Bulletproof
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Posts
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Posts posted by Bulletproof
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No, Im disagreeing with you. Do you see the difference? I read what you wrote and rejected it.
But you've added absolutely nothing as to why not having 13 of your players available to you is a bad excuse to use for form issues. You've just lazily repeated your already lazy opinion.
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Everyone gets injuries. It is, and always has been a rubbish excuse for being ######.
Now you're just being ignorant. You have ignored every thing I've said and repeated something I've already addressed and discredited.
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Everyone gets injuries. It is, and always has been a rubbish excuse for being ######.
It isn't. When you plan for a season and all your plans go through the window because of a horrific injury list, when your best acquisitions go on the long term injury list and you are playing green players out of position it at least explains why you are not challenging for the top or comfortable in the play offs as we had hoped. Every club gets injuries, but not in the same capacity. Of course some teams are more affected than others. This much is obvious. I recall Hull FC having a similar situation a few years ago. People didn't seem to question them like they do us.
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they'd probably still do better than Widnes
You might argue that Widnes results show they are nowhere near ready for SL.
At the end of the day the current on-the-pitch assessment in that you only need to win one NRC to get considered is a joke, as it does not encourage going full steam ahead into SL
Best team on the pitch over the 3 years should be the ones promoted, as long as they can prove that they can make the necessary tweaks in their stay in SL. I think you'll find that if this had been the rule, that the club going up would have sorted itself out before going up. For a start a club going up with the momentum as the best team would have much bigger crowds than if it were potentially going up with a great deal of uncertainty
But if this was the case Widnes would have spent more on the squad than we have! We are working within the current system the best we can! And what part of injury list is ambiguous to you? Honestly.
No club in this division is ever ever going to make the step up to super league without significantly altering their squad. Current form has little to do with it.
"I think you'll find if this had been the rule." I think I'm going to stop you there. It isn't. If it had been, things would have been very different for all clubs. You're arguing against us using things that aren't the case but you think should be.
The only point of three year licensing is to take current form out of the equation. Otherwise, you might as well go back to P & R. The three year average thing is a red herring on your part.
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Fev are doing both. Putting a top team out on the field and devloping the future. Why don't Widnes? If they've got such a strong backer, they should be able to do a lot better than 8th. They give the impression that they're sitting back and don't care, assuming the license is in the bag. This discredits the comp. they are in.
How are they developing for the future?
Like I've said, give them our injury list this season and see how they do then. It's not that simple. Fev are no where near ready for SL.
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Why are you soooooooo hostile all the time ?
Show me these posts where im constently attacking your club , running it down while talking mine up, this is a Widnes condition, I merely respond to widnes fans superiority complex issues , This is what really gets to you isnt it !!!! admit it as its plainly obvious to readers of this forum.
You really should judge your self sir, you like to use words like hypocrite, dare I suggest you think of its true meaning when reading or posing your statements on here. good day to you squire.
I've already shown you these posts. It's not my fault you ignore them. Get a grip and grow up Mick.
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Fans of other Clubs don't see that though.
All they see is us struggling this season, and say we shouldn't get a Licence because of it.
Yep. The thing is, under the old system, they'd have a point. But we're not under the old system, and we're merely working as best we can within the current system to ensure we progress. We'd have been better off on the pitch had we not had our injury list but c'est la vie. We're the club building for the future the most when others are spending on squads to build purely for the present.
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Max - I can see what you are saying, but the only reason you can run all these youth teams is because you have a sugar daddy. This was something that has been used in argument against Des (not sure of sirname) at Barrow
We were running an academy before SOC came along though. We've been running one for years. Admittedly we've not always pushed our youngsters on to the scene as successfully as we can now but they have been there.
I've nothing against Widnes, though ever since the last knobhead franchising decision, I feel it was nailed on for them to get the next vote regardless of on-the-pitch accolades from other clubs. IMO it would have been better if there had been a points system for on-the-pitch successes which I've posted in other threads. The other off-the-pitch things could have been secondary requirementsIf you've nothing against Widnes why have successive postings been about how every other team seems to be more suitable for promotion. One day, you said Barrow were nailed on, two days later, you said Halifax were dead certs. It seems to be every team other than the team with the biggest crowds and best set up. We were always going to suffer on the pitch this year blooding youth players, but we've been significantly weakened by a prolongued and difficult injury crisis the likes of which I've never seen at the club. People forget that, for large portions of the season we were without 7 or 8 players, two matches or so there were almost enough to field a seperate team. Emergency loan signings are all very well and good but if the team cannot settle and players cannot get used to one another your form is bound to suffer. Had we had better luck with injuries we would be far more comfortable than we are now. People conveniently leave this out when discussing future licenses. The whole point of the process, which not all of us agree with, but the only point of it is to make sure the club going up is the best placed and the one going down is the weakest. That things like temporary form issues are put on a back burner for things like overall strength.
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"Paying for a team bus & occasional board", ffs man talk about over simplyfying things, Our players do train you know unfortunatly they dont levitate
their cars require petrol.Its much harder to get the better calibre of players to play for Barrow im the main due to the amount of travelling involved which again is not just on match days.
Mick, you don't live in khatmandu. And pointing out the flaws in your club does not bode well for you. These problems will also occur if you were in super league. It isn't a plus point in your favour pointing out the difficulty you have attracting and paying your players fairly. If you're living in a backwater, just live to your means. We'd be best off planning for a future in a centre of population like Newcastle. Despite these obviously crippling issues, you have managed to win the league recently and featured a squad containing the likes of Jamie Rooney. The facts laid out to you regarding our youngsters counting on the cap have been largely ignored and turned into some bizarre reverse whinge.
In my opinion clubs like Fax & Widnes have it much easier in these respects & you both have had your chance in the limelight and blow it already, you both have been Insolvent, Bankrupt or been in Adminastration etc & more than once.Lie. We have been in admin once, due to a crooked owner which could have leeched himself onto anyone. The fact that we had multiple credible bids for our club after he left us in dire straits speaks volumes. We have the largest crowds in the division, and a relatively low salary cap with which to work in, and a new owner with a better sense of morals. This is a completely irrelevant divergence you have taken us on and a false one at that.
One could say that because of mismanagement you have gained from it by having new shiney stadia to crow about and use it as an unfair advantage against well managed clubs who hisorically cut thier cloth accordanly.A staggering bit of idiocy.
Please explain to the board how we benefitted from administration by getting a stadium built 10 years earlier than it happened, before we were involved with Mr Vaughn, before we even qualified for super league? Hell, explain the workings of its finances and how it was dodgy. Please, go into detail. You surely can't leave this on such a compelling, vague point. Explain, liar. Did it enable us to build a time machine? You don't half talk some ######.
By the way, droning on and on about widnes fans "crowing" becomes slightly less impacted when you do it repeatedly yourself and with no provocation.
Why not let Fev or Barrow have three years to see if we manage it better
the buzz it would generate who create hure interest in these communitys and benefit the game by cementing RL in these area's.Absolutely. In fact as we're ignoring due process and all the hard work clubs have taken to ensure they are fully in accordance with RFL policy, why not chuck Moghadishu a license? It would create such a buzz and builr up rugby league n their region, give them a shot. In fact, ###### that. Chuck a dart at a world map and see where it lands. Licensing by guessing. It works so well!
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Huge Ego's and a superiority complex
Other people might get away with saying this, but other people don't consistently attack us and run our club down whilst talking up theirs. In other words, shut up and stop being a massive hypocrite. Responding to your twaddle does not constitute to having a massive ego and/or a superiority complex. Putting teams down whilst being blind to the fault of yours, as you have in the posts just behind mine does.
Honestly Mick, besides being a liar, your also particularly dumb on occasion.
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But having a millionaire chairman willing to cover costs puts Widnes in a good place. I bet if SOC was not there, then Widnes would not have an academy or many of these Kids would be at Widnes. You could say you are very very lucky. But thats life.
However the way Widnes fans go on about things they fail to see the difficulties, Fev, Leigh, Batley, Fax have with no money man throwing money to support them and why its very difficult running a Academy. Also Widnes may be in a good position to sign local players despite SL clubs presence due to SOC and the way Widnes are likely to be in SL from 2012. Other championship clubs do not have that luxury and often are left to sign the best of the rest from the local scene who often have little chance of being good pro players.
We weren't running an academy before SOC then? And we didn't have multiple bids for the club when he took over?
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But do you expect the other clubs to be able to do this ? & fund ground redevelopments.
Lots of clubs have dissavantages like the Cumbrian clubs having to put travelling player's fuel or accomodation costs in the Salary Cap while having to cover the longer distances expenses etc.
Its all a huge mess this franchise malarky and the sooner its over the better.
Paying for a team bus and the occasional board is hardly the same as funding player contracts. Our squad has been weaker this year for the reason listed above. You can still afford Jamie Rooney. Widnes and Leigh are the sole clubs represented in lancs in the league so we have to do our fair share of travelling too.
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I'm not revelling, just stating a couple of facts. Failure to make the top 8 will in my opinion seal their fate,that's an opinion not a fact. Their ground is s*it and their crowds are poor, now they're facts. I would rather see promotion and relegation based on a teams results but as seen as this thread is about who's for the chop i don't see your problem with what i've said.
If these are all facts, we should be able to put them under scrutiny so let's do that.
You describe their ground in less than glowing terms, but in terms of facilities Headingly (the parts which are safe and open to the public, we all remember the south stand closure against Wigan) is similar. It's the same hotchpotch of modern seating and aging cramped terraces. It would seem the only thing differing the two is the sheer size, and wakefields ground has been adequate for years and only recently put under scrutiny. It would be more appropriate to say "small aging ground" than "sh*t", because otherwise, you could describe the hardly glowing Headingley in the same terms. I personally got much the same experience there as I did watching the game at Odsal, Headingley, Wheldon Road, Knowsley Road etc etc etc. A standing, uncovered area open to the elements. It could be improved, but then so many other teams need to improve too that singling them out is unfair. At least they didn't mix us with large amounts of home fans so to prevent us from building an atmosphere of our own like Leeds did.
Their crowds are relatively poor, but yet again, this is a recent issue, they aren't historically poor and there are other teams which get a pass that Wakefield don't. They arent as poor as Salford's, or Quins. Crusaders posted a 1,400 crowd last week. When can anyone say that happened in Wakefield? It again would be more appropriate to say they are poor for a club which doesn't get some special dispensation and why Salford do remains a mystery to me.
One team from super league is coming down, that much is almost certain. Wakefield are frontrunners, but whoever does is an unfortunate victim of the franchising process which has claimed so many, and I won't be describing it as a "nail in the coffin" or signing them off with a sarcastic "bye bye". I will be wishing them luck, because they'll need it.
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Wakefield are nailed on, sh*t ground, no fans, and not making the top 8 this season will be the final nail in their coffin. Bye bye.
Why do some smug fans, like the one above, revel in other clubs misfortunes? What are you getting out of Wakey's failure?
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Weren't Wakefield promoted to Super League originally on the basis that they would be improving their ground? I sure they played 1 match in their 1st season (v St Helens) at Barnsley because of this.
Not really progressed too far with that one, have they?
They're talking about Barnsley again. Well if it worked once...
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They've been trying to exclude Wakey since the start of SL, and this time round I think they'll succeed. I'm suprised that more people haven't voted for Quins - if the rumours that David Hughes wants to reduce his financial input are true then we only tick the junior development and ground standard boxes.
Nonsense. If they wanted to exclude Wakey they could have done it ages ago if they were so desperate.
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Maybe they should up sticks and move to Pontefract.
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Why?
Certainly remains to be seen whether it will make any difference whatsoever to their profile. I couldn't tell you personally which london football club is currently closest to BBC Television Centre. I think the London clubs are on the whole treated with bias but I couldn't tell you which one.
It could be good for the sport but I don't understand what it will do for Salford City Reds in particular which wont apply to Wigan, Wire or St Helens especially since relatively little Rugby League is shown on BBC.
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Dress like a pirate round.
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Does the attendance really matter?
I ask because I would expect poor attendances on Thursday evenings anyway. I can't imagine many away fans being able to travel and still get up for work on Friday (perhaps that's just me getting old, though?). Plus it's on the telly. Even home fans will think twice if there's bad weather.
So, I ask again. Does the attendance matter? I know the club would want to cover costs, obviously, but does it matter beyond that?
It wouldn't matter but then Mick has been throwing about all sort of accusations about my club and its attendances which are by far the best in the league. I'd leave him alone if he didn't bring Widnes into all his Barrow pimping posts but he doesn't, so because of that crowds like these are going to get pointed out to him.
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Crapola attendance that. Im shocked
It's a good job you haven't mocked any other club for declining attendances recently Mick, or you'd look quite the fool right about now.
This was one of the fixtures you were hoping would boost your seriously flagging attendances.
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Dead right there and top marks for observation, it aint Australia and yep, we do do things different here, a great pity we dont do things better!
Maybe the mergers you claim have never worked in this country have failed because they havent been done properly ................... but I have to say there are a vast amount of mergers in industry that have worked!
This lets not bother attitude is one reason the UK is swimming in a cesspit of its own making and we have bred a generation of weak willed jelly fish who ....................... cant be bothered "coz its too hard" all blessed with an ethos of "it probably wont work anyway"!
I'm choosing to ignore your patronising negative attitude and address your post without resorting in kind.
The trouble with this argument is, rugby league isn't strictly a business. People who say it is are missing a whole lot about it. If clubs were strictly a business, no one in their right mind would watch a losing team. If Coca Cola starts to taste awful and gives people illness the customers wont still buy it out of loyalty, they will switch to pepsi. Yet I've seen fans go to watch a Halifax team in super league that didn't have a hope of winning a game all season. You can't treat the fans as customers, they are different. There is an emotional attachment and a sense of community spirit you don't get from true businesses. Sure, they run accounts, and have overheads, but the customers in this case are not the type who will simply wander from product to product when it suits them. Their loyalty is a strength and a weakness. It means you can't simply bank on them going elsewhere if you mess them around and merge and subdue their club. It's more than just a brand to them. But it also means some of them will carry on supporting through thick and thin no matter what is going on with the business side.
Merge Wakey and Cas and a number will refuse to go because it wont be the same and the new entity will represent something else they are not accustomed to or emotionally attached to. You have to accept that no matter what you think of these people. You have to hope that in the long term, you can gain lost ground and overtake that considerably otherwise you are sacrificing two working clubs just to risk one which may work slightly better.
Your last paragraph is of supreme irrelevance to this argument so I wont bother replying to it because you shouldn't have bothered posting it.
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Computer's just crashed & I've lost the links but you can google them yourself
Inverness Caledonian Thistle
Rushden & Diamonds
Dagenham & Redbridge
in case you think this is just a modern phenomenon
Carlisle United
Newcastle united
Welsh regional rugby union
Leeds Carnegie
London Irish
I think it does happen here
I'm confused. Which of those are top flight english rugby league clubs?
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So the Balmain/ Western Suburbs merger didnt work did it? The Wests Tigers are one of the best teams in the NRL, great fan base and won the premiership in '05. I think the Cumbrian team and SOuth Yorkshire team would be a success in SL.
I've got some shocking news for you: This isn't Australia. We do things differently here. The fans are different, the sporting climate is different, and the sooner the people in charge of this sport realise that fact this sport can get over its fascination with beating the aussies at a game they are much more interested in.
Mergers have never ever worked in this country. They've tried and failed. We are dicing with the health of our game in two towns where it currently exists to a decent degree for a short term gain, and there wouldnt be this ridiculous scramble to ensure top flight rugby were there a fair and equitable way of achieving top flight status and a chance for every team to manage it.
Halifax RLFC vs Widnes Vikings
in The General Rugby League Forum
Posted
re. the bolded part, if injuries are irrelevant then why ask this question? The fact is, for large portions of the season, it's been around 7 or 8 missing. It's a relevant thing to bring up when your form is questioned and you have been affected to this degree. Your two main prop forwards are injured very early on into the season, your captain is missing for a lot of the season, your main scrum half leaves the club half way into the season to coach with Hull and you are playing players out of position, it is absolutely inevitable that this will affect form. You've added no argument to this whatsoever. I've explained why we have been "surprisingly ######". You just don't like the fact that it isn't as black and white as you'd like to make out.