iffleyox
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Posts posted by iffleyox
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1 hour ago, Harry Stottle said:
only today I saw a report from Jon Wilkin stating that it is a flaw in IMG's methods that some clubs are forgoing improving their teams in preference to gaining points for the spreadsheet, now in a sporting context and environment can that be right?
Can't we file that under 'dog bites man' though? Or alternatively 'system does what it's designed to do'?
How many of these spreadsheet points have to be done repeatedly?*
Maybe some clubs *should* prioritise off-field at the expense of their teams in the short term?
Ironic, when chronic short termism and spending on the team on the pitch at the expense of everything else is the besetting problem that has got us to here...
*actually it's just occurred to me that in the case of a lash up in lieu of doing it properly then those would, but that's up to the individual club ideally not to do it. @Dave T said it much more succinctly while I was writing!
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2 hours ago, Cheadle Leyther said:
I think you’ll find that the Sun, Daily and Sunday Mirror, People and Star do give match reports and previews. Indeed the Daily Star describes itself on the front page as THE Rugby League newspaper.What irks me is the slavish coverage of Union in the so called quality papers of the Times, Telegraph, Express, Mail and yes Guardian. This in a sport that has had its top division reduced to only 9 clubs. Moreover attendances at both codes teams are quite similar. I know it’s often said ours is a Northern sport, but look at their spread- 3 in the South West, 2 In the Midlands, 2 in London and 2 in whole of the North-hardly the whole country. I’m afraid the closure of the northern offices of these newspapers many years ago has led to this situation. It is especially disappointing with regards to the Guardian which of course started off as the Manchester Guardian.
Oh for my Neville Cardus of long ago!!
agree, but it's 10 rather than 9. They started 22-23 with 13 clubs in the top division rather than 12.
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3 hours ago, Coggo said:
Maybe they will change the name again.
Midlands is a terrible name.
Come on, Midlands! Up the Midlands! etc. Naff. Where is the Midlands anyway?
Why not at least West Midlands Hurricanes? Naming it after a county offers some sort of identity and sense of belonging.
Or, even better, Birmingham Hurricanes.
As a local, because it's the West Midlands. No one identifies with the West Midlands, they identify with their town, or to an extent which seems to surprise people who think counties have died, their county. Which unfortunately for this area means Warwickshire, Worcestershire and Staffordshire, rather than the West Midlands County, which sort of exists officially, but no one identifies with at all. It doesn't even fit neatly by area into one or other of the 'old' counties - Birmingham contains bits of all three, everywhere else is only in one of them.
So the quickest way to cut off a section of fanbase is to choose 'Warwickshire' or 'Birmingham' as names. Warwickshire will lose you Worcestershire and the Black Country (Staffs mostly, with some Worcs), Birmingham will lose you anything that isn't Birmingham. Which is an issue when you've got a legacy fanbase from Coventry.
The bitterest rivalry is Worcestershire vs Warwickshire - which in cricket knocks a roses match into a cocked hat except no one from away from the midlands seems to know about it. It's so bitter that many people would rather not attend the away match - so as not to put money into whichever of Worcs or Warks they don't support.
Hurricanes' link up with Warwickshire CCC was a regrettable lapse that does, at a visceral level, make it difficult for both me and some other Worcs CCC fans I know to support them. Unfortunately I'm serious, even though typing it out feels ridiculous.
About the only other name which they could have tried I think is something like Three Counties Hurricanes, which would also have been a dog's breakfast.
They're stuck with 'Midlands' because they've come to Birmingham from Coventry and didn't want to lose existing fans. Birmingham would arguably have been cleaner in terms of trying to start from scratch, but unfortunately, Birmingham v Coventry is another massive and sometimes bitter rivalry, in cricket, football, and RU.... IMO they were right to avoid it.
It's one of the problems in trying to graft a new sport into an area that's a seething mess of pre-existing rivalries. There are a lot of people in the West Midlands, but it's not straightforward.
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2 minutes ago, Coggo said:
Have you seen the NRL's latest financial results (and how they compare with the RFL)?
while there is definitely a fact there, it doesn't actually contradict anything in the post you've quoted?
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3 hours ago, N2022 said:
And as others have said risk of upsetting fans where there is an inter-town or city rivalry
I'm not totally sure that was the issue being highlighted in the case of Huddersfield/Sheffield....
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2 hours ago, sam4731 said:
I'd welcome each team taking a home game on the road, with a split which rotates each year.
Current SL teams:
Castleford - Bramall Lane
Huddersfield- Hillsborough
Leeds- Elland Road
St Helens- Anfield
Wigan- Etihad
Warrington- Everton New Ground
Catalans- Paris
Salford- Bolton Stadium
London- Craven Cottage
Leigh- Stoke Stadium
Hull FC- Riverside Stadium
Hull KR- Stadium of Light
as ever though this comes back to the age-old argument about what they're being taken on the road for - is it different venues in the heartlands, or on their periphery, or is it new territory? Your list works for the former, but as an RL starved southerner I'd like to throw some, any or all of the following into the mix:
Stadium MK, CBS Stadium Coventry, Ashton Gate, St Marys, Home Park
I get that its the ultimate pins in a map pitch, but there's a difference between taking games 'on the road' and taking games 'down the road/round the corner'
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58 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:
goes to show how pointless scrums are in RL and need replacing with an alternative
been a while since someone has said this, so I might as well say it (because I believe it, which helps):
or they could just, you know, contest the scrums properly... it's about the only change I'd make to the whole sport, just enforce all the rules as written...
[ducks]
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27 minutes ago, up the robins said:
How does the sport stand if players all signed wavers saying they accept the dangerous sport they are playing and acknowledge the potential for head injury or long term problems leading from head knocks and that they will not be able to seek any compensation for this.
Red herring - people keep mentioning it but it's not how the law works. Waivers enforce some things, but they don't absolve one side totally either. There will always be a possible court case, most probably on the grounds of duty of care, and there will always be an existential threat therefore to governing bodies.
The most worrying, and it's behind a paywall but I read it in the Times the other week, was a throwaway line in an article/letter from a group of doctors advocating the banning of rugby (both codes) for Under 18s. They wanted to do that on the grounds that Under 18s have no competency to decide to put themselves at such risk - *but* (and here's the stinger) they also said that *no one at all* has the competency to do so either really...
Now, that's extremism, but we come back to the point that 'sign something and crack on' isn't a panacea for the reason that like many simple and seductive things, it won't work.
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1 hour ago, Hopie said:
If you have bought a service where you can watch games as live on catch up its obvious why you would want the scores and incidents from one game not to be spoiled in coverage of another game.
but again, how many people - not on here but in the big world outside - will have done that?
I don't particularly support any of the current SL teams, but if Trin hadn't been relegated I'd have considered getting the service (I don't have Sky) because £120 or whatever it is per year is enough *just to watch their matches*. I wouldn't have sat through many of the others. As it is, I'm happy as a neutral with the BBC's FTA offering, and did watch Cas v Wigan on Saturday, which I probably wouldn't have had the BBC/C4/terrestrial not carried it. I'll be watching the WCC (probably) on the same basis.
£120 isn't much to watch one game a week, and I reckon most people will be fans of one or other of the SL sides doing it to do just that.
If the numbers doing that tip away from those wanting to watch multiple matches, then them's the breaks. As someone watching one match a week in a bit of focused 'time for RL' then I actually quite like the brief updates of what's going on elsewhere because I'm not going to follow them up beyond maybe the highlight clips on the BBC Sport App (which I've downloaded at the weekend, just because the BBC now has the SL highlights....). And watched them all. Seriously, having watched all the available highlight clips and the Cas match I've probably just watched more RL in a weekend than I have ever before. In here that makes me a rank amateur. Away from here I bet more of the UK RL viewing public looks more like me.
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26 minutes ago, Dave T said:
Where's Big Picture when you need them?
In a big city, with international name recognition?
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I'm a bit conflicted by this too. It's very difficult to even write it, especially given the obvious and some of the most recent posts in the thread, but as a general rule I'm not sure I agree with anything being named after anyone (not just in sport) until they're no longer around.
This is absolutely, categorically nothing against RB - I'm sitting here and can see his autobiography across the room.
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Isaiah Vagana NZ Warriors to Trinity
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2 hours ago, Trojan Horse said:
Yes you can purchase to watch it anytime after the game has finished.
Winner - ta
do you mean purchase it in advance btw?
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Shorter response is I’m just saying what I think’s happening
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35 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:
Same question to you as to the Ginger one Foxy, what if it proves to be an unsuccessful exercise in the amatuer game, what then?
You mention the top as being internationals, I strongly doubt that the Southern Hemisphere will follow suit and if they don't does the RFL reverse the rulings for Internationals or abandon them completely?
Quite honestly I am not very concerned what they do in t'other game I have no time for it.
And I’ve said nothing about what I think - all I’ve said is what I think the RFL thinks.
FWIW I don’t think your first question will arise (or be allowed to). But if it did then when the facts change the rules change. Incidentally that cuts both ways…
To your final paragraph, here’s why you should be concerned what the RFU do - on this one, they are the canary in the coal mine and if you don’t think the RFL and RFU are talking to each other, and to an extent walking down the same path and tinkering each in response to the other then can I interest you in a bridge?
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38 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:
Please excuse my ignorance, but I would have thought in SL's case that a collection of full time pro's at the club training for maybe 5 days a week and the coach being able to afford more time to the adjustments as opposed to amatuer lads who would be doing in all probability 85% less training than their professional counterparts that the pro's would be more adaptable to the new rulings.
Do you think if it does not go well at amateur level, those at the RFL will abandon the new rules after all the claims they have made why it is nessacary to bring them in, they have made their statements now they will be obliged to follow them through even if the "amatuer trial" proves to be disastrous.
I get the feeling this is not going to end very well.
I don’t think you’re thinking about this conspiratorially enough. A look over the fence at the other code might help (for once) here.
English RU is currently in the first season of the game from tier three down having different tackling rules from tiers 1-2.
why? Because clubs in the top tier play clubs from other countries, and supply the internationals, and clubs in level 2 provide game time for level 1 players.
the theory in RU is that they can’t change the fully pro game until everyone in the world does it, and so they need levels 3 down to provide a weight of evidence which makes the case.
RFL is doing it slightly differently, because they are moving the top tier over unilaterally, but again it’s all about building a case for bouncing people into it who don’t want to do it.
in a year’s time, the hope will be that the RFL is saying something like ‘because of this, xyz has happened. Why stand in the way of safety and who are you to deny the facts?’
so it’s absolutely not a direct comparison between the two codes, but I’d argue the RFL and RFU (for different audiences) are essentially on manoeuvres here and it’s all about message management.
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Is it likely to be on OurLeague afterwards? No chance of watching it live but I’d watch a catch up at some point next week…
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38 minutes ago, Futtocks said:
Plus there are many minor fee-paying schools (who aren't high-profile like Eton, Harrow, Rugby, Charterhouse, Stowe, etc.) still scattered across the country. Still charging a fairly hefty amount per annum, but not top whack: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_private_schools_in_England
These would be where the majority of the aspirational middle-classes' kids would go. They would traditionally have Rugby Union as the Autumn term main sport in pretty much every case.
Yes, with the anomaly that as I noted the smartest schools (Eton, Harrow) preferred soccer
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9 minutes ago, Big Picture said:
By what strange standard can a school like Rugby School (where the upper class sent their sons to be educated) ever be considered "middle class"??? That's bizarre to say the least.
Until about 40 years ago, if you went away to boarding school you were the son of a doctor, small town solicitor, vicar etc. it’s only in the facilities arms race since about 1980 that it’s gone out of the reach of mere mortals.
The ‘upper class’ went to Eton, Harrow, or had a tutor at home.
the whole point of the public schools was that they were affordable by the middle class. Hence the period in the 50s and 60s when you probably got a better education in a state school (with better facilities) and the public schools were famously Spartan. Rugby was good, but it had the sons of farmers, vicars, and trade in its ranks.
If the government had!’t closed most of the grammars in the late 60s and early 70s, by now they’d probably have killed off or absorbed most of the private sector by outcompeting them to the point where all you were paying for was the cache…
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22 minutes ago, Snowys Backside said:
Great news this on Wakefields transition back into SL, for which I think will be a formaility.
Not sure if it has been mentioned, but why didn't they show the same ambition and determination last year and try to stay up ?? Other than the purple patch resulting in them almost catching Cas and blowing it, relegation seemed to be their goal last year rather than staying in SL
Small matter of the new owner spending money now, not being the owner then…
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23 hours ago, Dave T said:
Rugby League is still Rugby, the mug is fine although I don't like the elegant violence things, that is very Union.
Or Brian Redhead on RL, circa the Game That Got Away?
Given the number of people seemingly raging against any suggestion of a move back to a game of avoidance from a game of collision (and the puff quotes from the NRL players in Vegas about what the public should expect to see…), it strikes me it can only be the ‘elegance’ or otherwise that’s the issue….
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1 hour ago, DoubleD said:
There's plenty to be despondent about in the state of the game, from the declining TV revenues to the state of the international calendar.
However, in spite of this, there are some really positive developments across the whole of the English/French game:
- Wigan - new ownership, greater collaboration with the football team, development and commercialisation of Robin Park
- Hull KR - impressive BoD, development of Craven Streat, ownership and future development of surrounding land
- Leeds - largest sponsorship deal ever signed
- Oldham - new ownership group, new £1m training facility asset which can be commercialised and return to Boundary Park
- Wakefield - new ownership and further stadium development plans
- Castleford - new investor and stadium development plans gaining traction
- Cornwall - tie up with Truro and move to new stadium
- Midlands - move to the new Alexander stadium
- Sheffield - investment and proposed move into new stadium with Sheffield FC
- Toulouse - new investor and plans for new purpose built stadium
- Catalan - stadium expansion and development plans
- Huddersfield - new training complex complete
- Keighley - stadium development
- Warrington - perhaps 2024 will be their year
I’m glad someone has posted this. There’s a lot wrong in the sport, but there are definitely reasons to be (a bit) cheerful too.
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18 minutes ago, BristolDevonCharlie said:
This paragraph is exactly my point.
People where I am from have grown up being told RL is just a budget sport (/ a poor imitation of Union) for northerners. Poor crowds, lack of pitch markings and non-neutral refs, etc reinforce that stereotype.
This is very resonant. For those of us down here who actively seek out and choose RL, this is the backdrop. ‘Rugby on a budget of 20p and no scrums’ - it’s not fair, it’s not accurate, but it’s the shorthand for RL for far too many people.
trying to persuade the average person any different is like shouting into a wind tunnel in my sadly extensive experience.
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Put another way, there have always been northern based Old Etonians lurking on RL terraces. The ‘elite’ are not and have never been RL’s enemies. It was the wannabes that had an interest in keeping it down. That misunderstanding is common, and has probably done damage over the decades.
Tony Collins will give chapter and verse.
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Is RL media dead?
in The General Rugby League Forum
Posted
If you live in the south, and weren't born to RL, Forty20 is an absolute lifeline every month. Great magazine.