Ian (Pencil) Elliott
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Posts posted by Ian (Pencil) Elliott
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You and Padge need to get a grip, serious allegations my god man grow up.Just because Fev do it does not mean that other clubs will. You are making some pretty serious allegations that you cannot back up. Lying doesn't matter? What a life value you have!
Attendance figures have always been inflated and reduced to suit, no I can't back this up but if you think that it has never gone on then you are another living in cloud cuckoo land.
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Many clubs lied to get a licence last time, in order for us to get a licence then maybe we need to play the same game.If this is in fact true, how will Featherstone be any different when they get awarded a SuperLeague licence. Maybe with a good accountant?
Doesn't really matter anyway anymore because the licence system will be out of the way soon.
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Get a grip padge, the only thing clubs are guilty of his exaggerating crowd figures in order to lie and get a licence. If you attend a venue on a few occasions you can easily have an idea about the size of the crowd. I don't think the tax man gives a stuff about crowd figures and only cares about what money the club is actually taking.If your brother only sometimes watches Wakefield how is he such a superb guesser of what the attendance is there.
What you are claiming is that all the management of all the clubs are involved in a conspiracy to avoid tax, They are also involved in a blatant disregard of the Safety at Sports Grounds Act and probably all sorts of Fire Regulations and Health and Safety Regulations. I suggest you hand over the names of all those involved in this criminal activity immediately to the police along with all your evidence. These people should be in jail.
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Padge the big thing with stats for attendances is that they can easily be manipulated. For example my brother sometimes watches Wakefield and he can't see where they get the crowd figures from. He thinks there is probably only a slight improvement yet the gates announced have another 3k on top.I have no problem with subjectivity, provided it is logically thought out and the conclusion that some one comes to is offered as opinion and not, as often happens on here, as fact.
You also have the other problem of people quoting top of the head stats as facts and then when they are shown to be completely wrong with factual based evidence refuse to accept it and declare that the figures have been falsified in the past and so are not valid.
Even the crowds announced at our games sometimes amaze me. Hard to judge because of the ground developments but sometimes it does not feel like a 2k± crowd is there.
One more example is the massive attendance a few years back by Halifax when they played Batley, I think it was up 70℅. So my opinion is that in the world of licencing clubs are better announcing good crowds. In the 80's it did not matter what was announced.
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The RFL are hardly going to turn around and say when we introduced licencing we dropped one mighty clanger are they.You can continue to make things up if you like, or you can read what's been said by BlaKe Solly. Both the RFL and clubs admit licencing is better than the previous system. You can ignore that all you like but it's a fact, straight from the horses mouth.
Now, what was that about living in cloud cuckoo land?
Licencing didn't work, if it did then it would still be here. Back to the cuckoo's nest you go.
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And it continues, licencing was working but..................
Licensing was not working because if it was they would not have changed it , end of and for anyone to suggest that it was changed to keep championship clubs happy really lives in cloud cuckoo land.
Licensing was a mess and it has failed, get over it. Denying it won't make things better.
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Come of it John, so you are blaming the licence mess on boredom rather the actually product being boring. Scraping the barrel now aren't weBeing realistic, you can't do anything for 50 years without it becoming boring at one point. It doesn't mean that whatever it is you are bored with is at fault, these things just happen sometimes.
Perhaps you should give the game a rest? (Not being funny)
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Mentioned before by people like you who spin propaganda in order to blame traditional clubs. Licensing as been a disaster, so I will spin it around debating with you is pointless.As has been mentioned before licensing/franchising isn't the problem
Sorry but if Featherstone weren't being bankrolled by a benefactor they wouldn't be anywhere near getting into the Super League. Not a hope in hell..
As for my club, you really don't have a clue. Money from directors have without a doubt helped but the fact that we don't play in a rented stadium and all bar and food takings go back to the club really do give us a financial advantage. Without some financial support I am not naive enough to think that we could compete at the very top of SL but we would do better than some of the clubs in there at the moment.
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Cheers Parky. As you know from my history of posts I am very bitter towards what happened in 1995, however with recent changes which looks like a return to P and R it's time I got over the past and started to support the game I love. If all goes well with the restructure, I will definitely attend at least 1 world cup game.Excellent post Ian.
The last round of licensing instead of picking the best 14 professional RL clubs picked only four clubs that came up to an A rating.
So they had to scratch around for second rate pro clubs...... "B" clubs. Bradford as a B went bust.
Still five clubs short they then admitted five third rate "C" rated clubs including Wakey who had gone bust, salford who were heading that way and London who were sinking. The result was heavy financial losses and club chairmen pulling the plug.
The bubble is indeed burst, so it is back to P & R and we may as well enjoy it as best we can,
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Then don't debate but it does not mean you are right and Lobby is wrong.There is no point in debating with some people on here, especially Lobbygobbler. When presented with the crowd figures from the 1980s he dismisses them as inaccurate. A ridiculous attitude. When presented with the facts he ignores them.
In terms if Wakefield, Featherstone and Castleford if they want to indulge in an inter village championship they should do in the semi professional championship and not the Super League. If they fancy watching a team that could have a chance of winning the Super League they should enter a merged team that played out of a new stadium.
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I don't know many Fev fans who feel this way. What I do know is that they would like the opportunity to play Cas and Wakey via promotion or by one of the mentioned clubs dropping down via relegation.And yet, we've had Fev fans on here admitting that they're only interested in seeing their club in the top flight, getting an opportunity to play Wakefield and Cas on a regular basis, even if that means the game as a whole has regressed to a semi-pro competition and playing standards fallen.
If you ask the majority of Fev fans if they would rather have a licence for 2015 or a return to P and R, I would say the majority would vote for P and R.
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You are right the change back to P and R means we miss out on a franchise in 2015 and the risk is with some good clubs coming down we risk gaining promotion on the field for some years to come.From what I've seen most reasonable posters havent said anything like that. They have been saying that Fev had done enough to gain themselves a licence. It would of been well earned and would of given them three years security to try to establish themselves in SL. Now as someone else has pointed out the best the can hope for is to win promotion in 2016 or 17. I fear by then all their momentum will have stopped
However the reason that us so called selfish inbred flatcappers want a return to P and R is because we want to achieve our goals by on the field. We would rather do it that way than have a packed clubhouse waiting for an administration to give an announcement (the way Widnes did). We would rather do it on the field rather than take the place of a clubs like Cas via a licence because we know first hand how hard it is to carry on fighting in a League where winning the comp means you stay where you are.
It has become perfectly clear that a set of supporters who have been accused time and time again of only caring about there own club actually care about the game in general. The same can't be said for many of the accuses who are now crapping themselves that there cosy bubble is about to burst.
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I'm simply too weary to argue with you. All I can say is Get a reality check. I'm no bloody victim! I'm weary of the attacks you make. I'm weary of the state of the game, a game which is so good it can't even get a main sponsor for it's flagship competition. A game that's so good it can't promote itself. I'm sick to death of the endless facts and figures being produced on here to prove many of the Championship clubs will never, ever make it in the "elite."I'm weary of people coming on here and banging on about how we shouldn't moan and how we should talk up the game. It gets hard when you're told there's no future for the club you support. I talk up the achievements of my club. I'm proud of my club! I don't need you to keep on telling me that I'm just a fervent traditionalist supporting a team from a pit village with no future. I'm no parochial supporter. I'd love to see the game played at the highest level all over the country. The reality is that we are no NRL. We are no NFL.
With you all the way mate
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Again this not about Australia.St George IIawarra and West Tigers both have average attendances of 19,000. That is double what the separate clubs in 1998 averaged. If the people of Wakefield and Castleford don't want to get behind a merged side then neither of them should be in Super League. That would concentrate their minds. If feeling are so strong then they might decide it would better to be stand alone outfits outside the competition. So be it. That is what North Sydney did in the end.
Merged club or no Super League. It is a shame the Super League and the RFL didn't stand firm in the mid 1990s.
While you are bringing crowds into it would London Broncos have to be told to play lower down due to their embarrassing attendances?
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You are right. With clubs that shouldn't be Super League like Wakefield, Castleford, Hull KR and even Widnes the bigger Championship clubs rightly think they should have a piece of the Super League action too. To put it bluntly unless the non-viable Super League clubs merge they should all be excluded from the competition. This is precisely what happened in the NSWRL as it evolved into the NRL. The traditional clubs had to make sacrifices to grow the game.
Once they allowed the small town clubs to stay in Super League back in the mid 1990s the whole vision of an elite top competition was compromised. It was a massive mistake and we are still living with the consequences.
Despite the warm weather we are not in Australia. Like usual blame it all on traditional clubs, well I'll tell you something without the mentioned clubs we would well and trully be in the brown stuff. People like you amaze me how you have this vision of people turning up in there thousands to watch a new merged club. London would get more fans than a merged Fev, Cas & Wakey team.
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Licensing was working better than what was there before. The problem was they expanded Super League to 14 clubs too early and waved Salford and Crusaders into the competition largely on geographical grounds. Without genuine competition for licences the system was going to work as intended. When club's like Bradford and Wakefield broke the rules there was no one to replace them with.
It should be reiterated that British rugby league can only afford to finance one fully professional competition. There is absolutely no prospect of the Championship or Championship 1 becoming viable and sustaining as a professional spectator sport.
I sense a destructive glee in your posting. That is sad. Without the limited financial and playing resources being concentrated in one elite competition the British game will even further behind Australia. Promotion and relegation is not some sort of silver bullet will magically reinvigorate the sport again. Far from it. The costs of promotion and relegation far outweigh its benefits.
You start of by mentioning Wakefield and Bradford. If lets say Halifax got a licence by putting together a complete lie on there application and replaced Wakefield. By doing this you put 3k on the gates at Fax and Wakefield lose 3k, then it appears Halifax can't afford what they put in the application and go into administration. Would Wakefield be considered strong enough to replace Halifax in the next round of licences? That's my problem there are clubs in the Championship just as big as some of the clubs in SL. The only problem is that they have been starved of top flight RL because of no P&R so they can't get the crowds but SL clubs who commit financial ruin get a very small points deduction that means naff all when the League is a licence.
Lets then look at the National game. Strange in 95 I did not think we were too far away from Australia and certainly a lot closer than we are now.
As for my glee sorry if you thinks it's sad but I have waited a long time for the I'm alright Jack folks to show there true colours as soon as changes effect there cosy little world of licencing.
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You lost me at "a good coach that was aided with the lack of P&R when he was learning his trade at Huddersfield"
You're wrong. Huddersfield were relegated in his first year as coach (although he almost scraped it, IIRC)
He knows the disruption that happens when a team gets relegated, how the best players leave instantly for no transfer fee, how the clubs systems have to be wound down overnight, how real people in real jobs have to be made redundant, how the fear of losing vast amounts of income at short notice means you can't spend on infrastructure, on youth development, on any of the back office stuff that a club actually runs on.
He's been there, taken a massive paycut (so the rumours say) to stay on and then come back out of it.
I'd listen to him if I were you. He knows more about this game, and more about the business of this game, than every poster on this site rolled up together.
Who survived because Dewsbury and Hunslet did not get a place in SL? I always thought it was Huddersfield. Sorry Tony Smith is a decent coach but I think he should take his ideas for the British game back down under when he decides it's time to return home.
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Well hasn't this forum turned into a doom and gloom fest! It would appear after all that the cosy franchise system which the majority on here support due to having a club safely tucked inside it is to be no more. Reading some of the comments on here though the franchise system was working and apparently the RFL are changing just to please a few disgruntled supporters like me, that's a kind of paranoia I have been accused of in the past. Even when SL clubs themselves vote to end the ridiculous system some forum members still deny that it has been a complete failure.
It is amazing how the RFL so loyaly backed by many members on here are all of a sudden lunatics running an asylum. How many times have I been called a doom merchant and accused of only caring about my own club. Well just take a look at this forum it really is very sad how many hypercritical comments have been posted.
I have really enjoyed Mr Sadler scurrying around peddling his propaganda garbage in his paper which only makes me even more happier that I decided to boycott his rag a long time ago. We also had had the Widnes chairman Mr O'Connor putting his weight behind franchising, no surprise really he milked the system for all it was putting a team out in the Championship that was not worthy of such a great club, just because he got the nod from the RFL that SL was his. My favourite is probably Tony Smith's comments a few week back, here we have a good coach that was aided with the lack of P&R when he was learning his trade at Huddersfield. His reasons though are priceless, apparently it will stop young British players players getting there chance in the first team because clubs will be under pressure to survive P&R, remind me how old there Warrington's Aussie full back is?
I am personally really pleased with the recent developments and I feel like the RFL are finally going down the road of thinking about all member clubs again. I really hope that the split into 3 leagues is voted through. Either way I almost feel part of the game again and I am even starting to take an interest in the world cup.
Cheer up everyone, what goes around comes around
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Were Fev the best team this year? Without a doubt you were, and most consistant, are you champions? Nope not at all. Thas Fax's honour.
Well enjoy the honour of not being the best team in the league but being Champions! but I can't see where there is an honour in not being the best team but being the Champions.
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If you had won the NRC group you were in, would you be claiming you were NRC winners?
How many NRC group champions have we had this year?
Yes, very clever you mean when teams play a few games including national league 1 teams at the very start of the season.
Didn't you realise the first time you brought it up and no one responded that your comments were irrelevent to this topic.
When is your next stand up show cos your one liners are Hilarious?
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Well done Gary. Your passion for the club is just fantastic.
This award is well and truly deserved!
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How about entering the boozer occupied by the Rovers fans at Warrington. I am sure you will get a great taste of the pre-match atmosphere.
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I don't have a problem showing our local neighbours what we think off them.
I also don't care what we sing on Sunday but lets do our part and give it our all, especially if the match enters a sticky patch for us. For me that is when the team needs to hear us the most.
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I don't usually post on this forum because I don't agree with a lot that is posted but because this is Grand Final week I am making an exception.
I don't for one minute expect Fev to ever have a chance of winning Super League but as a supporter all I ask is a fair opportunity to compete against the best.
I did not grow up loving the game because I thought we were going to win the League. I enjoyed it because when we took on the likes of Wigan, Leeds and St Helens at Post Office Road we always had a chance of winning. The atmosphere was so special and we had some great days.
I might get accused of living in the past but we are a club just as big as some clubs already in the Super League.
I would of course be delighted if Fev ever got a franchise but I would be more happy if the RFL would remove the unfair Franchise rule altogether and allowed promotion and relegation again.
The never-ending League Restructure debate (Many merged threads)
in The General Rugby League Forum
Posted