Ray Cashmere
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Posts posted by Ray Cashmere
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22 hours ago, Davo5 said:
Well with 8-9 K attendances they might have been able to keep up with their rent & wouldn’t be facing eviction.
You can't be evicted from a premises you are no longer contracted to reside in; as will be the case in 2023 which is the date all parties seem to agree will be the date Sale/Salford City complete & we vacate...
22 hours ago, Davo5 said:What makes you think Salford’s attendances will increase by moving to a tiny,stadium with poor facilities ?
Its size will hardly improve the TV product no matter how many are in attendance,it will still look like an amateur ground hardly befitting the top level of RL in the Northern hemisphere.
Moor Lane is in a better geographical location within the Salford area than the AJ Bell in terms of historical fanbase. Moor Lane may give us the opportunity to create and retain matchday revenue outside of ticket sales which AJ Bell does not. I believe the matchday experience will be better as well on account of it not being a soulless identikit stadium that smells of sewerage.
That does not mean it is an aspirational move nor is it a magic bullet for attendances. It is the clubs responsibility (and Salford's more fairweather fans) to increase attendances. Various owners have failed to realise the corporate and commercial potential of playing at the AJ Bell in terms of proximity to Trafford Park, MediaCity & Manchester City Centre. This will undoubtedly be harder at Moor Lane. However, it is a sector the whole sport fails to successfully engage with.
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2 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:
I just think too much blame is been attributed the running of SRD and not enough consideration offered to the pretty unique position they find themselves in. Not one but two far wealthier entities are proposing to outright purchase the stadium. Even if SRD were getting 7k a game and finances were historically better, you still don't think the squeeze from these other 2 clubs would see them in the same position? I believe it would.
But hunsletgreenandgold; money doesn't matter in the purchase of a stadium when you can just 'try harder'. Didn't you know!
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This is an open invitation to anyone who thinks all Salford need to do is 'try harder', 'act like a big club' or 'just get 9k through your gates' in order to purchase the AJ Bell to come and participate in the fans forum on 4th November to impart your pearls of wisdom on the directors and match-going fans.
I won't hold my breath.
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2 minutes ago, Johnoco said:
It might seem harsh but I've nothing against Salford at all. I want them to do well. But is everything not their fault? I'd suggest a huge chunk of the situation they are in is down to them and them alone.
Who though? The previous owners (The Wilkinson family/Marwan Koukash)? The current administration (Paul King etc)? The employees? The fans? The community?
You can't just dumb down what is an incredibly complex situation to get an easy answer. There is plenty of blame to go around for the position we are in amongst plenty of different people and stakeholders. I have neither the time nor the interest to go down that rabbit hole though so if you want to pin it all on 'the club' as if it's this homogenous entity then feel free.
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4 minutes ago, Damien said:
Sale have wanted to buy the stadium for years. Nothing new there. The Council have always refused to sell though, until seemingly now. Salford failing to pay rent and debts has contributed massively to the stadium failing and not turning a profit. That is undeniable. Now some Salford fans may like to wash their hands and pretend the two aren't linked but it is precisely the actions of Salford over the years that have led to the weak position they now find themselves in.
1) It has never been solely the council's decision. The AJ Bell is owned by CosCos which is a joint venture between Salford Council AND Peel Holdings. Whilst Salford Council do have a level of accountability with the local community, Peel Holdings do not. Neither you nor I know the exact nature of that dynamic but, in my opinion, it was destined to fail.
2) Sale did previously express an interest in buying the AJ Bell in 2016/17 but it wasn't feasible for several reasons: a) our tenancy agreement was secured until 2023, b) Plan A was still to build a ground IN Sale (which has subsequently become unfeasible), c) Salford Council could not be seen to sell SRD out to an-out-of-town Sale Sharks.
3) The role of Salford City and the Class of 92 has made a material impact upon the legitimacy of Sale's bid as Salford Council can now argue they are continuing to honour the primary purpose of the stadium i.e. as a stadium for the City of Salford. Further, our tenancy will have expired by the time of purchase making it more attractive proposition
4) Our move to the AJ Bell has been a car crash. Unrealistic financial projections by all stakeholders, uncompleted infrastructure and a total lack of fan engagement have all contributed to where we are now. It has been a case study in how not to move grounds. The idea that match going fans and the current ownership are somehow responsible is detached from reality.
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48 minutes ago, Johnoco said:
The difference is those clubs aren't being booted out of their stadium.
I didn't say they would be loaded if they had a better attendance, I said they would not be in such a vulnerable position. Maybe they would be seen as the preferred partner if they did have bigger crowds? Maybe they'd be a more attractive proposition for any potential business looking to invest in a sports club.
It's all connected, perception can be everything. And if the perception is of Salford being a failing club leaving behind a string of unpaid debts, then they don't have a strong bargaining hand.
I wish it was different, I'd love to see Salford locking them out every week.
Perception doesn't fund the purchase of stadiums. Brian Kennedy (the Sale Sharks owner worth c.£275m), the Class of 92 and Peter Lim do. If you want to continue engaging in ifs, buts and maybes then be my guest but I'd rather deal with reality.
Any club who is a tenant in their stadium is subject to the conditions set by their landlord. Ask Coventry City and Wigan Warriors fans.
Nowhere am I defending our attendances. I'm merely stating that they're immaterial to the fact a billionaire, his football mates and a Sunday Times Richlist rugby union owner want to buy our ground and, as tenants, it's out of our hands. Unless you can point out any inaccuracies in the above I really don't know what you're arguing about.
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1 hour ago, Johnoco said:
Well do you think Salford would be in such a vulnerable position if they had an average attendance of 8-9K? (Which isn't sensational in itself but much better than 3-4K )
The crowds are definitely the issue.
You're putting words in my mouth. I referenced our poor attendances 4 posts above if you could be bothered reading. I merely stated attendances aren't the driving force behind us leaving.
It is highly unlikely crowds of 8-9k would have a material impact on our capacity to buy the AJ Bell. The sort of capital required for such an investment is only possible through private equity (more likely a benefactor) in rugby league. We don't have one. Salford City & Sale Sharks do and intend to buy the AJ Bell.
Even Super League clubs who do have the attendances and/or private investment (Wigan, Hull, Huddersfield) cannot afford their own stadium. Let's not pretend this isn't a wider issue.
Super League does need clubs with better funding, attendances and infrastructure than what we currently have but, let's face it, we're far from unique in that sense. I've no issue engaging in those issues but there are a million other threads on here to do with that.
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Poor crowds aren't 'driving' the move. Salford City & Sale Sharks possessing both the willingness and financial means to buy the AJ Bell is what is driving the move.
This isn't about 'looking for' positives either. I'm well aware that a move to Moor Lane will provide serious challenges as well as opportunities. The next Fans' Forum on 4th November will hopefully add some clarity as to what these challenges and opportunities specifically are.
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1 hour ago, Dave T said:
It rather misses the point of the issues tbh. The issue is the 4,000 part.
I agree. But the point of this thread is Salford's move to Moor Lane; not Salford's poor attendances. The other poster believed it was our potential move to Moor Lane that was the issue; not our poor attendances.
We'd contribute much more to Super League with 5,000 every week at Moor Lane than 4,000 at the AJ Bell. The size of the ground is irrelevant unless and until it is full every week. What matters is the matchday experience, TV product and the opportunity to create and retain our own revenue outside of ticket sales.
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Do you genuinely believe 4,000 at the AJ Bell provides a better matchday experience and TV product than 4,000 at Moor Lane?
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2 hours ago, Scubby said:
I dont have a vested interest I don't even support a club. I can just see how the game is dumbing down to the point that a toy town stadium is now suitable for SL. It is not Salford's fault.
I dont have to go I can see all the photos and videos I need of Moor Lane. It us a shoe box stadium with a identikit stands. I've also been to Dewsbury which is also nice and tiny. Unfortunately that is the point. No one will be promoting Dewsbury any time soon.
All I needed to know.
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2 hours ago, Scubby said:
I believe they also told a couple of Championship clubs in this year's play offs that they couldn't be promoted (Whitehaven was one).
What is the difference between the Rec Ground and Moor Lane?
Genuine question: have you been to the Peninsula Stadium since the last refurbishments were completed?
I'm absolutely fine having a discussion about crowds, what we bring to SL etc but at least make sure you have something beyond preconceptions and a vested interest.
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11 minutes ago, Hvy wg said:
Yes but I'll be surprised if we get anything out of this halfback pair. Too complacent. Youre getting beaten and they throw the same set again and again.
Rouge to me looked like he was trying to avoid injury so as to be involved next week.
Few decent tries but defensively v poor and way too many errors . Expected more tbh.
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Anyone got team numbers for St. Esteve?
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Is the Limoux Elite 1 game on their Youtube channel?
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30 minutes ago, audois said:
Baby Dracs will field half a dozen lads who played Super League last year at Limoux Sunday. Half back Rouge going back to his home town team. Lezignan XXL in 2022 will take some beating with Maloney and Baitieri on board. The Aude derbys should be good with crowds back. Even with going just 9 teams. Albi look as they will be better than last term so seven teams could be chasing play offs spots. Fingers crossed TO Elite too to improve. The Dragons and TO in SL raising the profile of the code here now.
Is Rouge still the standout hope though in terms of regular SL prospects or are there other coming through who you really fancy to make that step?
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Who are the St. Esteve/TO Elite youngsters to be looking out for with a genuine chance of playing SL?
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1 hour ago, Damien said:
And so it begins:
The delay of the Rugby League World Cup to 2022 looms as a major hurdle for the NRL’s second Brisbane team, with the competition newcomers to have less than six weeks for their players to train together before their first season.
With the Redcliffe Dolphins favourites to be selected as the 17th team this week ahead of the Firehawks and Jets, officials involved with the three bids are aware the bulk of their recruits will not be available to train until the start of 2023 if involved in the World Cup.
Under the collective bargaining agreement, players are entitled to six-to-eight weeks annual leave. This year players with more than five years experience were entitled to 10 weeks because of COVID-19 and the restrictions that have been placed on them for the past two years.
Should players feature in the World Cup final on November 19 next year, some of them will not be required to start training until the middle of January.
NRL 2021: Rugby League World Cup could hurt league’s expansion franchise (smh.com.au)
The NRL spin machine is both slick and shameless but I don't see it convincing NZ, Tonga and Samoa; the players of the 16 other franchises and the general public that a world cup shouldn't happen so that 1 side can have a longer pre-season.
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I don't buy the idea that bigger stadia automatically makes SL a better product.
As a TV viewer, I'm much more likely to become interested in a game when there is a ground that is largely full, is generating a good atmosphere and *looks* up to date.
TW Stadium, Halliwell Jones and Headingley might not be as big as the DW/John Smiths/ KCOM but they make for a much better TV product.
Whilst Moor Lane obviously has its challenges, seeing it 80%+ full under the lights with a proper atmosphere will make it a much more attractive proposition than a third full, soulless AJ Bell.
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Salford to move to Moor Lane?
in The General Rugby League Forum
Posted
I largely agree with that. Personally, I think the club's current directors are doing a good job of slowly and sustainably building the club back up from what was a pretty dire situation following Koukash. This isn't a quick fix and it may not be a fix at all in terms of retaining SL status as we have no divine right to stay in SL with our crowds as they are.
The pandemic couldn't have come at a worse time in terms of building momentum from the Grand Final and Challenge Cup Final but we can't use that as an excuse not to raise our attendances.
Our crowds are incredibly frustrating when you consider the size and economic growth of both Manchester and Salford. I do believe Salford could/should be important to a growing Super League in this sense but it is up to the club to fulfil that potential. If we don't, we can't expect to continue punching above our weight in Super League as TO, York, Newcastle etc look to take our place.