Tough times for the National Conference South

[Archie Gordon]

2 of the starting 8 teams in the National Conference South have failed to finish the season - Brentwood and North Herts. It's a struggle that I think folks should be aware of.

[henage]

8 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

2 of the starting 8 teams in the National Conference South have failed to finish the season - Brentwood and North Herts. It's a struggle that I think folks should be aware of.

Not great news . Its not great across the open age game . Its hard , hard work keeping teamsd going .

[gingerjon]

13 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

2 of the starting 8 teams in the National Conference South have failed to finish the season - Brentwood and North Herts. It's a struggle that I think folks should be aware of.

Is there anything that can be done to turn things around?

[Sports Prophet]

14 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

2 of the starting 8 teams in the National Conference South have failed to finish the season - Brentwood and North Herts. It's a struggle that I think folks should be aware of.

Were they victims of large losses before they finished?

Ive always thought there is room for 60 or 70 minute matches at grassroots level.

[Sports Prophet]

Further to my last post, I think there is a good argument to say that in development areas, clubs at a particular level should be administered by the governing body.

Not that the RFL have the finances or corporate or political support these days to finance any such programme.

London and the South East is littered with senior and junior clubs which have come and gone over the last 20, 30 and 40 years after a few enthusiastic individuals have burned out.

Strewth, Europe is littered with nations experiencing the same.

[Archie Gordon]

2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:

Is there anything that can be done to turn things around?

Both clubs have plenty of things going for them - Brentwood especially have a full junior set up from u7s to u16s. I hope they both regroup at OA and enter the league below in 2027.

For me, it brings the very real need for a regional strategy into sharp relief. The NE looked strong 5-10 years ago but there's almost nothing there now (happy to be corrected). It all seems to just ebb and flow from year-to-year - I've never seen a regional plan for growth or similar.

[Pen-Y-Bont Crusader]

Geography makes it difficult.

Not having full time (ie RL only players) makes it diffucult.

RU extending the end of seasons and starting pre seasons deliberately makes it more difficult.

The RFL dont provide enough support - that makes it difficult,

[Archie Gordon]

10 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:

Were they victims of large losses before they finished?

Ive always thought there is room for 60 or 70 minute matches at grassroots level.

They were the bottom two in the table but mostly competitive. 

[Archie Gordon]

2 minutes ago, Pen-Y-Bont Crusader said:

Geography makes it difficult.

Not having full time (ie RL only players) makes it diffucult.

RU extending the end of seasons and starting pre seasons deliberately makes it more difficult.

The RFL dont provide enough support - that makes it difficult,

There are a lot of 'RU first' players, that's true, but NCS clubs are also losing players to the Broncos reserves and, for those keeping an eye on the u19s Euro Champs, to the, e.g., Ireland age group teams. As I say above, there doesn't seem to be much joined-up thinking.

[Sports Prophet]

11 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

Both clubs have plenty of things going for them - Brentwood especially have a full junior set up from u7s to u16s. I hope they both regroup at OA and enter the league below in 2027.

For me, it brings the very real need for a regional strategy into sharp relief. The NE looked strong 5-10 years ago but there's almost nothing there now (happy to be corrected). It all seems to just ebb and flow from year-to-year - I've never seen a regional plan for growth or similar.

If I’m not mistaken, the RFL have one development officer for South of a line between Birmingham and Norwich.

The RFL’s strength as a governor of growth is definitely in question.

[JonM]

18 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:

The NE looked strong 5-10 years ago but there's almost nothing there now (happy to be corrected). 

Still a fair bit happening at junior level - cubs, u8s, u10s, u12s, u14s, u16s and I think Gateshead Storm have u18s. Other clubs include Catterick Crusaders, Yarm Wolves, Cramlington Rockets, Chester-le-Street United. There's festivals, various competitions, and some games involving either combined teams or 9-aside where needed. Don't think there's any regular open age stuff happening (I may be wrong), but Catterick have a masters team.

[Archie Gordon]

1 minute ago, JonM said:

Still a fair bit happening at junior level - cubs, u8s, u10s, u12s, u14s, u16s and I think Gateshead Storm have u18s. Other clubs include Catterick Crusaders, Yarm Wolves, Cramlington Rockets, Chester-le-Street United. There's festivals, various competitions, and some games involving either combined teams or 9-aside where needed. Don't think there's any regular open age stuff happening (I may be wrong), but Catterick have a masters team.

Sorry, yeah, I should have said that I particularly meant OA/men.

[Damien]

Thats such a pity. This is partly the trouble with playing in summer too. Once holidays kick in it can be really difficult for numbers.

[OriginalMrC]

It's hard to get players to commit to a longer season particularly when many clubs are dependent on RU players. It's also expensive running a club when you consider travel, food and medical bills. And while the Southern Conference is regional there are still big distances to cover. It's unsurprising to me bearing in mind the low levels of support from the governing body. 

[Eddie]

There are two main issues I think;

1. Travel distances. In the ‘South’ there are some enormous distances involved and it puts amateur players off, plus costs clubs a fortune. For example Anglian Vipers ladies in the same league as Bristol and the Army, and the men’s team mainly have to play London area teams. Meanwhile the semi pro men’s championship is regionalised because some clubs don’t want to travel to the next county too often.  At least two ‘Southern’ ladies teams also had to pull out this season for that reason, Vipers and North Herts.  I know Peterborough men’s team have only had one team travel to them in the league this season also, they face the same issue in the Midlands league. 
 

2. Most players are mainly Union players so it’s sometimes difficult to get a team together at the start and end of the short league season. 
 

Until a time, if there ever is one, that the RFL start showing an interest in RL outside the heartlands it will continue to be a game organised by a few volunteers with little support, facing a constant uphill struggle. 

[Damien]

The trouble is these things are chicken and egg. Its hard to get people to primarily commit to RL for a small number of games that may or may not happen yet you cant arrange a more comprehensive calendar without more teams and players.

Similarly when it comes to things like facilities and grounds. You are usually at the mercy of RU clubs with varying levels of help or hindrance. Compared to how you may be treated actually playing at a RU club the difference can be stark.

Simply playing RU with a bit of RL when you can fit it in is just an easier and frankly better option for many players in development areas, bar the most devout RL player or coach.

The RFL have a massive role to play in filing in that gap through development and support but unfortunately since the Richard Lewis days have been found wanting.

Edited July 16 by Damien

[welshmagpie]

4 hours ago, gingerjon said:

Is there anything that can be done to turn things around?

Not reading the whole thread due to time but Brentwood’s press release put some blame at how stretched the player is becoming down south. Week on week losing players to London Broncos’ reserves, international U19s call ups etc 

[Hemel Rugby League]

This is a worrying development. Increasingly community RL in the South is becoming totally dependent on the whims of RU. As the RU season extends into May and their pre-season starts in July the opportunities for RU players to play RL are diminishing.

Throw in the reality that RU community participation is in free-fall then the prospects for RL are grim if it relies on RU for its players.

The sport needs a structure in the South that allows players to call RL as their first choice sport. If it doesn't  come up with that structure, the sport at Open Age risks disappearing - just as it has in the North East, the West of England and the South West.

[lucky 7]

9 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:

If I’m not mistaken, the RFL have one development officer for South of a line between Birmingham and Norwich.

The RFL’s strength as a governor of growth is definitely in question.

Is the RFL really interested on what goes on South of the Trent with our game?

[Pen-Y-Bont Crusader]

7 hours ago, Hemel Rugby League said:

This is a worrying development. Increasingly community RL in the South is becoming totally dependent on the whims of RU. As the RU season extends into May and their pre-season starts in July the opportunities for RU players to play RL are diminishing.

Throw in the reality that RU community participation is in free-fall then the prospects for RL are grim if it relies on RU for its players.

The sport needs a structure in the South that allows players to call RL as their first choice sport. If it doesn't  come up with that structure, the sport at Open Age risks disappearing - just as it has in the North East, the West of England and the South West.

All the local Ru clubs start pre season this weekend or next. Some clubs (RL) will submit Origin nominations only for players to absent themselves and play local club RU. Whether that’s peer or parent pressure or just not bothered because really they are RU players I don’t know. 

All of our players are RL only - at the moment - as I know RU clubs are left right and centre targeting them. One lad who was with us and gone to Brixton because of age group has got RU clubs fighting over him. We have two weeks off then some friendlies before games again in September through to November to be ready for Champs schools in Dec. Then about a month off before we start prepping for next season. 
 

 

[Archie Gordon]

7 hours ago, Hemel Rugby League said:

...

The sport needs a structure in the South that allows players to call RL as their first choice sport. If it doesn't  come up with that structure, the sport at Open Age risks disappearing - just as it has in the North East, the West of England and the South West.

Yes. All the stakeholders need to sit down and come up with something better than this.

Several interests are pulling in different directions to others. It needs a - dare I say it - whole game solution down here.

[Pen-Y-Bont Crusader]

1 hour ago, Archie Gordon said:

Yes. All the stakeholders need to sit down and come up with something better than this.

Several interests are pulling in different directions to others. It needs a - dare I say it - whole game solution down here.

Absolutely - some really great ideas at some clubs that need to be shared.

The meeting with Martin Coyd next week online will hopefully pull some of those together. I can’t make it so Martin very kindly spoke with me two days ago and was really helpful. 

[gingerjon]

1 hour ago, Archie Gordon said:

Yes. All the stakeholders need to sit down and come up with something better than this.

Several interests are pulling in different directions to others. It needs a - dare I say it - whole game solution down here.

Would something like having each club host a day/weekend of fixtures once and all teams playing there make a difference? Gives each club a festival to focus on for themselves but also a reliably solid calendar and, hopefully, reduced costs/simpler structure. Also makes it all a little bit more fun overall?

[Magic XIII]

1 hour ago, Pen-Y-Bont Crusader said:

Absolutely - some really great ideas at some clubs that need to be shared.

The meeting with Martin Coyd next week online will hopefully pull some of those together. I can’t make it so Martin very kindly spoke with me two days ago and was really helpful. 

Can you share the views of 'Mr My Way or The Highway' ?

[Dunbar]

17 hours ago, Eddie said:

2. Most players are mainly Union players so it’s sometimes difficult to get a team together at the start and end of the short league season. 

Do we have any data on this part?

I regularly watch the three London clubs in the Southern Conference (Chargers, Wests and Hammersmith) and at the first team level at least they look like pretty good quality community level League players.