crashmon
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Posts posted by crashmon
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1 hour ago, Sports Prophet said:
Host a match in London every year for ten years, yeah, I think that’s a good idea, but this build it and they will come stuff is short of the mark. It takes an equal mix of a brilliant strategy and marketing campaign delivered to an high standard along with competitive opponents to make it successful.
On this I am 100% in agreement, you can't just stage it and expect people will come, you have to make it an event, call it the London or England smash, market League as smash Mouth rugby with the big hits followed by the little guys (al rob Burrow) running circles around the larger men. You need stoires around the game, you need to big it up in ways to get the interest.
the point that annoys people around London is that the Semi Final drummed up loads of interest in RL, and we have a real oppurtunity here to really give England RL in London a start. Everybody at the time remembered Samoa (not now far too late), so you could have sold it as the Revenge tour, Marketed Tonga as Big Brother of Samoa, and played up on the SF loss as much as possible for this game.Just a huge missed opportunity, and for a lot of RL fans in the south it really annoys us that once again RL is shown to be a small abstract sport which outside of a small shrinking area is completly unknown and insignificant.
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Let me try and sum it up in 2 bullet points
- People in the heartlands go to an England RL international as its a Rugby League game which happens to features England
- The London Demographic will go to an England RL game as its England playing and the sport happens to be Rugby League
Thats at least after a) growing up in north west, but b) having 20+ years living in the south when speaking to people about RL
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39 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:
I think what is being overlooked is the credibility factor.
A WC comes with immediate credibility, simply by virtue of the event which it is. So getting a good crowd in a large stadium in London for a WC is in turn an immediately easier a task.
Where a matchup lacks the credibility of the event itself, it is desperately reliant on the hard core fans to believe in the event to drive its way into public consciousness. We see that fall flat in the heartlands against France and delivers miserable results.
I don’t dispute Tonga is a much bigger draw for RL fans than France, but I am not even confident the RFL could fill out Brentford, Loftus or The Den for England v Tonga.
Ok Let me explain.
After the WC semi final the people I took to that game enjoyed it, and they would have come to a London test this year regardless of who England played. This is not because they are RL converts, not because they are changing there views on the game vs Union or Soccer, but because watching England play RL was a fun thing to do.
We could have played andorra and they would have bought tickets to a test this year, just based on what they saw last year.My whole point is that if you commit to playing once match every year in London, and do it for at lest 10 years, if you market it right and sell it right you will probably see attendances grow over the years.
So 2023 you get 20K in Brentford
If marketed right, 2024 you get 25K. 2025 you get 32K etc
Playing in the heartlands attendances are going down year on year.
London needs to be seen as a long term investment at International level.
Let me put this another way, if every England RU club went part time, and Engalnd RU playes had to play in france for club games, you will still sell out twickenham every six nations match. What we are building is an England RL presence in London here.
I don't think your ever going to get club RL established in London, but if you can get International RL an event like the 6 nations is that should be the aim. But its a 10-20 year aim, not a 3 year lets see aim-
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Sheffield will win as Bulls will not want to finish third and get Fax in playoffs. They will want 4th or 5th so they play London
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I can see both London and Tolouse losing as both have one eye on the playoffs. London are pretty safe (needs 50+ points shift from Batley or York to displace them, and can't see either of them getting close, Batley playing on sat will also alert London in terms of what points difference they might need as well).
Fax on the other hand have to win, which put Swinton in the most danger IMHO
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3 hours ago, John Drake said:
Discuss this weekend's non-televised Betfred Championship games.
SATURDAY 23rd SEPTEMBER
Batley Bulldogs v Newcastle Thunder KO 15:00
Featherstone Rovers v Widnes Vikings KO 18:00
Whitehaven v Toulouse Olympique KO 15:00SUNDAY 24th SEPTEMBER
Barrow Raiders v York KO 15:00
Halifax Panthers v Swinton Lions KO 15:00
London Broncos v Keighley Cougars KO 15:00Lots to play for, but going with the above. I do expect London to still qualify for playoffs as I don't see York winning by 50
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You would get more playing France in London then in North West IMHO, if you marketed it right. Remember we see so little International RL in London, you get people in just owing to how rare it is
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5 minutes ago, Eddie said:
Most people in England who are interested in sport (and would contemplate going to a rugby match if either code) know full well there are two types of rugby. Also living in East Anglia I don’t think many people look down in League either, they know it’s ferocious, it’s just there are no teams for them to watch so hence no interest.
This is true, where I am, for your Union fans, football is much more looked down upon than league They don't have much interest in League (but would watch an england game in London as long as it did not clash with an England Union game), but you would never get them inside a football stadium even if you gave them free tickets.
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1 hour ago, Eddie said:
Who will the average punter think of as top RL teams then? Do you think we’d get better crowds against South Africa or Scotland just because they play Union, or Brazil because they’re good at football?
In the people I work with, talk to, go drinking with have as much interest in RL as they do in knitting, (but a lot went to the SF vs Samoa go figure) basically think that a country which is a top team in Union, must also be a top team in League (as League is rugby for people who like a british version of american football). SO they would expect England to struggle vs South Africa in League, but annihilate PNG, as there reference would be union.
But they would go to both games as they enjoy going to the big occassion and seeing England live. It really would not matter who the opposition was, as long as it was a genuine test (they would not go to an Enfland A vs Ireland for instance, would need to be the full England team).My reference to netball was not on the attendance, but more on the fact that who the opposition are does not really matter if you know nothing of the sport, and are going because its england playing
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Netball is a good example here. England netball games are sell outs, but could you name the top 5 netball teams in the world. People go to see England, not who they are playing. RL is closer to netball in peoples consciousness outside of M62 than it is to sports teams like Union, Cricket, Soccer for instance. Your average Punter in the south would be no more aware of Tonga being a top 4 team, as say South Africa or Jamaica.
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11 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:
Lol, yeah that’s some interesting figures.
For those calling on a match in London, there is no way to the casual fan that Tonga are as big a draw as NZ. Especially in RWC time. I can understand why they kept this one to the heartlands. Would have been good though to see game one somewhere big like Etihad though.
The point is that the opposition is irrelevent. You make a big play of England RL in London, you make england the attraction not who they are playing.
You fix dates and venues three years in advance, as you will find the 72 hours after the game will be the time most people still buzzing from the experience is when they buy tickets.
about 20 ish years ago I went to see 49ers vs Broncos at Wembley for the NFL London game. The game was ###### (both teams where weak at the time and both having bad seasons), but the game was a sellout, and every NFL top was represented, around us was sat Bears fans, Dolphins fans, Rams fans (not Dewsbury sadly) etc. And most people we sat with went to the game every year, regardless of who was actually playing. Come forward 20 years and we have 3 games now in London every year.
People come to the event. You make the England games in London an event and people will come.
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2 hours ago, FearTheVee said:
It's a good test for the organisers - getting three sell outs (or close thereto) for a series vs Tonga would be progress irrespective of media coverage. Half empty stadiums in the heartlands I agree will be a poor outcome.
Re: venues - people get nostalgic for the halcyon days of Ashes series and forget that the last one we hosted had games at the DW, KC and McAlpine (or whatever they are called now) and I don't think we even sold out the KC for game 2 of the Ashes. We need to build up a core support for England RL playing proper series against proper opposition as part of a proper calenda - haopefully this is stage one.
That said, I live down South and am a big believer in the latent support for the game down here as I see it in how easy it is to get half a dozen non-RL people along to a big game held in London.
I took 6 friends to watch SF V Samoa last year, They enjoyed the game, and would have gone to a Tonga game again this year (if it was in London) as a) its England, and b) they enjoyed the game and the experience around it.
Will they travel 200 miles to the M62 for a RL game not a chance. Do they have any interest in League outside of England, no they don't, (no chance of them going to a bronocs game, although I might have got them to the 1895 final if London had got there. Will they watch a RL game on TV featuring england, no they won't, they will be either at a football game or will have sky sports news on. But I would have got them to go to a game if England had played a test in London.
You get one test a year in London, and you start to build up on those types of fans. Over time you never know they might start to want to watch club rugby League as well, but they sure as hell are not going to watch England on the TV if they have a union or football game happening at the same time featuring their clubs-
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Its not going to move the needle in terms of advancing International RL in the NH. As all the games are in the M62, its going to get very little attention outside even though its on the BBC.
If england RU make the SF, then there will be RU world cup games involving England happening around the same weekends as the 1st and 2nd test, we also have the cricket world cup going on as well, plus Premier League
If you wanted to get any interest in it you needed to have a game in London. So its not going to move any needles regardless of a 3-0 blow out win for England or a close 2-1 finale
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26 minutes ago, Mick the Miller said:
How can you finish 7th with 31 points already in the bag?
Batley win last 2
Fax win next week
London win next week
Sheffield win next week
That would have a table like
1) fev
2) tolouse
3) sheffield
4) London
5) Batley
6)Fax
7) Bradford
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19 minutes ago, John Drake said:
Discuss this weekend's non-televised Betfred Championship games here.
SATURDAY 16th SEPTEMBER
Newcastle Thunder v Barrow Raiders KO 15:00
Toulouse Olympique v Featherstone Rovers KO 17:00 (UK Time)SUNDAY 17th SEPTEMBER
Keighley Cougars v Halifax Panthers KO 15:00
London Broncos v Bradford Bulls KO 15:00 :- Draw
Swinton Lions v Whitehaven KO 15:00
Widnes Vikings v Sheffield Eagles KO 15:00All tight games apart from Keighley v Fax
Bradford to be 2 behind with 2 mins to play, get a Pen under the sticks and kick the 2 points in the knowledge that as Sheffield have beaten Widnes (news coming through via their fans), a draw + a win next week would eliminate Fax, and with Sheffield on 32, Sheffield have already made the playoff's.......
don't we all love a good conspiracy theory
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8 hours ago, Jparrish said:
I'd prefer NZ or Australia coming in 2024 personally. I think a PI nation coming 2 years in a row is a stretch commercialy and we'll probably see the series saturated in the M62 again.
Having said that at least Samoa could be marketed as a "revenge" tour and hopefully RFL have some bottle to host 1 game away from the north.
The people I took to the Semi-Final last year have pretty much forgotten RL even exists. There needed to be immediate follow up to keep the people who went to that Semi-Final engaged in the game, unfortuntaly that was missed.
You need to be playing an international game in London every year to build it up over time. RFL will never do this. Having one game in London every 3 or 4 years is pointless-
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53 minutes ago, The Blues Ox said:
But they both already know what they need to do to make the playoffs.
Sheffield just need 1/2 to make sure and Bradford need 2/2.
Or bradford realise they only need a draw to put them and Sheffield through at the expense of Fax, where if either team wins the loser goes out and Fax go through...
OK I'll get my coat, but that is a very possible scenario if both Bradford and Sheffield win next week, and Batley win last 2
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Well I am really pleased that we got to 6+ pages talking about things happening on the field, and for once not talking about off field antics
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14 minutes ago, Griff said:
What complicates it is the number of games involving two of the candidates. They can't both win.
I actually think 30 might be enough but I'm not going to waste my time going through all the possible options.
I don't think 30 will be enough.
London should beat keithley last game :- So thats 32
Fax should win both remaining games :- 31
Batley should beat newcastle :- so on 30
one of Sheffield or Bradford has to be on 31 seeing they play each other. So looking at that at least 5 teams should be on 31 or better
Fev
Tolouse
London
Fax
Bradford \ Sheffield
so means for a team other than Batley or Bradford to qualify on 30 (assuming results above) you would need
Batley to lose to York
Sheffield to lose to Widnes
London to beat Bradford
Bradford to beat or draw with Sheffield
Can't see all of the above 4 things happening TBH
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32 points 100% gets you in playoffs
31 poins might get you in playoffs, but 50/5030 points is possible, but needs a lot of other results to go your way
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Its also possible for Bradford to win one of the last 2 and still miss out on 31 to fax on points difference, if Batley win last 2 games
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4 minutes ago, tim2 said:
Bulls have London and Sheffield away. Right now they could lose both which could meanmissing the play-offs altogether. This league is completely unpredictable between 2nd position (unless TO are in France) and 13th.
Eagles lost twice to Whitehaven, once to Swinton. It's probably kept Whitehaven up and given Swinton half a chance.
Speculation I know, but a narrow win by Swinton over Haven, and a narrow loss for Keighley against Fax could leave all 3 on 16 points with very little points difference between all of them. All three have hard games in the final week.
3rd place is still in the Eagles' hands but the chances of winning 3 in a row to make that happen this season is slim. Looks like London 3rd on current form.
So looking at what's left
I expect Sheffield to Beat widnes next week, so will be safe in playoffs on 32 min
I expect London to beat Keighley last week of season so also 32 min
I expect Batley to beat newcastle so to be on 30 min
I expect Fax to win remaining games so will be on 31
So its all on the 2 bradford games, they could end up on 33 and 3rd place, or on 29 and miss out. Has the championship ever been this close in the last 2 weeks-
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Looking tight....
Bradford have Sheffield and London to play.... They lose both, could miss the playoff's on 29 points, seeing fax have pretty easy run in, and Batley just need to win one of last 2
Also looks like Swinton have a chance of staying up, but have to beat Haven next week, as I don't see Keighley winning again this season
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Can he afford to fund a full time team and also PL. After all to pay for PL he made London go Part time?
Rhodri Jones on the growth of international Rugby League
in The General Rugby League Forum
Posted
Only Soccer is unique in that the international game and the club game are both strong and both can stand independent of each other.
In all other sports either the Clubs Lead and Nations are secondary (NFL, NBA, RL, Aussie Rules etc)
Or Nations lead, and clubs follow (RU, Cricket, Athletics etc)
In RL its the clubs that call the tune, so the International game will alwasy be secondary,
I'm not saying that this is a good or bad thing, but we have to accept that at this time clubs will always get priority over internationals, all you have to look at is how the NRL protect Origin