Wiltshire Warrior Dragon
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Posts posted by Wiltshire Warrior Dragon
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3 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:
I would not watch either of those games if they were played in my back garden, it is what it is, if the preference for some is nancyball then go ahead and watch that otherwise watch a proper game.
PS Harry Kane, is he the one who keeps rolling about on the floor if someone gives him a nasty look.
3 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:What about all those who want to get rid of P&R, surely they will have no interest in this game, unless they are two faced so 'n so's.
I wholly agree with your first post, Harry. I tried watching a bit of PL soccer the other day - needless, tippy-tappy, back-passing nonsense most of the time augmented by moments of faux melodrama ("Ref, he breathed over me!") I soon switched it off.
I wholly disagree with your second point. Professional sportsmen should always try; it's what they are paid to do and, happily, I think that most will make the requisite effort, whether or not anything beyond merely trying to win that game is immediately relevant. That said, a local derby always has local bragging rights implications too. So, although I am not a fan of P&R - a foreign concept for a significant proportion of the NRFU/RFL era (including when I first became attracted to the game) - I look forward to Friday night's Sky TV offering...and no, I don't think I am a 'two faced so 'n so', though I thoroughly respect your right to think I am.
Actually, on reflection, you are probably right; I am a 'two faced so 'n so'. When I began following the sport in person (1963, I think), there was only one division. I am sure I must have gone to some games with no consequences for the end of season play-offs...AND ENJOYED THEM! I feel awful just thinking of that. Please forgive me for thinking that a match can be enjoyed in its own right, irrespective of whether it has greater consequences.
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Sorry, I forgot to add that, amusing though the story of driving buses into walls is, I don't believe it for a minute. The length and breadth of buses has always been carefully controlled. Coachbuilders and - equally importantly - chassis builders knew what the regulations permitted and would have built chassis and bodies precisely and accordingly.
Still, a great story...!
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Good evening, JohnM.
I have only just come across this thread, so sorry for the delay in contributing. I have previously admitted elsewhere on this forum that I am a bit of a bus anorak - the vehicles, the companies and their operations - at least until about the time of bus deregulation under the Thatcher government, after which my interest waned. But I still actively take an interest in historic buses (especially, say, c 1950 to c. 1970) and the operators at that time.
I can therefore help you out regarding the northern part of your query, at least.
First, the briefest of context. Days out in luxurious charabancs really took off in the 1930s, only to come to a grinding halt because of WWII. In the war years, the government strictly controlled all aspects of bus production, and building coaches, as opposed to service buses, was an absolute no-no. As life slowly returned to normality from about 1947, the need for some enjoyment after the years of wartime austerity and restraint was huge. In terms of trips away, such as to the seaside, there just weren't the coaches available in good enough condition in adequate numbers.
Therefore, it was a boom time for the bus/coach building industry - chassis, engine and coach builders alike, and, in addition to well established companies, such as Duple of Hendon, Plaxton of Scarborough and Harrington of Hove, other, new, small ones sprang up. Some made a go of it - in terms of the quality and quantity of products - and some didn't.
Your father-in-law would have worked at the Greenvale Works in Daisy Hill; his employing company's name was Bellhouse, Hartwell and Co. Ltd. it rode the boom to the mid-1950s, but was quick witted enough to see it was coming to a close, diversified into aviation and, I believe, still exists in one shape or form (not sure under what name).
Books about buses can be extremely dry and difficult reads, even for somebody like me! Happily, the book you should read, if you are so minded, is a glorious exception to that. It specifically charts the contrasting fortunes of two, interconnected post-war coachbuilders, Bellhouse Hartwell and Beccols, and is a thoroughly good read. It is called Twelve Royal Tigers (the Royal Tiger was Leyland Motors' first, mass produced, underfloor engined, singledeck chassis) and is by Eyre, Greaves et al. I see that Amazon have it for sale at about £23. Maybe you could get it for Mrs JohnM for Christmas!
Sorry, but I cannot suggest who the Steyning bodybuilder might have been, but I will ask my brother when next we speak or swap emails. The nearest one to there would have been the long established Thomas Harrington's of Hove. Maybe to cope with the [post-war boom I mentioned they took on additional premises. If I find out more, I will post again.
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And for fans of XIII Limouxin, the current French Elite 1 champions:
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I am sure that some clubs will appreciate having this information on this Sport England grant programme drawn to their attention; thanks for doing so, Futtocks.
Your post prompted me to delve into the RFL's own website and I found some helpful information on grant availability via these pages:
Community Investment & Funding (rugby-league.com)
Grant Funding.pdf (rugby-league.com)
The list which constitutes the latter link is helpful as far as it goes, but it looks pretty brief to me. Grant funding was quite central to parts of my career and, in retirement, I have helped a couple of churches (one in Somerset, where I used to work for the Diocese of Bath & Wells, and the one which I attend regularly in Wiltshire) to raise funds via grants for facilities to make the churches more useful to the wider community.
My 'bible' in such drives to secure grants has always been The Directory of Grant Making Trusts, published annually in both online and paper formats. My edition isn't the latest, being that for 2020/21, but things don't change that quickly in the world of grant-making trusts (GMTs)
In my experience, a lot of people have no idea that such bodies exist, but the introduction to my edition of the directory points out that in 2017/18, the GMTs included in the directory (there are over 2,000 of them) gave grants to organisations with a collective (and staggering) value of £5.62 billion!
If anybody reading this is attached to an RL club that plans to improve its facilities, this directory is a good starting point. Helpfully, it can be searched via location and topics of interest, so, although - with luck! - you will have plenty of GMTs to look into more closely to see if it is worth applying to them, you can quickly give yourself a manageable list to be investigated in more detail.
If anybody wants any help (with no promises how much time I could devote to it), send me a message.
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5 hours ago, The Future is League said:
Could always play pre-season games in the South of France, or perhaps even have a pre-season 9's tournament there.
The government's advice on travelling to the EU seems altogether more relaxed and positive - despite Brexit - so you may have a point, TFIL. I particularly liked the bit entitled "Taking your pet dog, cat or ferret abroad"!
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3 hours ago, georgeb1 said:
If only , coaching and managing a side is not all black and white
it is if you're at Hull FC, isn't it?
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2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:
Well little Leigh are doing things well above their station
What station?
More seriously, great idea.
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2 hours ago, redjonn said:
or maybe they have to ref a couple of community games...
I did wonder about suggesting that, redjohn, but then thought it was a bit harsh to quite possibly lumber a couple of local, amateur club sides with a rubbish referee...if, indeed, such turned out to be the case!
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If Wellens and Rowley (or other coaches) are found to be guilty and need to be punished, maybe the punishment should be compulsory attendance at a referees' course, with the need to qualify at the end of it. No qualification, no coaching position in SL - simple! (Okay, but maybe not entirely practical!)
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The great Billy Boston is 89 today. The birthday lists in The Times (yesterday) and The Sunday Times (today) both note this; they are not regular recorders of rugby league stars' birthdays, which may tell you something about the esteem in which Billy is held, even in non-league circles.
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Today, the great Billy Boston is 89.
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On 03/08/2023 at 15:38, super major said:
I don't blame revers for doing this but it is a good job the match is not vital. Imagine the uproar if they were playing wakey or cas
I suppose it depends what you mean by 'vital', SM. If who gets into the top two and hence gets a home semi-final comes down to points difference, this game could have a big bearing on that. Vital? Possibly not, but significant? Yes, in the context I moot.
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If I were Steve MacNamara, I would be mildly anxious and very wary. Post-Powell Wire could start in this fixture with notable success.
That said, although Les Dracs have often this season appeared to be able to score for fun, especially after an initial phase of well structured attrition, they have also shown an ability to demonstrate great defensive skills, with an element of improvisation on top of a sound structure (is that an oxymoronic phrase? Quite possibly!)
I think, Les Dracs will win this...but only just, in a real nail-biter.
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3 hours ago, moorside roughyed said:
God knows.
And has He shared the information with you? Just asking!
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1 hour ago, Gomersall said:
How do you know Hull KR’s crowd figures when they don’t publish them?
I think, Gomersall, that Gordon's specific Hull KR figure was the crowd they drew when they visited Perpignan. I am not sure of the basis for his more general observation about Hull KR's level of support.
Bernard Guasch's achievement in creating and nurturing Les Dracs is clearly exceptional. I imagine that he has taken his obviously well honed business skills (Accueil - Guasch Viandes (guasch-viandes.com) and combined them with his fervent passion for our game (so fervent that it got him into trouble sometimes in his own playing days - e.g. towards the end of the 1980-81 season) to create the Catalans Dragons club which we have today.
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1 hour ago, Old Frightful said:
4 for Senior.
36-6.
So, in terms of the twins, does this make him the senior Senior?
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2 hours ago, The Hallucinating Goose said:
When I went down to Wembley in 2017 on the coach, I was truly shocked to my soul to discover a species of human even nerdier than people such as myself (aviation nerds), the bus spotter. My God, they were everywhere with their anoraks and cameras, I thought I was in a zombie movie when my Acklams of Beverley coach pulled into the car park and they all started descending on it. Christ, I still get shivers now...
I agree, HG. You cannot get nerdier than a bus spotter!
My interest in RL developed in the 1960s when my family moved fro Gloucestershire and we lived in Astley. One of the bus services running through the village was the 26 from Leigh to Salford. It was jointly operated by Leigh Corporation, Salford Corporation and Lancashire United Transport. Leigh, whose buses were blue and cream, typically used one of their AEC 'Renown' double deckers, with bodywork by East Lancashire Coachbuilders of Blackburn; by contrast, Salford tended to use exposed radiator Daimler CVD6 double deckers, with Metro-Cammell bodywork, always looking attractive in their dark green and cream livery; and the LUT double deckers were usually Guy 'Arab' mark V's with Northern Counties of Wigan bodywork, turned out in the distinctive red and cream (but with an orange tinge) livery of that company.
As you say, HG, you cannot get nerdier than a bus spotter....!
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4 hours ago, Gomersall said:
The OP was about middle class areas rather than the people who attend games. York is middle class IMO. Bath, Harrogate, Cheltenham etc are also middle class IMO but don’t have professional RL teams.
I understand where you are coming from, Gomersall. However, the bigger the place, the harder it is to make a generalisation fit. I think that is true of all the places you list.
Take Bath, for instance. I know it to a degree from my days working for the C of E's Diocese of Bath & Wells.
One of the vicars I worked with was the one for St Michael's, Twerton, which is just down the road from the Bath City FC ground. He stressed to me, when we first met, how working class Twerton was. 'In Bath?', I thought. As it turns out, yes, he was quite right.
Under the government's Indices of Multiple Deprivation, Twerton is one of the 20% most deprived areas in the whole of England. I am sure that Harrogate, Cheltenham and York have similar places; I know them all a bit, but by no means well enough to name the more working class areas within them.
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17 hours ago, LittleboroRoughyed said:
The good thing is there were 230 kids there who now know who Oldham are and were given free tickets to come & watch. Ford has also lead the re-creation of the Oldham town team at junior age groups, negotiated a 10-year lease at Boundary Park from next season (Oldham Athletic c. 12k all seater in heart of the town) & is re-engaging with the fans. Super League is a long-term aspiration but we could easily be similar to Salford, Hudds, Cas, Wakey etc. RL is still strong in the town & the community clubs continue to churn out quality players.
Yeah, but apart from that, what's Mike Ford ever done for Oldham rugby?
....cue Life of Brian.
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Tony Gigot could be - still can be - very good or quite terrible. A high spot was his Lance Todd winning display in Les Dracs' challenge cup final win. A low spot would be Albi's elimination in this year's Elite 1 play-offs. In that game, as I recall, Hakim Miloudi - another blow-hot-blow-cold sort of player - had a terrible game too.
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1 hour ago, WN83 said:
I think they’ve worked really hard on that score and have signed better characters in recent years (in the main). Getting Sam Tomkins and Micky McIlorum on board felt as much to do with them wanting leaders will who set standards, as much as it was because they wanted a couple of good players.
59 minutes ago, barnyia said:This was the reason Alex Chan became manager I believe.
I agree with you, WN83. And of course, even a few years ago, there were some good, conscientious, hard-working southern hemisphere imports; Steve Menzies was a notable one and Scott Dureau another. The other point about the likes of Tomkins and McIllorum is that they have bought into the French lifestyle and I have heard both speak in French (as, I believe, did Dureau)
This quote from Tomkins, in a Sky Sports interview, demonstrates that buy-in to the local lifestyle and culture by Tomkins, who no doubt sees the merits of this to his children, who will grow up being comfortably bilingual:
"I have grown to love this club over the last four and a half years.
As the months and years have gone by, this is home for us now. We are very settled, my children are settled in school speaking French.
They have got a French life. When I moved to France I had two boys who were one and two, now I have got four kids going from seven down to one and they are very French so this is home for us now."
Thanks, barnyia, for confirming what I always thought was the case. Given WN83's opening comment, with which I agree, it could be said that Chan, snr, is doing a good job.
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On 3rd July, 1938, the LNER A4 class pacific no 4468 "Mallard" reached a verified speed of almost 126 mph, which remains the world speed record for a steam railway locomotive. It's hard to see that record ever being broken for obvious reasons.
Tomorrow, we mark the 400th anniversary of the death of one of England's greatest composers, William Byrd. I arrived home about an hour ago from a recital given by Salisbury Cathedral choir in my village church. It opened with four anthems by Byrd; they sounded as fresh and beautiful as the day they were written.
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Rugby League has a unique place amongst the sports in which I take some interest and it is this. It has laws of play which are routinely ignored, or the 'penalising' of infringements of which consists of no more than the ref telling the offending player to try again and get it right.
This is particularly true of the PTB, which brings me to the Houghton incident in which he was penalised for pushing a Dragons player (I think it was Garcia) out of the way.
Here is what the law on PTBs actually says:
10. The play-the-ball shall operate as follows.
Release tackled player immediately (a) The tackled player shall be immediately released and shall not be touched until the ball is in play.
Regain feet (b) The tackled player shall without delay regain his feet where they were tackled, lift the ball clear of the ground, face the opponent’s goal line and drop or place the ball on the ground in front of their foremost foot.
Player marking (c) One opponent may take up the position immediately opposite the tackled player.
(d) The tackled player may not play the ball before the players effecting the tackle have had time to clear the ruck.
So, how much of that law is actually implemented routinely and regularly? I would suggest only (c).
There is constant nudging by opponents of the player they have just tackled, so (a) is not regularly enforced.
To suggest (b) is followed is a joke. Players routinely step forward two or three paces and suffer no more disapproval than being told to retreat to the point of the tackle. Why? To put it another way, why not suggest when a player throws a forward pass, that everyone returns to the last PTB and gives the forward pass thrower another chance to get it right?
Still on the subject of (b), when was the last time you saw a tackled player, on regaining his feet, drop the ball in front of their foremost foot and not get pinged for either a knock-on or incorrect PTB? No, I cannot remember either!
(d) was the nub of the issue yesterday. The current obsession with fast PTBs means that (d) above is routinely ignored. Another law extols the virtue of speed at the PTB - fair enough, but it doesn't override the detail of (d) above. However, tacklers have, for quite some time, been used to the idea that, after the teckle has been made, they must stay where they are for fear of being judged to have interfered with the attacker when they are getting out of the way and because they know that (d) will be ignored.
This is the route to ever quicker, but ever messy, PTBs.
I know I am just a quirky old eccentric, but wouldn't it be good to have a sport in which all the laws of play and only the laws of play (ie no passing, faddish interpretations of them) are enforced on the field of play.
Meanwhile, back at the Houghton incident, who do you penalise? Houghton for interfering with a tackler? Garcia for not attempting to get out of the way? Or the tackled player (forget who it was) for not allowing Garcia time to get out of the way?
Take your pick...and good luck!
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Sat 19th Aug: SL: Leigh Leopards v Catalans Dragons KO 15:00 (Sky)
in The General Rugby League Forum
Posted
I agree. Wells said he was ending his conversation with Tomkins because their time was up, after which we got some not very lucid chat from the three in the open air, studio box. Why the producer didn't make an instant decision to keep with Wells and Tomkins, at the expense of the Brian/Barry/Phil chat, I don't know.
Yes, Tomkins will remain in the game when he hangs up his boots. he is staying at Catalans in a non-playing capacity: for one thing, I think he enjoys the lifestyle in the south of France; for another, he has said how much he values his children growing up to be comfortably bilingual. I would be surprised if that new role at Les Dracs, however it turns out, didn't give him even more leeway than this season to do TV work.