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Ray Cashmere

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Posts posted by Ray Cashmere

  1. That article is just an overview of what was said at the fans forum. I certainly didn't take that quote literally having been there, it's just how Paul King seems to get his message across.

    2 minutes ago, Hull Kingston Bronco said:

    What’s more depressing in here is the reference to not being able to sell 1,000 season tickets…. Really? 😳😳😳

     

  2. 40 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

    Who cares how much money they earn, in 10-15 years they'll still be spending it on a 1st team packed with non-french players, they'll still bring no fans to any British games and the national team will still be as poor as ever.

    So back to my original point, aside from them currently being financially stable what benefit do they actually bring to SL ?

    We don't have a full-time professional competition if clubs don't generate commercial revenue. 

    All it does is make it increasingly clear that your actual point is 'I don't like Catalans' rather than 'what do they actually bring to SL?'

    That's fine. You don't have to. Just say it rather than dressing it up as something else.

     

    • Like 6
  3. 22 hours ago, Saint Toppy said:

    Nobody is asking them to change history, just fulfill their promises and justify why they were parachuted straight into SL instead of earning their place like everyone else.

    If all we wanted was 'another team trying to win SL' then they could have put any team straight into SL. Why choose a french team over say a Cumbrian team, after all Cumbria has a long history of producing good quality SL players, they have strong amateur clubs, loyal & passionate fans etc. Imagine what a Cumbrian club could have achieved had they been parachuted in and granted 3 years exemption from relegation.

    Is SL better off by having Catalans in than having a Cumbrian SL team ?

    This is your most absurd reasoning yet.

    By whatever metric you choose, Catalans are now one of the big clubs capable of winning Super League.

    Plenty of clubs have had the time in the competition to be one: Salford, Castleford, Wakefield

    Plenty of clubs have had the resources to do so and not managed it: Hull FC, Huddersfield, Leigh

    None of these clubs have been able to combine consistent off-field revenue, on-field competitiveness, attendances and attracting star players.

    There is nothing to suggest the Cumbrian clubs could. That isn't to say they don't bring a lot to rugby league. They do, like the above clubs I've highlighted (one of which being my own), but you can't simultaneously want northern hemisphere RL/ Super League to grow and be critical of a club that has established itself as a big club. 

    • Like 3
  4. 2 hours ago, Exiled Wiganer said:

    I am really really struggling to follow that line of reasoning. There is precisely no evidence that the NRL will allow any end of season games beyond the barest minimum token matches. 

    The NRL’s success, and I suspect this TV deal has reinforced that, will be at the expense of the international game. 

    That said, we are clearly already the biggest football in the region, by a distance, and the potential to cherry pick all the best athletes from Oz, PNG, Tonga, Fiji, Samoa and a lot of the best from NZ is clearly going to increase. Let’s face it, if you could back yourself to play the best code on the planet and be well paid for the privilege, anybody backing themselves would take it. And for those more limited/less ambitious, there will always be union and AFL. 

    Maybe not, but there are consequences to that:

    Who is going to fund the work of the ARLC, NZRL and their southern hemisphere counterparts? It may be the NRL, but that's a lot of cost and resource. 

    Will players accept being barred from playing for their country? I'd argue many of the players who switched allegiances to the Tier 2 nations are pretty invested in representing their heritage.

     

    The NRL can do as it wants but the reality is they won't expand their player pool if the sport has zero international presence/visibility. 

     

    • Like 2
  5. Whilst this may not be good news for international rugby league as a whole, I see it as a positive for our international calendar.

    The chance of England playing a southern hemisphere side mid-season is nil anyway. The obvious move is to invest long term in mid-season England internationals against France and Wales (and dare I say the combined nations if necessary) whilst negotiating annual southern hemisphere series (home or away) with nations who will be more incentivised to seize the one window of opportunity they get each year. 

    The NRL shunning mid-season internationals should only provide more clarity and structure to our international schedule, not less.

    • Like 2
  6. 18 hours ago, Charlie said:

    I’d definitely have ormondroyd and luckley in over Johnson and Burke, otherwise I’d go with something very similar. Still believe we need another prop hopefully we can get one but we will see. Also be interesting to see we’re lafai fits in.

    I like Luckley a lot tbf and if he kicks on again he will definitely be in the 17.

    I think we all want an extra prop but that isn't sounding likely. If Akauola can deliver then we'll be fine but that remains to be seen.

    • Like 2
  7. 18 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:

    Is this not effectively a hard split between full-time and part-time clubs? Even if it’s not immediate it seems to me inevitable. 

    It may be, but if that is the plan then it'd be nice if the powers that be can let everyone know so we can stop taking the sport seriously and move on to other things.

    10 full-time clubs, 8 along 1 stretch of motorway, is not even worth bothering with. 

    All it will achieve is sending a clear message to the backers behind Newcastle, York and the like that their investment and ambition is not welcome in a sport like rugby league.

  8. 9 minutes ago, Whippet13 said:

    No Cumbrian team either, despite all 3 being in the Championship for 2022.

    This is the problem. How do we grow the game if all the good work being done at Barrow,  Crusaders, Sheffield & Midlands Hurricanes (to name a few) gets shut down? 

    This can only work if there is:

    a) A clear plan to expand SL1 and SL2 when these clubs meet franchise requirements  

    b) A requirement that all SL2 clubs have a full time professional environment and

    c) An overhaul of the rules on player recruitment so promoted SL2 clubs are able to compete in SL1

    If all 3 of these aren't met then this is merely a rebrand of the championship in an attempt to justify condensing Super League even further.

    • Like 6
  9. 17 hours ago, ATLANTISMAN said:

    Well Super League 1/2 with 10 teams looks like its NAILED ON:)

    Just a question on who those 10 will be initially.

    The London Broncos maybe dodging a bullet with the signings they have made this year as the Wimbledon move has all the hallmarks of getting the nod.

    I can see 

    LEEDS RHINOS

    WIGAN WARRIORS

    ST HELENS 

    WARRINGTON WOLVES 

    CATALAN DRAGONS 

    TOULOUSE

    HULL FC 

    HULL KINGSTON ROVERS 

    Nailed on 

     

    And take your pick from the rest I would not be surprised if the Broncos though already have the green light 100% for SL2 and maybe even SL1 SKY are driving this and I am certain they will get what they want.

     

    Take your pick for SL2 10 clubs 

    1 up and 1 down from SL2 to the Championship 2023 onwards.

     

    P

     

     

    Not sure where you've heard this from but the Salford board intimated that they didn't expect any restructure to take place until the 2024 season (caveated with something along the lines of 'but this is The RFL we're speaking about').

    If they do proceed with Super League 1 and 2 then I really do fear for the worst. 

    • Like 2
  10. 2 hours ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

    Skybet first up with betting for the 2022 Championship (regular season)...

    Featherstone Rovers 6/5

    Leigh Centurions 2/1

    Halifax Panthers 10/1

    York City Knights 12/1

    Bradford Bulls 14/1

    Newcastle Thunder 16/1

    Widnes Vikings 20/1

    London Broncos 25/1

    Batley Bulldogs 40/1

    Whitehaven RLFC 66/1

    Dewsbury Rams 80/1

    Barrow Raiders 100/1

    Sheffield Eagles 125/1

    Workington Town 150/1

    Initial thoughts...really it's too early to accurately state Fev and Leigh's odds until we know how many more each club have to add, and who. As things stand, Fax and York should probably be a shade closer to them in the betting...but equally signings in the next couple of months could have the inverse impact and see one or other of the top 2 quoted go odds on.

    Otherwise, there's no way London should be shorter than Batley, that's the really obvious error.

    There is no way a FT setup should be 16/1 whether you approve of Thunder's recruitment or not.

    Featherstone are extremely short as, to my mind, their squad is notably weaker than last season. Still should be one of the favourites mind.

    • Like 1
  11. 1 hour ago, M j M said:

    It wouldn't surprise me though. Some of these owners have got very big loans to their clubs to cover years of financial losses (eg Ken Davy £17m, Ian Lenagan £6m etc). Most owners do it for the love of their clubs but the opportunity to get some of their cash back must still be tempting.

    I understand the concern and I'm not saying it is impossible by any means but I don't see where the return on investment is for a potential investor/equity partner in doing this. 

    I only see clubs getting money for infrastructure which may grow, directly or indirectly, the value of the competition.  Even then it is more likely to be in the form of a loan to protect return on investment.

  12. 22 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:

    Where and on what will the 100 million go ?

    My guess would be: 

    - A funding facility to enable clubs to bid for infrastructure upgrades

    -  Rapidly scaling up OURLeague as a streaming service 

    - Staffing costs (especially in the commercial & marketing departments)

    - Strategic investment in growth sectors (women's & wheelchair competitions/ established non-heartlands clubs)

     

    I'd be surprised if licencing didn't feature as part of this. 

    • Like 1
  13. 1 hour ago, sweaty craiq said:

    IMO your board rolled the dice, failed the rent and spent on the team to stay up again knowing Leigh would be the only team to finish above

    You're entitled to that opinion but it's completely detached from the reality which has been discussed in detail over the last 22 pages of this thread. 

    I've no wish to go over that again. 

    • Like 8
  14. 58 minutes ago, The storm said:

    Its nothing to do with bricks and mortar. 

     

    Its about taking a stake in future earnings or revenue 

    So say the next sky TV deal ciuld be worth say 30 million a year over 5 years 

    The venture vultures would take 50 million of that 5 year deal and in effect they would be in a position to regain all of the 100 million in 15 to 20 years 

     

    And venture capital deal should be around 250 million 

    I'm sorry but you're absolutely miles off. You can't just extrapolate the current TV deal over 20 years and assume that Sky will somehow be compelled to pay you the same. The recent re-negotiation proves exactly that. No one is investing £100 million on the hope that that happens. 

     

     

  15. 1 minute ago, gingerjon said:

    You don't need to grow the asset. Obviously, that's the nicest and fairest way, and if they cared about rugby league it's what they would do so we all hope that that would be their direction. But alternatives exist that are less pleasant. Their only requirement is to make money for themselves. If, at the end of the day, they reason that that could only be achieved by selling all of the assets of British rugby league to the RFU (this is an extreme and unserious suggestion) then that would be the direction they would go in.

    That would require the RFL to have £100m+ worth of bricks and mortar assets which I'm pretty confident it doesn't have.

    Most of the 'value' currently derives from Super League as a commercial entity (insert joke here). I don't see anything contained within that which the RFU would give a second look at. That's *before* you take into account the reputational considerations for all the parties involved...

    If, as Hetherington seems to suggest, a new commercial subsidiary will be created under the RFL of which said unnamed investor will have a controlling stake of, they will need to drive the value of TV rights, the sponsorship portfolio and their IP to get a return on investment.

    • Like 1
  16. 39 minutes ago, The storm said:

    Not at all

     

    They can do nothing and just take a third of the sky TV deal for the next fourty years  

    Maybe a third of everything 

    So 100 million is like a loan on future earnings 

    I must have missed the press release stating the new TV deal was a 40 year extension...

    You don't last long in private equity if you don't grow the asset. The detail will be interesting but if this is being led by the new strategic working group then I'm very hopeful.

  17. 8 minutes ago, The storm said:

    I thought about putting salford as a club on the up

    Really good squad for 2022

    Great new pathways 

    Some really good peopke involved in the club 

     

    If the ground gets sorted then I'd agree.

    I get why people are tipping us for relegation as we were very poor last season but our recruitment has been very good once again and I'm struggling to pick many holes in the squad.

    • Like 1
  18. 1 minute ago, Davo5 said:

    Sounds more promising,let’s hope those plans don’t follow the Wakefield/Cas format of an annual artist’s impression that is quickly filed under “fooled the league” again.

    And hopefully Salford don’t heed our resident forum carpet salesman & install a plastic pitch,

    I can only judge the existing board on their track record so far and that track record is one of competence, realism and sustainable ambition.

    If we can get the move over the line and increase the capacity to at least 6,500 I'll be very optimistic about the direction we're heading. 

    • Like 6
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