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Ray Cashmere

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Posts posted by Ray Cashmere

  1. 3 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

    With the future of League 1 in doubt, anyone funding a new club would want to move up through the tiers sharpish and that would take serious money.  The difficulties in getting players to move from the heartlands being what they are, the players needed for such a climb wouldn't be cheap.

    I agree there is a strong argument that there should be no new club in League 1 next season for this reason.

    I'm speculating on the basis that there still will be and trying to weigh up the balance between such new club having the potential to move up through the tiers sharpish (a wide catchment area with no strong allegiances to existing pyramid clubs but some form of RL presence to build from) and the obvious financial/player pool restrictions inherent in League 1.

    I think Nottingham or Liverpool would tick the most boxes here but I'm happy to hear other suggestions. 

  2. 7 minutes ago, Big Picture said:

    I seriously wonder how much Pérez has left to invest now.

    He sold his marketing company in Toronto when he decided to focus on RL full time and that money funded his initiatives with the CRL (such as the Canada-Jamaica matches during Carabana which wouldn't have happened otherwise) and his trips over to England to pitch his idea for a pro team in Toronto in the English structure.  He's already spent plenty on those ventures, I wonder how much he's out of pocket for it all?

    A rich big time backer would be needed in cities like those, and there evidently aren't many Brits in that category looking to back an RL club these days.

    I'm not sure the capital outlay in a city like Nottingham would need to be massive when there are strong university and amateur links and an existing League 1 talent pool in the wider region with ex-Sheffield/Doncaster/Coventry players. Transport links also wouldn't be a major issue which is an important  financial consideration in League 1 so I think 'rich big time backer' is a bit hyperbolic. Obviously things change should there be loftier ambitions than becoming competitive in League 1 in the short to medium term.

    There isn't any cheap solution here but there are realistic options and less realistic options (Dublin for example).



  3. If Perez is still planning to invest a bit of money into this then I think Nottingham would be the obvious choice with the Outlaws having a decent amateur setup and strong university sides at UoN and Trent.

    They would also act as a nice bridge between Sheffield & Doncaster in S. Yorks and Coventry in the Midlands in terms of grassroots development and community RL. 

    Worryingly, there seems to be a rumour they will base themselves out of Bradford which would be a disaster. 

  4. Another amateurish press release in rugby league which leaves more questions than answers.


    The optimist in me says this actually provides an opportunity to expand the games footprint more sensibly and sustainably in a city like Birmingham, Bristol or Nottingham. That would mean having an enormous amount of faith in Ralph Rimmer/Eric Perez to actually have done some strategic thinking and due diligence though.

    No doubt we'll end up with a 4th Wakefield postcode side in the pyramid announced two weeks before the 2022 season. 

    • Haha 1
  5. 3 hours ago, Pulga said:

    Develop France and Wales at bare minimum. Losing to an exhibition team is such a bad look.

    Obviously the ideal situation is to have competitive French, Welsh, Irish and Scottish teams.

    The reality is that France are the only side nearing a competitive opposition for England and containing homegrown players. 

    The sport should be putting a lot of focus on developing player pathways in the other home nations but, for the time being, France & the Combined Nations are the only competitive options for England 

  6. I'm glad there will be another All Stars game next year, I just hope it is part of a longer-term strategy and the RFL will invest their energy in marketing it as it *could* be a very useful tool for growing the game domestically.

    One of our biggest failings is our inability to market the stars of our league. That is what the All Stars game should be all about. Casual/potential fans neither know or care that David Fusitua isn't Brian To'o or Aidan Sezer isn't Nathan Cleary. We have players in Super League who have the skill to light up a game and produce viral moments which can attract new audiences and that is what should matter.

    Besides, the All Stars and France are the only two realistic options for competitive mid-season international fixtures so, whilst the concept may be a bit contrived, we have to work with what we have rather than resign ourselves to not having the perfect product.

    • Like 4
  7. 21 hours ago, Rowan said:

    Salford  -  even with a team of all-stars of some of the best players in the game under Brian Snape- have never averaged 8 - 9,000 at The Willows so when Ray Cashmere tries to explain the reasons for their plight and for moving out of the AJ Bell to a smaller ground he is told "the club must try harder."  If A Grand Final and a Cup Final appearance in the last two years can't encourage people to watch the Red Devils what can they do to "try harder?"

    I largely agree with that. Personally, I think the club's current directors are doing a good job of slowly and sustainably building the club back up from what was a pretty dire situation following Koukash. This isn't a quick fix and it may not be a fix at all in terms of retaining SL status as we have no divine right to stay in SL with our crowds as they are. 

    The pandemic couldn't have come at a worse time in terms of building momentum from the Grand Final and Challenge Cup Final but we can't use that as an excuse not to raise our attendances. 

    Our crowds are incredibly frustrating when you consider the size and economic growth of both Manchester and Salford. I do believe Salford could/should be important to a growing Super League in this sense but it is up to the club to fulfil that potential. If we don't, we can't expect to continue punching above our weight in Super League as TO, York, Newcastle etc look to take our place.

    • Like 6
  8. 22 hours ago, Davo5 said:

    Well with 8-9 K attendances they might have been able to keep up with their rent & wouldn’t be facing eviction.

    You can't be evicted from a premises you are no longer contracted to reside in; as will be the case in 2023 which is the date all parties seem to agree will be the date Sale/Salford City complete & we vacate...


    22 hours ago, Davo5 said:

    What makes you think Salford’s attendances will increase by moving to  a tiny,stadium with poor facilities ?

    Its size will hardly improve the TV product no matter how many are in attendance,it will still look like an amateur ground hardly befitting the top level of RL in the Northern hemisphere.

    Moor Lane is in a better geographical location within the Salford area than the AJ Bell in terms of historical fanbase. Moor Lane may give us the opportunity to create and retain matchday revenue outside of ticket sales which AJ Bell does not. I believe the matchday experience will be better as well on account of it not being a soulless identikit stadium that smells of sewerage.

    That does not mean it is an aspirational move nor is it a magic bullet for attendances. It is the clubs responsibility (and Salford's more fairweather fans) to increase attendances. Various owners have failed to realise the corporate and commercial potential of playing at the AJ Bell in terms of proximity to Trafford Park, MediaCity & Manchester City Centre. This will undoubtedly be harder at Moor Lane. However, it is a sector the whole sport fails to successfully engage with. 

    • Like 1
  9. 2 minutes ago, hunsletgreenandgold said:

    I just think too much blame is been attributed the running of SRD and not enough consideration offered to the pretty unique position they find themselves in. Not one but two far wealthier entities are proposing to outright purchase the stadium. Even if SRD were getting 7k a game and finances were historically better, you still don't think the squeeze from these other 2 clubs would see them in the same position? I believe it would. 

    But hunsletgreenandgold; money doesn't matter in the purchase of a stadium when you can just 'try harder'. Didn't you know!

  10. This is an open invitation to anyone who thinks all Salford need to do is 'try harder', 'act like a big club' or 'just get 9k through your gates' in order to purchase the AJ Bell to come and participate in the fans forum on 4th November to impart your pearls of wisdom on the directors and match-going fans.

    I won't hold my breath. 


  11. 2 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

    It might seem harsh but I've nothing against Salford at all. I want them to do well. But is everything not their fault? I'd suggest a huge chunk of the situation they are in is down to them and them alone.

    Who though? The previous owners (The Wilkinson family/Marwan Koukash)? The current administration (Paul King etc)? The employees? The fans? The community?


    You can't just dumb down what is an incredibly complex situation to get an easy answer. There is plenty of blame to go around for the position we are in amongst plenty of different people and stakeholders. I have neither the time nor the interest to go down that rabbit hole though so if you want to pin it all on 'the club' as if it's this homogenous entity then feel free.

    • Like 2
  12. 4 minutes ago, Damien said:

    Sale have wanted to buy the stadium for years. Nothing new there. The Council have always refused to sell though, until seemingly now. Salford failing to pay rent and debts has contributed massively to the stadium failing and not turning a profit. That is undeniable. Now some Salford fans may like to wash their hands and pretend the two aren't linked but it is precisely the actions of Salford over the years that have led to the weak position they now find themselves in.

    1) It has never been solely the council's decision. The AJ Bell is owned by CosCos which is a joint venture between Salford Council AND Peel Holdings. Whilst Salford Council do have a level of accountability with the local community, Peel Holdings do not. Neither you nor I know the exact nature of that dynamic but, in my opinion, it was destined to fail. 

    2) Sale did previously express an interest in buying the AJ Bell in 2016/17 but it wasn't feasible for several reasons: a) our tenancy agreement was secured until 2023, b) Plan A was still to build a ground IN Sale (which has subsequently become unfeasible), c) Salford Council could not be seen to sell SRD out to an-out-of-town Sale Sharks.

    3) The role of Salford City and the Class of 92 has made a material impact upon the legitimacy of Sale's bid as Salford Council can now argue they are continuing to honour the primary purpose of the stadium i.e. as a stadium for the City of Salford. Further, our tenancy will have expired by the time of purchase making it more attractive proposition 

    4) Our move to the AJ Bell has been a car crash. Unrealistic financial projections by all stakeholders, uncompleted infrastructure and a total lack of fan engagement have all contributed to where we are now. It has been a case study in how not to move grounds. The idea that match going fans and the current ownership are somehow responsible is detached from reality. 

    • Like 1
  13. 48 minutes ago, Johnoco said:

    The difference is those clubs aren't being booted out of their stadium.

    I didn't say they would be loaded if they had a better attendance, I said they would not be in such a vulnerable position. Maybe they would be seen as the preferred partner if they did have bigger crowds? Maybe they'd be a more attractive proposition for any potential business looking to invest in a sports club. 

    It's all connected, perception can be everything. And if the perception is of Salford being a failing club leaving behind a string of unpaid debts, then they don't have a strong bargaining hand.

    I wish it was different, I'd love to see Salford locking them out every week.

    Perception doesn't fund the purchase of stadiums. Brian Kennedy (the Sale Sharks owner worth c.£275m), the Class of 92 and Peter Lim do. If you want to continue engaging in ifs, buts and maybes then be my guest but I'd rather deal with reality. 

    Any club who is a tenant in their stadium is subject to the conditions set by their landlord. Ask Coventry City and Wigan Warriors fans.  

    Nowhere am I defending our attendances. I'm merely stating that they're immaterial to the fact a billionaire, his football mates and a Sunday Times Richlist rugby union owner want to buy our ground and, as tenants, it's out of our hands. Unless you can point out any inaccuracies in the above I really don't know what you're arguing about.

    • Like 7
  14. 1 hour ago, Johnoco said:

    Well do you think Salford would be in such a vulnerable position if they had an average attendance of 8-9K? (Which isn't sensational in itself but much better than 3-4K )

    The crowds are definitely the issue.

    You're putting words in my mouth. I referenced our poor attendances 4 posts above if you could be bothered reading. I merely stated attendances aren't the driving force behind us leaving.

    It is highly unlikely crowds of 8-9k would have a material impact on our capacity to buy the AJ Bell. The sort of capital required for such an investment is only possible through private equity (more likely a benefactor) in rugby league. We don't have one. Salford City & Sale Sharks do and intend to buy the AJ Bell.

    Even Super League clubs who do have the attendances and/or private investment (Wigan, Hull, Huddersfield) cannot afford their own stadium. Let's not pretend this isn't a wider issue.

    Super League does need clubs with better funding, attendances and infrastructure than what we currently have but, let's face it, we're far from unique in that sense. I've no issue engaging in those issues but there are a million other threads on here to do with that. 

  15. Poor crowds aren't 'driving' the move. Salford City & Sale Sharks possessing both the willingness and financial means to buy the AJ Bell is what is driving the move. 

    This isn't about 'looking for' positives either. I'm well aware that a move to Moor Lane will provide serious challenges as well as opportunities. The next Fans' Forum on 4th November will hopefully add some clarity as to what these challenges and opportunities specifically are.

    • Like 1
  16. 1 hour ago, Dave T said:

    It rather misses the point of the issues tbh. The issue is the 4,000 part.

    I agree. But the point of this thread is Salford's move to Moor Lane; not Salford's poor attendances. The other poster believed it was our potential move to Moor Lane that was the issue; not our poor attendances.

    We'd contribute much more to Super League with 5,000 every week at Moor Lane than 4,000 at the AJ Bell. The size of the ground is irrelevant unless and until it is full every week. What matters is the matchday experience, TV product and the opportunity to create and retain our own revenue outside of ticket sales. 

    • Like 4
  17. 2 hours ago, Scubby said:

    I dont have a vested interest I don't even support a club. I can just see how the game is dumbing down to the point that a toy town stadium is now suitable for SL. It is not Salford's fault.

    I dont have to go I can see all the photos and videos I need of Moor Lane. It us a shoe box stadium with a identikit stands. I've also been to Dewsbury which is also nice and tiny. Unfortunately that is the point. No one will be promoting Dewsbury any time soon.

    All I needed to know.

    • Like 1
  18. 2 hours ago, Scubby said:

    I believe they also told a couple of Championship clubs in this year's play offs that they couldn't be promoted (Whitehaven was one).

    What is the difference between the Rec Ground and Moor Lane?

    Genuine question: have you been to the Peninsula Stadium since the last refurbishments were completed?


    I'm absolutely fine having a discussion about crowds, what we bring to SL etc but at least make sure you have something beyond preconceptions and a vested interest.

    • Like 1
  19. 11 minutes ago, Hvy wg said:

    Yes but I'll be surprised if we get anything out of this halfback pair. Too complacent. Youre getting beaten and they throw the same set again and again. 

    Rouge to me looked like he was trying to avoid injury so as to be involved next week.


    Few decent tries but defensively v poor and way too many errors . Expected more tbh.

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