HarrogateKnights
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Posts posted by HarrogateKnights
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42 minutes ago, The Rocket said:
G`day Harrogate, I`ve been back a few times now to have a look at the footage you posted of X-League being played on what looks like a tennis court, I also searched high and low for the post where you describe the rules of X-League but have been unable to find it, Pedant gives one clue away below about the touch being on the ball, and I think you mention kicking somewhere as well. Couple of things, firstly I assume the game could be scaled up so that more than three players per side could be accommodated, is that so, and perhaps if you could refer to me something to get a better handle on the rules.
You explain very comprehensively above where you are coming from in trying to set a `Touch` competition that is not automatically associated with English Rugby union on the one hand and yet your desire to avoid the prohibitively expensive costs associated with a TTR franchise for your participants on the other, especially in what is a bit of fun on a weeknight.
I suppose the RLF are in a bind here because they can`t subsidise the costs of shorts and tags for Rugby League clubs like yourself because they are affiliated with the TTR franchise system and they TTR I gather are making money out of selling that kit. And having read the TTR franchise promotion you posted earlier it is depressingly `rugby this` and `rugby that`, honestly it sounded like one great big promotion for union to me.
Do you ultimately consider X-League to be to be English Rugby Leagues` long term competitor with England Rugby`s domination of the Touch competitions, would that be your ultimate goal, you did mention that you are having a WC in November and have RFL backing., and what are their plans with X-League, is it being encouraged at other clubs. I read somewhere here the other day about Coventry`s popular Touch and Tag competitions, I wonder who they are aligned with.
It would seem to me that the RFL, IRL even the ITFF all need to sit down and plan a comprehensive strategy of what needs to be played and where.
Thanks for checking us out, we use that pitch as a training pitch. It's designed for 5 aside soccer but allows us to train better as players haven't got the space of 50-60 metres like you would on a grass pitch setup. Also it's cheaper, floodlit and all weather. Generally it's 7 a side for 13 minutes so we have been doing attack vs defence drills etc. I was on the AGM call today of X-League and there long term aim is for a X-league UK circuit going to different venues etc amongst other tournaments and bringing X-league into the RFL coaches framework as part of using X-league to develop skill sets.
We can offer X-league for 1 hour (4 x 13 minute games) for £2-3 per player turn up and play. That's without any kit sponsors or anything like that. X-League see it as a stepping stone up or down through to contact RL or you could play X-league in its own right. Since those videos have been taken we have had regular 5 a side games on that pitch which we might have to scale up to a bigger pitch at some point.
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16 minutes ago, The Rocket said:
I had been pondering this very observation the last couple of days following the article on the `International Rugby League` Thread about the success and positivity that surrounded the recent IRL backed event in India.
I posted my thoughts on that thread just now and are an echo of and an expansion on the advantages that may accrue of presenting Rugby League in a `contact/non-contact package` in new markets.
It does open another interesting angle of this debate though, especially given I know that you consider `Touch` Rugby League to be lost cause in your part of the world. I will touch on it briefly here in that the big advantage that touch does have over other forms of non-contact is its` potential to be played as a `casual` version of our game given the lack of equipment required. Thoughts.
Totally agree with this point. Our club considered TTRL (Oztag) but even if we decided to run it ourselves from the club the tags are £45 for 2 sets and then each player would have to pay £17 each for a pair of approved shorts before you get going . We settled on X-League due to it being run by the RFL. Touch Rugby run by the England Touch association is a sport that is dominated by Union teams on O2 touch festivals seem to try and take that variant. When Covid allows we are having our own social X-league even every Friday 7-8pm then option to go to the bar after and the clubs social secretary is at the heart of this arranging after games meet ups for food etc every so often. We will be involved with the X-League world cup this year too. I played tag and it is something that we may consider socially if the interest gains and have a minimum contact evening with both options available.
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On 31/12/2020 at 01:23, unapologetic pedant said:
Just to avoid any misunderstanding, the number of players in a League Tag side from 13 years grade through to open age is 11.
When you mentioned running a League Tag comp alongside next year`s WC, I wasn`t so sure. Mainly due to the costs, and that it could get lost amid the 3 concurrent WCs (men`s, women`s, wheelchair) already scheduled. Plus there`s the question would it be men`s or women`s. And there`s a well-established separate Oztag/TRL WC.
On reflection, I think you`re right. There could have been a 4 team comp - England, Ireland, Australia, New Zealand. Surely the cost of that wouldn`t be too high. The Aussies would be favourites, but all 4 nations should be competitive, given that they are in Oztag/TRL.
A major problem in our international Tackle game is its stratification and the unbridgeable gaps between the strata. Establishing systems in Serbia or Greece that can produce players able to compete with the French, let alone with Aus/Eng/NZ, is virtually impossible when the playing pool is so initially restricted by the physically demanding nature of the game.
Seeing an Irish League Tag team, made up of actual Irish people, holding their own at a RLWC event would highlight the development potential. Without the deterrent effects of tackling, a nascent RL nation can grow their participation rates much faster. Thus in a few short years their standards improve and they can realistically attempt to compete against the best. All the while raising the general profile of the game of Rugby League. This would take decades or forever with just the Tackle game.
There is already a X-League "World Cup" scheduled for 17-24th November in Sheffield. England is split between at Least Yorkshire and Lancashire as 2 separate teams with Japan apparently playing in that Tournament.
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On 12/12/2020 at 19:25, unapologetic pedant said:
TTR don`t generally appear too flush. A lot of the players are in nondescript sportswear. They look like groups of joggers, hard to distinguish who belongs to which team. The contrast with the NSW League Tag teams in their gleaming club uniforms is striking. If the RFL integrated TTR into our clubs, creating a whole greater than the sum of the parts, they ought to be able to lever in more funding.
But only if the RFL truly see Tag as a priority in building the RL fanbase. So long as they persist in merely paying lip service, TTR will be wise to keep their independence.
The RFU might have more money but they also have people who better understand how to invest it for long term growth. If the RFL were given a million pounds to spend on development through the community clubs, and one programme would yield 1000 Tackle players but another would yield 100 000 Tag players, no doubt the former would get the largesse. If a million were given to a pro RL club for development, they`d sign two 35 year old Aussies.
It`s hard not to admire the RFU`s slick and surreptitious capture of Touch from its roots in League. Notwithstanding that 7s has arguably less in common with Union 15s than Touch/Tag has with Tackle RL, it`s inconceivable that 7s would have been left languishing and available to be adopted as a means of promoting League. Even the most hidebound of committed-to-15s RU stalwarts would never have been stupid enough to let that happen. Cave-dwellers with a proven anti-Midas touch however are more than capable of effortlessly letting Touch and Tag slip through their net.
I can only comment from the Leeds leagues I have played for but there are a couple of teams that have made the effort for custom kit and have large playing groups that will play up to 3 times a week between them. The rest are either people that don't want the additional cost or teams that are made up of individuals hence the orange/yellow tag to tell the teams apart. You are usually paying in the region of £40 per league per 8 weeks which can soon rack up. When we looked at TTR as our possible "minimal" contact option for our team we ruled it out on 2 things.
1) is the cost at £388 for a team for 8 sessions works with a recommended max of 10 players. Is £48.50 per session for the team. Games are only 40 mins so you could be charging £5 each for 20 mins.
2) The main problem for us is the travel, on top of the above we would be travelling for 30-40 mins before and after to the game.
So for 90 mins commitment each week it doesn't add value in either cost or practice minutes as you spend more traveling than playing.
Although I like the fact the RFL have "ownership" I think it should be a sidelined social sport run separately as it is now. I have said this previously on here and on podcasts too but for me X-league belongs with the clubs its already a developing tool for coaches of all ages when you don't want to smash up your fellow players in training but want to plan you attack vs defence. It doesn't require any additional equipment and you can play against each other.
Some of our players are going to be in the running for selection for the X-League World Cup running in November next year in Sheffield. This hopefully can be a catalyst for more teams to get involved. With us advertising X-league as a social sport we run a dedicated evening all year round for it with players paying to play just that will local tournaments around the corner early next year and events such as hosting the local Round table social evening amongst other events we have entering the diary.
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7 hours ago, The Rocket said:
Great to hear from someone who actually plays it, I haven`t played for 30 years, back in the 90`s, but remember there be literally hundreds of people at a park in the Eastern Suburbs of Sydney, Rooster territory, at the competition I was in. At that stage there was no affiliation with the NRL, that was something that would take another 15 years before the penny would drop, that `Hey, there are a lot of people here who probably never followed a League team in their life, do they know what they are playing is a version of League`. I went along with a mate and his girlfriend, she was of Indian origins, previously she wouldn`t know one end of a football from the other, I`ll never forget the sight of her flying down the wing ball in hand, the whole extended family are dedicated Manly Sea Eagles followers now.
Back to what you are saying, I agree the ability to make breaks is essential, it`s part of the whole excitement of all the different versions of League, not enough in tackle if you ask me these days, broken field running , someone being chased by someone else are all things that people love to watch and are fun to be part of. One question though, why the rule about keeping the kick below head height ? Anyway thanks for your contribution it`s great to have someone actually involved contribute, otherwise we would never know the details like you describe above. Regards Rocket.
The only thing I can think of it limits the liklihood of collisions if I put up a spiral bomb as it dropped most people that play the sport haven't played league (well not in the UK) so it could help that way.
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We have been playing and involved with X-league for some months now and as soon as we could play instead of standard touch we did. Straight away I noticed the players competitiveness and skill level raise. From a engagement point of view the guys who run X-league are great to chat too and bounce ideas off.
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Regarding cost for a player for TTR the standard shorts are £13 you can get other ones that are designed with a particular comp like Yorkshire or London etc too. It's approx £5 a session paid up front in bulk so £50 per player for 10 sessions which can seem a little pricey if like some do play in multiple leagues. A pack of tags are £45 (covered by the league). But to be apart of TTR you would need a franchise and that is the part that put me off. When thinking minimum contact, I thought about the options and I thought about setting up a league in Harrogate but the risk of the business and facilities costs on top. It might have worked if I could draw the corporate market to Harrogate potentially.
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6 hours ago, The Rocket said:
Let us know how it goes.
It was a fantastic session we are using a 3G cage pitch at Rossett Sports Centre in Harrogate. Was hard work be well worth it. Link below shows very limited amount of the hour session https://youtu.be/zp6VNA2CXmc
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On the topic of minimum contact versions of RL. X-league is making its debut in Harrogate tonight, with a coaching and playing session. Under Harrogate Fire Ants, we our leasing our own 3G cage pitch for the hour long session. We are one of 2 teams in North Yorkshire (the other being York City Knights foundation) , interestingly thus far no team in West Yorkshire, so plenty of development work to be done
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X-league have a tournament in Sheffield in October next year which is set to raise the profile of the game. It will be interesting if TTR follow suit.
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Ashleigh Seddon is a "social inclusion officer" at the RFL she has been at the heart of sending the return to play correspondence out when it comes to X-league (used to be Euro tag) but now comes under the RFL banner.
When I was setting up our teams I went with X-league as our non contact form as England Touch are their own organisation and to be a registered team you need to pay them. Try tag rugby run out of different venues but are franchised with the equipment etc. X-league is the cheapest and easiest option and also the most like rugby league due to the kicking.
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It is on our agenda for the Harrogate Knights meeting on 27th May at 7:30pm at the Empress (excuse the plug). However I have started (Stu Morris) a standing order from my bank for £10 per month if we think we get on average 1600+ regular home fans out of that probably in the region of 1000 adults. If everyone was doing between £5-10 a month thats we would be raking in £5000-10,000 a month which could go a hell of a long way recruitment wise. I am not saying everyone can afford to do that much or that everyone should do that much but a recruitment drive maybe some prizes put forward by club sponsors or even a sponsor of a raffle draw itself as a Squadbuilder draw or similar could help?
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Touch/Tag Rugby League TTRL
in The General Rugby League Forum
Posted
I have found from playing both X-league is more like full contact as you tend to tackle the ball in a sense when wrapping up your opponent and is a little more physical due to the tag positions on the side of the shorts but you do raise a valid point on the referee at the moment alot of it is a "gentleman/captains" agreement, rather than playing for competition you would admit if ball was touched and not seen by the referee.