I logged on to the board and saw threads about WCC v the Aussie clubs, Cardiff RLFC, Newcastle Thunder and Catalans all grouped together on the board and it struck me that, despite all setbacks, the reach and footprint of the game is inexorably spreading slowly to the point whereby the heartlands are not the sole focus of our attention and I thought this was good to see.
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keighleyMember Since 08 Mar 2009
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Posted by keighley on 27 January 2015 - 03:40 AM
and if it weren't for very rich men throwing money at it they would still be dead. South's aren't the little club that could they are the rich club who did. Nobody at all is advocating keeping rich people out of the game. If Paul Allen wants to throw millions at keighley bring it on.
They were dead. They were evicted from the league because of supposed lack of potential. You should brush up on the issue. Tens of thousands marched in the streets demonstrating against this madcap decision.
- RabbitRhinoovOZ likes this
Posted by keighley on 26 January 2015 - 02:30 AM
I meant to post this on the Leigh season tickets sales thread but it was locked before I could do so.
Scotchy was in his Leeds are aristocrats mode and was making much of the fact that Leeds had never been in the second division EVER.
Well I wish to inform him that in season 1902-03 Leeds were promoted from the 2nd Division behind, WAIT FOR IT, the Champions KEIGHLEY.
So that dispels that little myth.
Posted by keighley on 25 January 2015 - 01:53 PM
Leigh aren't some upstart new kids on the block, they are a club which is over 100 years old. So they are treated as a 100+ year old club, and they are judged as a 100+year old club. They aren't a new club, they aren't an expansion club spreading the game to a new area, they aren't building those links and foundations, they have already doe it over the past 100+years.
And lets be honest, in the context of a club which has existed for 100+ years, in the context of a club in the heartlands of our game and all the advantages that confers, they aren't doing well. They aren't even aiming to do well. Even the most biased Leigh fan is not predicting or even really hoping that they do 'well'. In the context of clubs who have existed for 100+ years in the heartlands of our game 2-3k averages are not doing well, 5-6k averages are not doing well, 7-8k averages are not doing well. If Leigh aren't some upstart new kid on the block then they are judged to the standard the other clubs have set, and that is Leeds, or Wigan or Saints, or Wire.
Nobody on these boards, rarely even the fans of those clubs, defend Wakefield or Castleford for the very valid criticism of those clubs, yet for some reason we are supposed to celebrate Leigh aiming for (not even achieving yet) those levels.
I don't want to wallow in the self-satisfaction of I told you so, I want the game to grow, I want the best players to not only stay in SL but to come to SL, I want to watch RL in good surroundings and big crowds
If teams averaging 7 to 8,000 are not doing well then that excludes most of SL. Don't get too smug. I remember Leeds on 6,000 and Wigan on 5,000 and Wire as well. Delusions of superiority breed contempt but pride comes before a fall. Ask Bradford.
The signs are that Leeds decade of superiority with the golden generation are slowly coming to an end and we will see what happens then. Ask Hull.
As for watching RL in good surroundings, I think LSV is a very good ground, definitely superior to Headingley on any measure except capacity.
- deluded pom? likes this
Posted by keighley on 24 January 2015 - 04:12 PM
It was a fantastic World Cup for the four teams, the rest was puffery, filler.
I have clearly stated, a limit on heritage players as heritage teams means zero coverage, zero expansion.
If you are trying to justify having teams with 13 foreigners representing nations, why not add another 12 teams with 13 foreigners and make the tournament even bigger? Australia has quite a big ethnic Greek and Croat populous, theres two teams for starters. More filler the merrier seems to be the attitude.
I and nobody in Ireland couldnt care less about 13 foreigners putting on an Ireland jersey for convenience. I will support Ireland in pretty much anything, Ireland did not play in the RLWC.
I guess you don't support the Irish soccer team then.
- burnleywelsh likes this
Posted by keighley on 24 January 2015 - 02:06 PM
The central funding - TV and sponsorship revenue - is entirely generated by SL. Why should those clubs give more money to Championship clubs who don't do anything to generate it.
Because it's important to expand the footprint of the game and also to have as many strong clubs as possible. Your argument is exactly the one the uber rich spout when they decry giving any of their money via taxes to the great unwashed.
Looking at the standard of living today for the average Briton compared to 1895, I would say giving money to the championship clubs should payoff over time.
- deluded pom? likes this
Posted by keighley on 24 January 2015 - 01:49 PM
I have said this before but I am probably one of the older posters on here and when I was a boy, the only RL clubs in Europe were in Northern England and France. Internationally there were only four teams worldwide and we held several world cups with only the four.
The growth of the game is nothing short of amazing to me and every month it seems like there is a new country or foreign club taking up the game. Even though the expansion of the game in the UK has slowed or even contracted a bit recently still has a huge footprint compared to what was in situ when I were a lad.
Long may such expansion continue.
- Yorkie44 likes this
Posted by keighley on 23 January 2015 - 01:58 AM
So, after I thrice attempt to get this back on topic, you still want to play heritage player bingo.
336 players at the rlwc. 9 of the 14 squads of 24 contained a total of 41 players born in the country they represented. That's 41 from 216 or 19%.
So to clarify, 64% of the teams contained an average of 4.5 players in their 24........that's not a few, that's most of the teams using mostly heritage players. Tales of Italian immigration are truly heartwarming but utterly pointless in terms of expansion and development
Remember now.....you wanted to.play
Expansion and development are not totally dependent on international representative teams. There are two competing leagues,
for instance, in Italy. South Africa were not even at the WC and their league is expanding. Canada is another burgeoning success
story. The USA has expanded their domestic league despite the heritage lockout for the WC.
Don't forget this is early days. How recently was it that the Italian RU team featured New Zealanders, a south sea island scrum
half, an Argentinian stand off and various others. RU union has ben played in Italy for many, many decades. RL in Italy in the 1950's was killed off by Govt. and the Italian RU in concert.
Simililarly RU has a long history in the USA compared to RL. Our game everywhere other tan the traditional powerhouses is coming
from a long way back due to the intransigence of the IRB. In time the national teams of the lesser fry will have more home born
nationals in their teams. In the meantime the heritage teams provided a welcome increase in numbers for our world cup and were a
In the meantime you keep flying the flag for the super duper England RU team who can't compete at the top level without their own
heritage players and denizens of the northern slag heaps helping them out.
- wackojacko likes this
Posted by keighley on 22 January 2015 - 10:42 PM
The crowds were awful, but worse still the coverage non existent. Honestly you wouldnt have hAd any idea a RLWC was taking place, with the cricket you did...and both sports are on a par on terms of profile. The difference was there were Irish cricketers performing and that garnered some attention.
The attendance in Ireland for the world cup might seem to be small but I believe it was the highest attendance RL had ever managed to attract to a game in the Emerald Isle.
- John Fisher likes this
Posted by keighley on 22 January 2015 - 03:20 AM
Did I say YOU had attempted to identify me? As for being anyones tribute act, how does me declaring the RLWC 2013 a success match me to either gutters either directly or as a fan? I am not the first to identify the ridiculous nature of our international teams, which are predominantly Australians masquerading as Italians or Americans, so do you describe anyone else who does this as gutterfax?
The crux of this....or at least the crux that it has become is that because someone pointed at a Union international side and said they do it to, the minute it's pointed out that they may well do, but not to even 10% of the amount that we do it, soccer is pulled from a hat like some white rabbit of truth to show how tiny union is, when in reality, nobody was discussing the size or reach of Union, league or soccer........until they brought the subject up.
This then ends with various posters jumping up and down and shouting "I've found a troll" when in reality, they've had their ***** handed to them on a plate, but declaring they've caught a troll might disguise their stupidity.
Again. I believe there's more chance that the RFU paid for this advert and the tourist people contributed nowt but their logo.........but some seem to prefer hunting for imaginary bogey men.
RL uses heritage players for some minor nations. England RU, one of the premier RU teams use it a lot. The RU lot are not immune
from criticism in this department but you just dwell on RL. We are still in a developmental stage internationally. I will bet that if the USA qualify for the next RL world cup there will be a lot more born and bred in the USA players in that team. I would bet he number of Italian born players also slowly increases. I would bet that if Canada or South Africa qualify there will be a big
majority of their players native born. Rome (see what I did) wasn't built in a day.
The heritage concept is as a starter mechanism for international teams is not a farce. These players are indeed heritage players
with an ancestral connection to their team. The Italian team was not a bunch of aboriginal or Polynesian Australians who had been
given a free spaghetti dinner. They were Italian Australians who had Italian born parents or grandparents and had been brought up
in the Italian mores of food, tradition, religion etcetera. If you looked at a list of their surnames you would have guessed
Italian not Australian. From articles and interviews I read with some of them they were proud as punch to represent Italy.
- burnleywelsh likes this
Posted by keighley on 21 January 2015 - 02:28 PM
Rent is a month-to-month arrangement. You can leave at any time so long as you give the landlord a month's (or pre-agreed notice) notice. The landlord can raise the rent at any time so long as he or she gives the proper legal notice.
A lease is a contract for a fixed term. You agree to pay X £s a month for X months/years. The landlord cannot raise the rent until the lease is up.
If you break the lease, either by not fulfilling terms or by deciding to leave, you are liable for the amount you owe from now to the end of the contract (lease period). You can get around this by subletting to someone else to cover your costs. Unless you can make some sort of deal with the landlord, you are responsible for finding another tenant to fulfill the terms of the lease or to continue paying for it yourself even if you don't use the property.
Thanks for that. Basically then it's to give better terms and security of tenure to both owners and customers that a lease would be
the best way to go.
- Railway End likes this
Posted by keighley on 21 January 2015 - 01:56 PM
(1) That hasn't yet happened in the modern era and its a moot point as to whether it could. You'd have to estimate the combined support for the 2 sides at about 18K if you look at recent figures (correct me if I'm wrong).
(2) Even if you did achieve those figures those clubs would be absolutely maxing their support bases yet still reliant on commercial and benefactor investment to genuinely compete with the likes of Leeds, Wigan, Saints and Bradford with their 15K+ fanbases.
A combined team with 15K core support would be "go forward" in every regard. Who's to say they couldn't bust through 20K in time? They would be hugely attractive to investors and commercial sponsorship from all over the UK. Furthermore, they would play in bigger games and be bigger draws than FC and KR could individually ever hope to achieve. They would help the sport as a whole grow. All FC and KR can do is keep it on a level at best.
Small teams at elite level are a hindrance to growth. Where they exist in close proximity an opportunity for the sport to push on is wasted by persevering with them.
1. You would not get the whole support of each team supporting a new merged team. Many,many fans are wedded to their current team and would walk away before supporting this new entity. My estimate is that 15,000 is about the best you can do.
2. Neither Saints nor Bradford currently have a 15,000 fanbase, neither do Wigan. Leeds is the only genuinely mega club currently
in the British game.Even Catalans are struggling to hit 10,000. Most of the game can get by perfectly adequately on 10,000. See
Warrington and Saints ( the current champions) for examples. Who is to say that a combined team wouldn't be a complete turnoff and decline precipitously especially if they didn't hack it on the field. Mergers didn't do much for Illawara and North Sydney but
persevering with the supposedly moribund South Sydney has paid huge dividends.
Small teams have their place. Widnes are decent, stable and made the playoffs. Ditto Castleford but add the Cup Final. Huddersfield are a solid member of the SL. Hull KR are growing their support, improving their ground but Hull are stagnating both on the field and on the terraces and have problems with the Hull City mob as regards their ground. Salford have a new ground, a new owner and an optimistic future.
If you ditch them all, as it stands now, the league will contract and be too small and repetitive to be a draw to either the fans
or the broadcasters in my opinion.
- RabbitRhinoovOZ likes this
Posted by keighley on 21 January 2015 - 12:37 PM
I think when a championship club is drawn against a SL club, the championship club should always have the home game.The SL club supporters are not interested in games against lower opposition at their ground and vote with their feet but having Wigan in Cumbria or Leeds in Oxford or Hull at Keighley or Warrington at Rochdale is likely to be a good crowd pleaser for the locals to see the games top stars in their locality. For the expansion teams it could be a useful promotional tool as well.