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Rugby League World Issue 400 - Out Now!

84 pages, 38 years of history from Open Rugby to the present day.
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Find out what's inside Issue 400
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Read Jamie Jones-Buchanan's Top 5 RLW Interviews including Marwan Koukash, Lee Briers, Gareth Thomas, Steve Ganson & Matt King OBE

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Member Since 08 Mar 2009
Online Last Active Today, 11:34 PM

#2964983 best game you ever saw

Posted by keighley on Yesterday, 09:43 PM

1st cc Leeds v Wigan February 1957 OR RLCC final 1965 Hunslet v Wigan Or the Cup final that Terry Webb mentioned Hull v Wigan

That Wigan v Hunslet was a great game and Hunslet could have won it. A home grown squad with one Welshman against a star studded team of talents.

it was the first time I saw losers go on a lap of honour and boy did they deserve it.

#2963466 Marwan Koukash: I'll turn rugby league into a global sport

Posted by keighley on 22 July 2014 - 11:42 AM

Think I'm in the (significant) minority , but i simply don't buy that he's "great for the sport". Yes, he has money. Yes, he has saved Salford. Yes, he has a "huge" media presence and(allegedly) a grand vision to make the game global. But the constant sniping against the RFL and "toys out of the pram" attitude if he doesn't get his way don't strike me as responisible, or well judged. He strikes me as little more than an egotistical loudmouth, who will move out of the game just as soon as he came crashing into it...just as soon as he gets bored or finds something else to interest him for a moment.

You might be right but just for saving Salford, he's got my vote.

#2963111 Bradford officially relegated

Posted by keighley on 21 July 2014 - 05:25 PM

so when will proper jeopardy kick in then? There is no history of this ever happening from 1973 until the establishment of licensing. You and Lobbygobbler along with others, have been provided with detailed consistent hard information time and time again that shows this is not the case, and you and those of like mind have never done any such thing.


What will happen now is that there will be a procession of inadequate clubs going up having spent money they don't have, and going down with bills they can't pay and it will just get worse and worse just like the old days. 


London and Bradford were and are a mess, but not because of the system.  All the Dragons need is a bad season and we will be on our way to be like knurl and spell, or as someone said Shinty in Scotland : enjoy.


Jeopardy will be whether you can win a promotion spot and then seize it, or not. London and Bradford were unlucky that this relegation is a traditional bottom two down scenario, voted in by their peers no less.


However, from next season there will be the 3 x 8 circus and if Catalans or any other SL team go down despite having everything rigged in their favour, then they will have undoubtedly deserved it but I personally don't think there will be any relegation under 3 x 8.

#2962927 Will the Broncos be swallowed up by the Championship?

Posted by keighley on 21 July 2014 - 01:45 PM

Well you said you never made it in the first place a few minutes ago

You are blaming SL on featherstones relegation
Which is ridiculous


It depends which relegation you are talking about. The removal of Featherstone from Div 1, which became SL, was entirely due to the movers and shakers who orchestrated the makeup of the original SL. that was due to SL.


Fev's relegation to CC1 was due to their own ineptitude in the Championship. However, there is a serious case to be made that if they had not been removed from Div one and had access to Sky funding that they would never have been in the position to be relegated to CC1. Maybe they would have been relegated from SL to the Championship but we will never know that as the dirty deed to give them, Widnes, Keighley and Batley the shaft was perpetrated and history was changed.

#2960220 RLWC2013 Financials...

Posted by keighley on 17 July 2014 - 02:05 AM

Look, some of these things are positive. But put in perspective, the number of RL players in Ireland is negligible. I was involved in a RL game in Belfast in 1990. Allegedly the first ever. Thats what the paper said at the time. Whats happened since then?


A group of 10-20 people forming one club and calling themselves Mexico is positive, but it ain't earth shattering.


My question was about the game in the UK and whether it is going forward as a direct result of the WC.


Is the answer, well it didn't go backwards and was OK? Or, we got 40 new teams in London and a 120 across the country etc etc. That would be really positive. I note your point about the game spreading out of the Heartlands into the midlands essentially. Sadly, Wales was the heartlands in the 1900's. The game sort of was reborn and lived on life support since really? Or am I wrong. Is it thriving?  


I didn't know there was a team in Mexico so that's news to me.


There is no way to know if any of the positive developments in the UK since the WC are the result of the WC being played but the exposure we got from it can't but have helped.


There was a record attendance at the magic weekend for instance. The number of kids in the MW junior league increased. The Sky contract has increased. More money is to be directed towards the Championships. Salford have survived and may prosper. Ditto Wakefield.


Wales has it's own governing body, a national coach, Welsh born players, some at SL clubs, a junior league both north and south. Crusaders juniors keep beating heartlands teams. Their student team is decent. Crusaders won CC1.


Coventry will join the pro/semi pro ranks next season.


Wigan played the WCC in Sydney.


The NZ nines was a fantastic success.


There has been progress.

#2959752 Bizarre RU like try scored by NZ Warriors against the Eels.

Posted by keighley on 16 July 2014 - 02:08 AM

I am sorry to hear that you find scrums and line-outs overly complex, they are really not that complicated to grasp. I am sure you would soon catch on how they work if league decided to adapt to cater for a wider audience. 


From the video clip it seems not everyone in league struggles with the complexity of scrums (apart from the team in yellow, they were really struggling). As I said I applaud them for casting aside the fear of change.


Given the vast amount of penalties awarded at RU scrums, I think even the very top exponents of the game find the scrums too complex to master.

#2959748 RLWC2013 Financials...

Posted by keighley on 16 July 2014 - 01:30 AM

I haven't been on TRL for months. I was trawling for any news on whether the RLWC2013 has produced any tangible results for RL in Britian.


I have only heard of London being relegated and therefore a retreat back to the heartlands.


Nothing more?


Is there any good news about the game coming out of the RLWC2013? Anything?


It's not a retreat, it's a surrender by a pitiful army. What is the relegation of Bradford, they are of the heartlands. There are more teams in more non heartland places than ever in the history of the game and Serbia just played Russia and Jamaica played a British select amateur team.


Ireland RL just got Government recognition, the Scotland WC team produced some very positive articles in the Scottish press. PNG have entered a team in the Queensland RL league with a view to an NRL franchise.


Avignon, Carcassonne and Toulouse are contemplating applications for SL following on from the great turnouts at the French games in the WC. Italy has a youth team and their senior team played a game in Africa. South Africa want to host a RL world cup


The World cup made a profit and has good viewing figures on the BBC. I think sponsors and TV networks will have made note of this.


Whilst all of his is not directly attributable to the WC, the WC was a big part of linking all these various initiatives together in a cohesive whole which is the overall growth of the game both here and worldwide.

#2959746 Back to the old future.

Posted by keighley on 16 July 2014 - 01:14 AM

The failure of London is a failure for RL in the UK.


London is not an "expansion" club. It has been in the Superleague (top flight anyway) for nearly 20 years.


I just can't see, how under the promotion and relegation system, you can accept these outcomes. Acknowledged, you can't accept the rubbish that London put out on the field for a few years, but blind Freddies dog can see the reasons behind those performances.  Why the adminstrators can't is troubling.


The Superleague, keep trying to compare/emulate models used by Soccer/Footballs and Rugby Union. There are inherent failures in both the Premier League structure and the Rugby Football comps in the UK i.e. the one with the most money wins.


The franchise system of the NRL and dare I say it, the AFL, work so much better than any of the English structures.


The Superleague need to develop individual clubs for the betterment of the whole game. Be prepared to take a loss for a few years to make a long term gain. The freemarket, liase fare model, that made England the great country it is today, ahem, is a failure. It don't work when it comes to sport and the development of the game. You have to interfere in the market to allow the littles guys to compete i.e. through genuine salary caps, player drafts etc etc. The Americans do it with their sports.  


The traditional strengths of RL in the UK are its biggest weakness. A strong premier grade, a good second and third tier comp, feeding into the premier grade is the way to go. People can support their local club, go the games and then watch their premier team on tele or at the game when they are local. But promotion of a village team at the expense of a megacity like London is pure lunacy.


Firstly, to be a bit pedantic the phrase you were looking for is laissez faire which is French for let them get on with it unimpeded.


On the later point, I disagree.  Mega teams from mega cities are good and will, in the end, dominate because of that but the shorter term success of smaller underdog organisations is what makes sport special and the david v goliath confrontations with David winning sometimes are the icing on the top of sports which add that added zest.

All of humanity loves an underdog. Costa Rica in the World Cup, Wigan Athletic in the FA Cup, Sheffield in the RL cup or Fev v Hull at Wembley, the US v the Russians at the Lake Placid Olympics in ice hockey or Russia V the US at basketball winning the gold in the Olympics. Even NZ beating the Aussies in the 2008 RWC. Green Bay winning the NFL, anybody beating the Yankees, Man United or the Miami Heat or the Brazilians.


It's not lunacy, it's the beauty of sport and the all important public exposure of such events on TV is ratings generating and that's what drives the bus these days. That's why we watch even though the outcome often seems predetermined. It's the underdog syndrome. Every Dog has it's day is more than just a trite saying. It's why we play the games.


To the big teams, it's a case of " If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen". it doesn't happen very often  but when it does, it's bliss not lunacy.

#2957346 Dr K rips into Mcmanus

Posted by keighley on 11 July 2014 - 02:42 AM

If Koukash knows so much, how come his mega-expensive team is nearer relegation than it is to the playoffs and plays to crowds about the size of that at Featherstone?


Their crowds are up quite a lot this season and Huddersfield just found out that  they might be gelling as a team.

#2956852 Coventry Bears to Kingstone Press Championship 1 in 2015

Posted by keighley on 09 July 2014 - 02:09 PM

wouldn't splitting champ1 into regions defeat the point of expansion??



the geographical spread of championship 1,probably the most diverse outside of the football league,actually gives us credibility...



i wanna see gateshead v south wales...or barrow v london skolars



and if travel costs are a issue then the RFL should help out 


You would still see such fixtures in the cross conference fixtures but you would get more derbys and geographically close fixtures from the in conference fixtures. The best of both worlds.

#2955297 Russian Rugby League (Merged threads)

Posted by keighley on 06 July 2014 - 12:45 AM

Death of democracy? When was Russia ever a democracy? Name one time that the ruler of Russia ever lost office.


There is no "rolling back of democracy" because there never was much more than a facade of democracy in the first place.


I think there was but a leader was democratically elected who didn't believe in democracy as a concept and set about dismantling the framework of it in Russia, changing the consitiution to allow himself extra terms in office, suppressing the press. Alternating prime minister and president with his cronies etc etc  .This has caused democracy to be in  deep dodo and quite possible, as you say, currently a façade, having been subverted by a dictator who achieved office masquerading as a democrat.


The same thing happened in the Weimar republic and the same thing just happened in Egypt. democracy is a fragile plant.


However, maybe RL didn't fall foul of the wishes of the autocracy in sway in Russia and maybe the whole thing has been wrongly interpreted as has been suggested. We shall see how it develops.

#2952621 29/06/14 - The Kingstone Press Championship Match Thread

Posted by keighley on 30 June 2014 - 08:57 PM

It was always going to be a tough year with 5 going down. Hopefully heads won't drop too much with safety now looking out of reach.


Silver lining is that CC1 should be much improved next year with a nice mix of expansion & heartlands' clubs plus a couple of derbies with Oldham/Swinton potentially to look forward to. Last year might not have been the best year to be promoted but this year is probably not the worst year to get relegated either.


I agree with that except that Oldham might FINALLY get promoted the way CC1 is unfolding.

#2952379 The RFL needs to do the same

Posted by keighley on 30 June 2014 - 01:38 PM

The player pool is to be 25 senior players x 12 SL clubs = 300 players. That remains the same so players in and out doesn't change the number. 


The way we upped the quality originally was to take overseas stars, and now that has reduced so more Brits get to play. But there is no great surge in Junior rugby and so as far as I can conclude the quality in SL has gone down.


Leeds for instance have been busting a gut to develop a decent Hooker - they have imported them since Diskin left. Young Hood looked good but wasn't up to it. Robbie ward was OK. Massive sigh of relief when Aiton came back. Leeds JARL have produced a quality hooker in Mike McIlorum but Wigan got him.


Although the top clubs produce the most players it doesn't mean they are producing large numbers of quality players - only numbers. Wigan developed Tomkins as a hooker and Salford who can't develop anyone much had him playing Saturday.


Our superleague is basically a few super clubs and a few more who rely on the top clubs cast offs for a team. 


Last year I counted about 20 Leeds born lads in Superleague who had come through the academy. So if careers are longer now then Leeds produce one or two top players a year, Wigan maybe two. How many top players do salford produce who come from the salford/manchester conurbation? One every so many years?? 


That's how bad it is, to cover positions Leeds cannot develop a top class player in, they still buy overseas or pinch them off lower clubs.  Even Wigan are shored up by the best remnants of Crusaders and London......


So the junior leagues in Cumbria, Wales, Halifax, Dews/Batley,Oldham become more important as an extra source of players and, in the future, it is important to keep the expansion clubs alive and kicking also and developing the schools and amateur game in their areas. The north is not the sole haven for talented youth who can play out game. 


It is more important to support the amateur game and increase the supply of players than it it to ignore them and just reduce the number of SL clubs to fit the diminished supply coming from the amateur and youth leagues. The RFL should help the junior game. Without players the game is not sustainable.

#2952344 Bradford Bulls take appeal to the High Court

Posted by keighley on 30 June 2014 - 12:41 PM

If crowds don't matter, which is a more extreme position than I am taking, then why does it matter what those people think? They have no say.


What's "double standards" got to do with putting on Leeds.v.Bradford rather than putting on Leigh.v.Featherstone. Again you dismiss crowds but then take into account their opinions,


Which of those two fixtures gets the bigger TV audience? Which gets the armchair fans turning on their telly's? Which provides SKY's advertisers with the biggest audience. What do TV watchers make of games played out in empty stadiums?That matters.


I think you got that wrong big time. SKY pay tens of £Millions for a pro game and paid nothing for the Championship. It seems clear to me any old RL will certainly not do.


As for player production the idea we can put anyone on the pitch is another extreme position. Don't we have stars playing the game that people want to watch even if it's on TV? Didn't TV audiences drop when second division RL was shown? Don't we want more quality players to compete at International level?


To argue grounds can be empty and the quality of player can be second rate and the SKY contract and the game will be fine is incredible, and be careful someone doesn't point out that what you say "doesn't matter" i.e. crowds and quality player production are somehow just the two things your club lack in spades.


It is interesting to note that SKy apparently support the new format and are OK with extra TV money going to top championship clubs ? There is a disconnect between what you assert Sky want and the way they are behind a new format which has a large input from the Championships.

#2951571 Catalan Dragons Update

Posted by keighley on 29 June 2014 - 01:36 PM

Fantastic, I truly believe that once the Catalans start producing their own players this will propel them into the top 3/4 in super league, everything else seems to be in place like the ground, growing fan base, media coverage and finances.


It didn't hurt that the RU team got relegated either.