Friday and Saturday games

[Harry Stottle]

Now I realise before writing and publishing this post that I am going to have the wrath of the RPS - Referees Protection Society - criticising what I am about to say.

For me both the Wigan/Wire and Leigh/Cas games were completely spoiled by the pedantic incessant whistle blowing by the two guys officiating the games, I have been involved in this sport most probably longer than many of you have been on this earth and I remember very fondly the times when referees had a personality and would officiate the games by actually knowing what was going on and could interpret between the players on the field of play, most of today's faceless refs neither have the knowledge or experience to do such. Anyone who watched the two games cannot be impressed with the number of whistles, stoppages and interpretation of the rules. 

Moving on to the second game on Saturday, HKR/Cas, seemingly our top official Kendall was given this game as he 'IS OUR BEST', AND I agree in recent times he has much improved from the novice who started out, so why in our Premier game of the weekend did he revert back to his 'I want the camera more on and about me than the players on the field' this was a very prominent trait of his, I honestly thought he was getting much better.

I cannot think of a time when collectively our officials have had more influence on the  outcome of games than they do at the present time, not by anything premeditated but by their complete lack of understanding what the sport is all about that unavoidable collisions happen, bodies become entwined in tackles, players are not robots and just can't jump up and move away in a split second.

And no before I get the 'stock question', approaching my mid seventies I cannot take up refereeing, but I can lend on years and years of experience, and say in my opinion that our present batch of officials is the worst I have ever seen, now I will take criticism from those who can go back in time and lend on their own memory, but those who can't relate to past officials, don't bother,

[Thunder Road]

A well written piece Harry. 

We can all relate to your post.

 

 

[Sports Prophet]

1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:

Now I realise before writing and publishing this post that I am going to have the wrath of the RPS - Referees Protection Society - criticising what I am about to say.

For me both the Wigan/Wire and Leigh/Cas games were completely spoiled by the pedantic incessant whistle blowing by the two guys officiating the games, I have been involved in this sport most probably longer than many of you have been on this earth and I remember very fondly the times when referees had a personality and would officiate the games by actually knowing what was going on and could interpret between the players on the field of play, most of today's faceless refs neither have the knowledge or experience to do such. Anyone who watched the two games cannot be impressed with the number of whistles, stoppages and interpretation of the rules. 

Moving on to the second game on Saturday, HKR/Cas, seemingly our top official Kendall was given this game as he 'IS OUR BEST', AND I agree in recent times he has much improved from the novice who started out, so why in our Premier game of the weekend did he revert back to his 'I want the camera more on and about me than the players on the field' this was a very prominent trait of his, I honestly thought he was getting much better.

I cannot think of a time when collectively our officials have had more influence on the  outcome of games than they do at the present time, not by anything premeditated but by their complete lack of understanding what the sport is all about that unavoidable collisions happen, bodies become entwined in tackles, players are not robots and just can't jump up and move away in a split second.

And no before I get the 'stock question', approaching my mid seventies I cannot take up refereeing, but I can lend on years and years of experience, and say in my opinion that our present batch of officials is the worst I have ever seen, now I will take criticism from those who can go back in time and lend on their own memory, but those who can't relate to past officials, don't bother,

Now you’ve gone and done it. Like a bloody car crash, I am gonna have to go and watch these two fixtures and I fear the worst  

I hope we can continue this thread without personal attacks on the referees, rather balanced and fair critique… I suspect not though and the thread to be closed swiftly.

So I will get my piece in. When I look at the referees in England, I do not see dominant personalities and I hazard a guess this is because many of the top grade referees exhibit skills and behaviours learned from a lawbook or a classroom, rather than having excessively experienced the game with the ball in their hand in their formative years. This in turn diminishes a referee’s ability to foresee or action on what is about to, or has just transpired.

They have a very tough job. No one should ever expect perfect from them. Consistency in its self would be hard enough.

[Coggo]

My view is there’s become more and more adjudication - endless replays, camera angles and replays of replays - to the point where we’ve lost sight of rugby league’s raison d’etre of a being a spectator sport. 

It’s becoming more like yawnion with each passing year in that respect.

[Archie Gordon]

There is certainly zero reason why we need to hear them non-stop for 80 mins.

[Click]

1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:

Another cop out, complety expected, just admit you have not a clue what I am relating to.

Is your point that referees in the pre SL era were better because they had personalities or something?

How could I possibly know for sure, I wasn't around pre SL right? 

The fact is the game has never been as hard to referee and manage as it is right now, with pressure on referees higher than it has been in the past. 

[Harry Stottle]

17 minutes ago, Click said:

Is your point that referees in the pre SL era were better because they had personalities or something?

How could I possibly know for sure, I wasn't around pre SL right? 

The fact is the game has never been as hard to referee and manage as it is right now, with pressure on referees higher than it has been in the past. 

Firstly a very simple question, did you watch the 3 games I am referring to in the opening post, and that is also related to all the emoji posters with no positive input.

Did you think the standard of refereeing acceptable for a sport that prides itself as a leading sport in this country? 

OK, acceptable the sport with the new rules is increasingly harder to be officiated, so what is being done about it, how will it be improved, not with Phil Bentham it won't, and the reason I suspect you bring that up iis that you recognise it is very substandard  officiating and something is very much amiss.  And yes Refs from previous times still had a rule book to comply with but they did have their own personality and expressed it on the field of play not just pedantic whistle blowing like today's group exhibit but taking the incidents on merit and interpreting them as they saw fit.

[LeeF]

2 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

Now you’ve gone and done it. Like a bloody car crash, I am gonna have to go and watch these two fixtures and I fear the worst  

I hope we can continue this thread without personal attacks on the referees, rather balanced and fair critique… I suspect not though and the thread to be closed swiftly.

So I will get my piece in. When I look at the referees in England, I do not see dominant personalities and I hazard a guess this is because many of the top grade referees exhibit skills and behaviours learned from a lawbook or a classroom, rather than having excessively experienced the game with the ball in their hand in their formative years. This in turn diminishes a referee’s ability to foresee or action on what is about to, or has just transpired.

They have a very tough job. No one should ever expect perfect from them. Consistency in its self would be hard enough.

I wouldn’t waste your time looking for the HKR/Cas game. You might struggle to find it

[Vambo]

Very rare for me to say this ... In fact ... It's the first time I ever have...

I thought Kendall had a good game.

About time a ref showed some authority when it comes to dissent.

Good on him I say.

Alas I didn't get into RL until 1989 but what I do remember standing out to me back then was the refs refusal to take any back chat from the players.

[johnh1]

Which 70s refs are you referring to, Harry? I remember watching Eric Clay, John Houldsworth, Fred Lindop, Whitfield, Russell Smith and a few others. They may be 80s, possibly. But I don't think they were better than todays. Today's refs are under far more scrutiny with televised games, slow mo replays and video refs. As well as many more rule changes. In the 70's a high tackle wasn't high unless it was a stiff arm around the throat.

By the way, I think the best ref we have at the moment is Tara Jones.

[Harry Stottle]

7 minutes ago, johnh1 said:

Which 70s refs are you referring to, Harry? I remember watching Eric Clay, John Houldsworth, Fred Lindop, Whitfield, Russell Smith and a few others. They may be 80s, possibly. But I don't think they were better than todays. Today's refs are under far more scrutiny with televised games, slow mo replays and video refs. As well as many more rule changes. In the 70's a high tackle wasn't high unless it was a stiff arm around the throat.

By the way, I think the best ref we have at the moment is Tara Jones.

Again as said by others John, obviously youw words reflect and make excuses god totally inept officials operating under the rules they have to play with, not many differences in the NRL rules, but they have adapted far better than our ref's.

[Taffy Tiger]

Have been watching RL for over 50 years now . 

I don't think we can compare the two to be fair . 

Every decision is scrutinised now and so refs mistakes are there for all to see. They do make a lot of mistakes but so did the refs of yesteryear as well . There have been a few standout refs that I remember in the past. One was Fred Lindop , the other two were John Holdsworth and Russell Smith (who went on to officiate in the NRL , he was that good) . Sadly , as a Cas fan , both Holdsworth and Smith were never allowed to ref Cas games as they were both from the Cas area . There were also some refs that weren't too bad as well , however there was a lot of rubbish out there too . It just wasn't seen by anyone who didn't attend the matches . There was no TV coverage of note until SL and so refs performances weren't analysed in the way there are now.

The problem for me regarding the current crop of refs is that they are nowhere near experienced enough to make the step up from the Championship to SL . The reason being that we have a shortage of officials . Unfortunately this means that we are seeing refs who are younger and younger officiating SL games . It's way too soon for some of them . In an ideal world new refs should be doing video refereeing duties in SL , one or two a week, and combining this with being out in the middle , actually refereeing a Championship game each week. 

Young and upcoming refs know the rule book inside out and as well as any experienced ref , but they don't have the experience to ref a SL game in the same way .

 

[Harry Stottle]

AOB or Welsby? No contest whatsoever.

And the highlight was that a prop who gave Sailor a meter start and cought him within 30?

[Harry Stottle]

Just now, Harry Stottle said:

AOB or Welsby? No contest whatsoever.

And the highlight was that a prop who gave Sailor a meter start and cought him within 30?

Sorry chaps wrong thread. 

[Rugbyleaguesupporter]

I dont think standards have fallen, but officiating has moved from a more principles based one to one focused on the letter of the law 

My biggest bug bear is continual stoppage and forensic assessment of referee decisions- im ok with mistakes- prefer these with a flowing game than constant stop start 

[JohnM]

6 hours ago, Thunder Road said:

A well written piece Harry. 

We can all relate to your post.

 

 

No we can't.  You don't speak for me.  Watching Swinton in the late 1950s and early 1960s I can  assure youngsters like Harry that back in the unlimited tackles days, refs were nowhere near as good as they are today. 

Edited July 12 by JohnM

[whatmichaelsays]

19 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

OK, acceptable the sport with the new rules is increasingly harder to be officiated, so what is being done about it, how will it be improved, not with Phil Bentham it won't, and the reason I suspect you bring that up iis that you recognise it is very substandard  officiating and something is very much amiss.  And yes Refs from previous times still had a rule book to comply with but they did have their own personality and expressed it on the field of play not just pedantic whistle blowing like today's group exhibit but taking the incidents on merit and interpreting them as they saw fit.

The match officials can't win here. 

If they apply the letter of the law, they're "pedantic" and "ruining the game". 

If they use personality and discretion, they're "inconsistent", "favouring bigger teams" and "being influenced by [insert captain of your least favourite team here]". 

Just shouting "improve refereeing standards" into the void isn't helpful because it comes from a bad faith position that neither the RFL, nor the referees themselves, are trying to do that. Realistically, the only real tool that the match officials have in their armoury is the increased introduction of technology, but the fans don't like that either. 

If I didn't know better, it would seem that RL fans just like to moan a lot.....

[Wellsy4HullFC]

23 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

Now I realise before writing and publishing this post that I am going to have the wrath of the RPS - Referees Protection Society - criticising what I am about to say.

For me both the Wigan/Wire and Leigh/Cas games were completely spoiled by the pedantic incessant whistle blowing by the two guys officiating the games, I have been involved in this sport most probably longer than many of you have been on this earth and I remember very fondly the times when referees had a personality and would officiate the games by actually knowing what was going on and could interpret between the players on the field of play, most of today's faceless refs neither have the knowledge or experience to do such. Anyone who watched the two games cannot be impressed with the number of whistles, stoppages and interpretation of the rules. 

Moving on to the second game on Saturday, HKR/Cas, seemingly our top official Kendall was given this game as he 'IS OUR BEST', AND I agree in recent times he has much improved from the novice who started out, so why in our Premier game of the weekend did he revert back to his 'I want the camera more on and about me than the players on the field' this was a very prominent trait of his, I honestly thought he was getting much better.

I cannot think of a time when collectively our officials have had more influence on the  outcome of games than they do at the present time, not by anything premeditated but by their complete lack of understanding what the sport is all about that unavoidable collisions happen, bodies become entwined in tackles, players are not robots and just can't jump up and move away in a split second.

And no before I get the 'stock question', approaching my mid seventies I cannot take up refereeing, but I can lend on years and years of experience, and say in my opinion that our present batch of officials is the worst I have ever seen, now I will take criticism from those who can go back in time and lend on their own memory, but those who can't relate to past officials, don't bother,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've criticised referees for not having a personality, and then criticised Kendall for by the sounds of it having a personality?...

If not, you're going to have to clear up what you mean by referees having a personality.

[Harry Stottle]

29 minutes ago, Wellsy4HullFC said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you've criticised referees for not having a personality, and then criticised Kendall for by the sounds of it having a personality?...

If not, you're going to have to clear up what you mean by referees having a personality.

Interpreting the rules and judging incidents on there merits.

[Harry Stottle]

There was once a time when it was said that if you didn't notice the ref during a game then he had a good game.

Not much chance of that happening today.

[JohnM]

2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:

There was once a time when it was said that if you didn't notice the ref during a game then he had a good game.

Not much chance of that happening today.

So,  no change from the Eric Clay and Billy Thomson days. Thomson was though, when retired, a decent after dinner speaker.

Edited July 13 by JohnM

[gingerjon]

41 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:

There was once a time when it was said that if you didn't notice the ref during a game then he had a good game.

You remember the names of refs from fifty years ago. I assume that is because they were noticeable during the game.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

On 13/07/2026 at 10:07, Harry Stottle said:

Interpreting the rules and judging incidents on there merits.

I'm not quite sure how that can be described as "personality" rather than just "competent", because that's what all competent referees do.

On 13/07/2026 at 10:09, Harry Stottle said:

There was once a time when it was said that if you didn't notice the ref during a game then he had a good game.

Not much chance of that happening today.

Not noticed, but also having a personality? 

If you want them to have personalities, they're going to be noticed on the field. 

If you don't want them to be noticed, they won't have personality on the field.

[Wellsy4HullFC]

Whether a referee is noticed or not is not entirely his own making. Certain circumstances force him to be noticed, and nothing he could do to calm things down can prevent it. Sometimes the ref needs to nip out in the bud, and that's when they get noticed. Sometimes the ref needs to make a big call, and that gets really noticed. 

"Personality" comes about in HOW he deals with these calls. 

I guess it's finding that subjective balance between telling someone to get in with it, and telling someone to pack it in! You'll always get someone saying they should have done the opposite. You can't please everyone all the time.

Edited July 14 by Wellsy4HullFC

[Tommygilf]

Much like for the police in wider society, referees in Rugby League will never please everyone.

The same people who call for a "common sense approach with personality" one minute scream blue murder about "bias" and too much "matey-ness" from Referees the next.

They demand consistency and personality (which is code for inconsistency personified), in the same breath.

All this ignores how with FT professionalism, every possible element of advantage a team can get is now a way to help a team win; and refereeing is a part of that. Teams push referees to the limit on minor points where they can gain an advantage like dropping the full 10m. They gain reputations as "aggressive" and "physical" which subconsciously helps them get more leeway in defence, for example. Often Refs seem to be happy when they are "less bad than one expected" so to speak, and thus the advantage is made out. Players play for penalties a lot more too where they can. 

In the past, this culture did exist of course, but in the FT professional environment with analysts etc. much more focus is now placed on ways a team can win.

Likewise, teams have to allow the referee to not be involved by playing a clean and fair game. Far too often, this just doesn't happen, with one ssideor both actively choosing to break rules for competitive advantage.