appalling RL fans need to move on, it’s not the only reason that the game died in France, it was thriving long after WW2. 

How can you say move on when the game is owed tens of millions?

[gingerjon]

29 minutes ago, Douglas said:

How can you say move on when the game is owed tens of millions?

Are we also doing this for countries and colonisers, or just sports federations?

Either way, the key issue was raised earlier: there’s no inventory to check against.

[Eddie]

34 minutes ago, Douglas said:

How can you say move on when the game is owed tens of millions?

It isn’t. 

[Sports Prophet]

19 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Are we also doing this for countries and colonisers, or just sports federations?

No… and I’m not sure which side of the fence I sit on. 

[eal]

Vichy is probably French RL's greatest friend at this point, it has provided a giant get-out-of-jail card for the code for the last 80 years and allowed people to not look too deeply at the decades of chronic mismanagement and failure to adapt to the times. The golden age of French RL was the 1950s and 1960s so it is debatable if the game would be in any different situation now anyway, Vichy or no Vichy.

[Eddie]

43 minutes ago, eal said:

Vichy is probably French RL's greatest friend at this point, it has provided a giant get-out-of-jail card for the code for the last 80 years and allowed people to not look too deeply at the decades of chronic mismanagement and failure to adapt to the times. The golden age of French RL was the 1950s and 1960s so it is debatable if the game would be in any different situation now anyway, Vichy or no Vichy.

Same as Yawnion gets blamed for all English RL’s woes, when a lot of it is self inflicted. 

[Douglas]

On 28/05/2026 at 18:21, gingerjon said:

Are we also doing this for countries and colonisers, or just sports federations?

Either way, the key issue was raised earlier: there’s no inventory to check against.

Just sports federations.

 Colonialism was country on country theft while Vichy government was French on French theft.

[Douglas]

On 28/05/2026 at 18:26, Eddie said:

It isn’t. 

Lots of differing numbers at play here but 2 million French francs stolen plus accumulated interest and potential lost earnings over the succeeding 8 decades along with damages must surely equate to the low tens of millions?

I’ve seen a number quoted as €630 million which I find odd and hard to believe 

[Douglas]

1 hour ago, eal said:

Vichy is probably French RL's greatest friend at this point, it has provided a giant get-out-of-jail card for the code for the last 80 years and allowed people to not look too deeply at the decades of chronic mismanagement and failure to adapt to the times. The golden age of French RL was the 1950s and 1960s so it is debatable if the game would be in any different situation now anyway, Vichy or no Vichy.

You can quite easily separate both the stolen money and assets issue from the running of French RL post Vichy one.

[Hopie]

1 hour ago, eal said:

Vichy is probably French RL's greatest friend at this point, it has provided a giant get-out-of-jail card for the code for the last 80 years and allowed people to not look too deeply at the decades of chronic mismanagement and failure to adapt to the times. The golden age of French RL was the 1950s and 1960s so it is debatable if the game would be in any different situation now anyway, Vichy or no Vichy.

Quit trolling, or actually read before posting. 

[pahars]

On 27/05/2026 at 08:29, fcl said:

Extensive lobbying was undertaken by the "XIII Actif" association, notably by Cliff Spracklen, an Englishman who recently passed away. This effort led to the reinstatement of the name "rugby league" and subsequently resonated with the Minister of Sport at the time, the communist Marie-Claude Buffet, who produced a report on sport under Nazi occupation. Successive presidents of the French Rugby League Federation (FFR13) since C.Zalduendo are determined to avoid any conflict with the XVs (rugby union) and maintain close ties with that federation. The current president, for example, would like to prioritize rugby league sections within XVs clubs in large cities, to the detriment of traditional clubs in small or medium-sized towns. Therefore, there is no question of demanding compensation, especially since, having studied the matter somewhat, there is no proper inventory of rugby league assets prior to their confiscation.

Sad to hear that Cliff Spracklen has passed on. About 20 years ago he posted a really interesting post about why after the war League peaked then collapsed. 
 

The gist (as I remember it) was that De Gaulle was annoyed about being seen as weak compared to the Anglo Saxons and piled money in to Union to win the five nations.  

[Damien]

Just now, pahars said:

Sad to hear that Cliff Spracklen has passed on. About 20 years ago he posted a really interesting post about why after the war League peaked then collapsed. 
 

The gist (as I remember it) was that De Gaulle was annoyed about being seen as weak compared to the Anglo Saxons and piled money in to Union to win the five nations.  

Didn't he have a monthly article page in Open Rugby/Rugby League on French RL or am I imagining that?

[Joe Aitcheson]

We should NEVER let the injustices suffered by League around WW2, from rugger yawnion, to be forgotten. As we should never forget the actions in this country by the RFU…. amateurs banned from yawnion over the age of 18 for life for one game of league, etc, etc.  I have always been proud of my 2 life bans from yawnion ( playing league at uni in 72 to 75, and becoming a director of my local semi pro club in the 80s), and will always detest RU people for such practises. Never forget.