Ray Cashmere
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Posts posted by Ray Cashmere
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45 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:
5K filled every week would be great but here is the link to the stadium/facilities The-Peninsula-Stadium-Guide.pdf (salfordcityfc.co.uk) Take a minute to look at the ground and the parking sections.
Parking will be a nightmare, and as far as I can see has not been considered - but that just affects matchday fans!!!!
Look at the shallow seating/terrace and tell me what the commentary position will be for Sky or indeed any decent viewing cameras?
All these things were discussed at the fans forum
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5 minutes ago, Bearman said:
Thanks for the responses and comments.
As I have commentators previously we HAD to change. Continuing as we were doing it would have been near impossible to carry on next year.
The reduction of central funding and not having any opportunity to generate income meant that the rental cost of the BOA would have swallowed up all our finances.
Those of you know Coventry will know that there is nowhere to play.
Broadstreet was never an option. Our experiences there were less than pleasant. The City council were not able to help ( see the Sky Blues experience).
So we came up with a cunning plan!
The plan was to rebrand and and and try grow to a bigger market. Clearly even though Coventry is a big city clearly there is a massive one next door. Crucially the council there have been very helpful and there is an opportunity to move to a facility that will give us a place to get money on matchdays.
Stage 1 was to try and float the concept in the market place. The idea was floated and we were very lucky that we were introduced to a Rugby League fan who is a very successful businessman. Mike Lomax, who liked what he saw and has the drive and imagination to help us to kick on.
Alan Robinson and I started the Bears 23 years and we have always tried to find to ways to move forward.
I do not mind admitting that it was looking pretty bleak. In fact as the last season was unfolding and we were doing ok on the pitch both of us were thinking the worst.
The catalyst was on the way to an away game in the bus we both expressed our darkest thoughts and it was not nice. After the game on the way back, something happened. I turned to Alan to say we just can't let it go like that, before I could speak he said " I'm not just going to go without trying. " I grinned and "said nor me".
The Hurricanes and a move to Birmingham ideas had been thought about for some time and we had the germs of ideas of a plan and that became the strategy.
So as I have said before it wasn't an easy decision and yet it was... as there was no way could have survived without a radical move.
We have the ppeople, the ideas and the will to make a success of this. I know we will have a lot of people hope we will succede.
I listened to the podcast and enjoyed it. I don't expect any indication on numbers etc but can you give us an idea of the level of investment by Mike Lomas? Is it just sufficient to stabilise the club or will it also provide extra funds for the playing squad? Can you accelerate plans for investment in club infrastructure eg more development officers/full time staff?
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2 hours ago, ATLANTISMAN said:
I agree come on Toulouse make a bid
Paul
Toulouse have to be targeting any French player who is not making the Catalans 17 on a regular basis. There are 3 or 4 there who are comfortably Super League quality and would give them a massive chance of staying up. Not to mention the benefits for the national team heading into the world cup.
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3 minutes ago, M j M said:
It seems to be mostly Wigan fans who miss the old days of just outspending everyone else. (Although that club's problems are much wider and include apparently disastrous salary cap management).
Does anyone know who Wigan's second marquee is after Bateman? Do they even have one?
I'd guess not considering the deal they supposedly offered Williams which suggests that their ability to spend is a bigger concern than restrictions imposed upon their spending.
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24 minutes ago, Lowdesert said:
Gossip Tyrone May in talks with Catalans.
You'd have thought they'd have learnt from Folau but evidently not.
Not sure how this helps Mourgue or Laguerre in their quest for game time either. Both should be playing Super League every week in my opinion.
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28 minutes ago, Dunbar said:
I think Welsby is an outstanding talent. There is something about him that just seems to make big plays happen.
If the World Cup were happening now then I would have Sam Tomkins as full back (and captain) in a heartbeat, but if Welsby has an outstanding season at full back for Saints next year then I would absolutely support his inclusion, I want to see the ambition, fearlessness and energy of youth in the England team.
If we get to see a future England team with Welsby at full back and Pryce and Dodd in the halves then I think we are in for a good ride.
Providing Tomkins stays fit and maintains his form I think Welsby has to be used as a 14 next year. His versatility and ability would give us a huge amount of options from the bench dependent upon the nature of the game.
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1 hour ago, OriginalMrC said:
This sounds really positive. Alexander Stadium would be a very ambitious move so if that is the sign of where the club is heading then this could be a huge positive for the sport.
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3 hours ago, Saint Toppy said:
Even if all those young halves have great seasons its a massive gamble to play both together.
I do think Dodd, Lewis & Pryce have massive potential and their first priority is to cement their places as staring halves for their respective clubs. I know Dodd is being given the No 7 shirt at Saints next year and he also has the benefit of playing along-side Lomax every week who he could well be partnering for England, so maybe Dodd is slightly less of a gamble as a starter if Lomax is the 6. But we're getting ahead of ourselves, there's a long season ahead and one of the main issues usually with young players is playing consistently well every week.
I like Dodd and i'm glad he's going to be Saints starting SH next year as I think he offers far more than Fages did, but if i'm honest of the 3 youngsters mentioned I think Pryce is the real standout. Even in his limited game time so far he looks to have that real X-Factor (just like his dad).
Agreed, we need to be realistic with these youngsters as talented as they are.
The conundrum with Pryce is that he has stated publicly that he sees himself as a fullback. I'd be surprised if he starts there (or in the halves) for Huddersfield next season but it would make a brilliant narrative (if we were capable as a sport of building them) to have Welsby and Pryce as the young pretenders to Tomkins' throne.
For those reasons, I do think Dodd has the clearest path into the England side.
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12 minutes ago, Dave T said:
Spot on and I made a similar point earlier in the thread.
I tend to agree with Damien on the salary cap. I've been reluctant to see too many increases as I'm not convinced the game can afford it and I'm not a fan of the rich backer model of Union, but I think we maybe need to loosen the reigns on the bigger clubs who can afford more now.
I think the salary cap is working too much for the smaller clubs nowadays rather than the bigger clubs and the wider game. But, when we see some top clubs still needing to have owners pump hundreds of thousands in per year to balance the books I'm not sure it'll happen.
I completely agree with the sentiment that we should not be holding back the big clubs but I just don't think there are enough big clubs for a salary cap rise to have an impact.
I've made this point elsewhere: how many clubs are using the full cap and 2 marquees? Who is knocking on the door arguing the salary cap is holding them back? I think many of the 'bigger' clubs are quite content knowing they can restrict their expenditure to a certain amount that enables them to compete every year.
Super League desperately needs more Catalans to push the traditional big clubs to drive up their standards. If we can achieve that, then a raised salary cap will make much more sense.
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I think a lot of posters are addressing this from the wrong direction.
People can discuss the ground and attendances being too small for Super League, and suggest we should effectively accept our fate and relegate ourselves. But why?
Super League *should* be strong enough to make a club with crowds of less than 5,000 and restricted matchday revenue uncompetitive resulting in their relegation. However, the stark reality is that there are not enough big clubs in Super League for this to be the case.
The aim has to be to create more 'big' clubs. Not make the smaller clubs even smaller. Catalans have been fantastic for the game as they have created another 'big' club.
I'm fully supportive of clubs like Toulouse (and potentially York and Newcastle) overtaking us due to more money, better infrastructure etc. But it is the job of Super League and The RFL, along with these clubs, to make that happen. Whether that be through the re-introduction of licencing, relegation exemptions or another method.
Salford moving to a stadium where we will have greater financial & commercial control as well as investing sustainably in the player pathway programme I have mentioned previously in this thread is not the cause of Super League's problems. The fact that we can now do this after being so poorly ran for over a decade is a symptom of how fragile, unambitious and lacking in strategy the game is.
Gary Hetherington has made the same point today. The sooner we focus on building more 'big' clubs over kicking the smaller clubs, the sooner Super League will begin to resemble its name.
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2 hours ago, Kirmonds pouch said:
If I were Salford I'd go the full way, re-brand as Manchester and try and get a gig here at the Manchester City Academy stadium, Academy!!!!
I know it's not in Salford but then what is these days and of course it may not be available or far too expensive, I don't even know who owns it, is it the council or the club?. However it's modern, central to Manchester, well served by public transport and parking. It holds 7,000, perfect for a club like Salford.
I know nothing about Manchester politics but is there any reason this couldn't happen, no sarcasm please, I'm just wondering?
As a fellow fan put it so eloquently on Tuesday: "You can right off if you think I'm going to watch us at City's ground".
Agree or disagree with the sentiment all you like but, when there is a large mutual support between MUFC and Salford, it is a non-starter.
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8 minutes ago, dboy said:
No.
You won't own the ground.
That's not pedantry.
It's a fact.
F.A.C.T.
Did Stuart Littler rob your lunch money as a kid or something?
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3 hours ago, Tonka said:
To be fair to Ray he quite deliberately said "full commercial control" in his original post. When he says "effectively, yes" on the issue of legal ownership, he's not trying to suggest that leasehold = legal ownership of the title. We all know, however, that leasehold ownership is akin to full ownership if you can treat the asset as yours, and that's all he's saying. The length of the lease will be important (21 years is different to 100, for example), as will whether Salford as leaseholder is free to develop the seating capacity or make any other changes to enhance the stadium.
I just want to wish good luck to Ray, he comes across as pragmatic and on top of the issues.
Thanks, I appreciate it.
My issue is when people try and use things like this as a stick to beat Salford with such is their desperation to attack clubs like us.
Criticise our crowds. Criticise our poor performances on the pitch. Criticise the Koukash era. We're a long way away from where we should and need to be. Just don't try and manufacture contrived arguments over things which are positive and promising.
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4 hours ago, dboy said:
The point, explicit - not wide, is that you were asked directly "would Salford own the ground?"
You said yes, when the answer is no.
Just a matter of honesty, truthfulness and accuracy
If the lease is as little as 21 years, you wouldn't waste money painting the walls, never mind doing floodlights, stands and corporate upgrades.
It's a matter of pedantry.
Unless we were planning on having an open top bus parade to celebrate the official copies of title stating Salford Red Devils as possessing the freehold then the practical and commercial implications of a having a long-lease instead are nil.
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13 minutes ago, ShropshireBull said:
Have you guys looked into linking up with Salford Uní to establish another pathway and grow the brand.
Our university partnerships and player pathway scheme were discussed in depth tonight:
- We have an existing partnership with Salford University and are also working with UoM and Manchester Met
- 3 players who have graduated from our partnership with Wales Rugby League and will be playing in our reserves this upcoming season are to begin scholarships with UCLAN managed around their rugby. Our new reserves coach works at UCLAN and is developing this relationship further.
- We now have 3 player pathway partnership: Wales RL, Ipswich Jets & Ghana RL. The latter is longer-term but the aim is to bring players from all 3 into our player pathway and provide opportunities for them to study with Eccles College/UCLAN/Salford Uni and develop into potential Super League players.
- We now have 84 partner schools in GM, the vast majority having not played rugby league before
- We are working on pathways for ethnic minorities similar to the RFL's Tackle It Academy
- We have just launched the REDS programme for 14-17 year olds identified as having potential to come and train with the club with the potential of entering our pathway.
I get it's fashionable to clobber Salford for holding the sport back (understandably so given our recent history) but the present and future look very encouraging so long as the stadium issue is resolved.
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13 minutes ago, dboy said:
So "no" then.
There's no "effectively" about it.
A lease is not ownership.
I have no idea what wider point you're trying to make here but the differences between long-term leasehold and freehold are immaterial in this context.
What matters is who has effective control over the assets of the property. That would be Salford.
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3 minutes ago, Henson Park Old Firm said:
But would they own the ground?
Effectively yes as it would be a long term leasehold (as Salford City have now) between 21 and 100 years with full control over the stadium's commerciality.
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It is effectively Moor Lane or nothing.
The good news:
- due diligence suggests it is a feasible solution
- The club are meeting with architects/builders imminently to discuss the possibility of expanding the capacity to 6.5k/8k (we can build up, just not out)
- We would have full commercial control over the stadium in terms of corporate hospitality & executive boxes (yes, they exist), sponsorship (good news considering our commercial revenue has doubled since February) and food & beverage
Obstacles remaining:
- Cost of expanding the stadium (all depends what quotes we are given)
- Training base & HQ
- Car parking (park & ride logistics already thought through and other local parking solutions are being discussed with the relevant parties)
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3 hours ago, The Blues Ox said:
Probably means Keyes and Joufrett to be fair.
Yes.
I think O'Hagan will be the best half in the comp provided he can keep himself fit but that remains to be seen.
Nu Brown is a big loss for Fev and I'm not sold on Leigh or Thunder's lot. As I say, Fax *may* have the best halves pairing in the comp. I'm not saying it's clear cut.
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51 minutes ago, Man of Kent said:
The usual off-season stuff. Here goes.
FB Tomkins
W Johnstone
C Young
C Farnworth
W Makinson
SO Lomax
SH Williams
P Walmsley
H Clark
P Thompson
SR Whitehead
SR Bateman
LF KnowlesInterchange
Burgess
Oledzki
Sutton
WelsbyDecent side that could probably beat anyone bar Australia. Lack true world class in the backs compared to the likes of Trbojevic, Tedesco, Cleary et al.
Don't think you're far off here barring the outside backs. Only see Tom Davies cementing his place off the back of another strong year with Catalans and Newman will be taking 1 of the centre spots injury permitting.
Welsby absolutely has to be, at the very least, a utility interchange.
Don't think there are many other potential bolters. Likely to be just too soon for Pryce, Dodd, Pearce-Paul and Smithies but who knows...
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Leigh, Newcastle, York, Featherstone and Halifax all look likely to be assembling squads capable of winning promotion.
Feel York have a really good chance if they can keep O'Hagan, Brinning and Pauli fit all season; Newcastle's pack looks very strong on paper; I like Leigh's focus on younger players but the jury is out until the new coach is appointed; Fev have the quality in the backs and Fax might have the best halves pairing in the comp.
It really should be a brilliant season.
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5 hours ago, sweaty craiq said:
Ray there are that many add ons to the salary cap that the top clubs end up with a wage bill double or more the bottom ones. Marquee player, club grown, new talent, returning talent, prize money, Intl bonus's, educational fees and Academy/reserves salary's.
Then you have the attraction of signing for a top club which means the bottom clubs have to offer more for the same player.
Whilst in theory you're right it isn't that simple.
Marquee- about 4 clubs (to my knowledge) currently use both spots so that isn't a significant impediment.
Club grown- we need a Cat 1 academy first which the club is rightly prioritising but, even so, it is a fact of life the best local talent will always go to Wigan or Saints.
New talent/returning talent- rarely gets used, let alone successfully
International bonuses- what internationals?
This isn't me arguing that money doesn't matter. Funnily enough, I don't expect Salford to ever trouble the top 5 places for this exact reason. But, in a salary-capped sport where 5/6 clubs are spending the same level on salaries, it is not money that makes the difference between these clubs. I'm surprised this is so controversial.
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I just think it is an over-simplification. Wigan, Warrington, Saints, Catalans and Leeds (and maybe even Huddersfield with Davy's recent spending) are all on a level playing field under the salary cap.
Saints have dominated the last 3 seasons because they have been far and away the best club holistically speaking. Wigan can have the exact same money to spend but when half their squad are back rowers, they have 1 senior centre and no halfback that would start for any of the aforementioned clubs I can say quite confidently that they won't be lifting Super League next season.
The structure, culture and organisation of a Super League club are, for me, the most important factors in determining success. Finances will always restrict a Salford from consistently competing with the above but there are still plenty of teams competing on exactly the same terms economically who are very far apart on the rugby pitch.
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Good thread to share this:
After the events of the last week its great to see what expansion can look like when done well. Investment in the grassroots and community clubs should eventually have an impact on Thunder's gates. I really hope they reach Super League in the next few years with a couple of geordies in each matchday squad.
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Salford to move to Moor Lane?
in The General Rugby League Forum
Posted · Edited by Ray Cashmere
Ground- upgrades to floodlights & TV Gantry (SL has higher standards than EFL) and raised advertising hoardings. Due diligence suggests v feasible/affordable. Discussions ongoing with architects/construction sector about increasing capacity to between 6.5k and 8k (can build up, not out) subject to planning permission (PP not expected to be major obstacle, more dependent on what we are quoted for the work).
Car parking: Ample parking for disabled supporters but recognition of the general problem. Discussions ongoing with several local parties (presumably schools/the council) about parking opportunities in the immediate vicinity. Discussions with local junior clubs and others about park and ride schemes.