The Voodooguru
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Posts posted by The Voodooguru
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As an update, my workmate who watches both reds & Town occasionally and is fairly neutral asked some questions of the new stadium on the website as I think he sees himself as a moderator for my knee jerk reactions. They have replied and although he won't forward me the email the replies are roughly as follows from memory.
On the question of if the stadium will be stuck at phase 1 and will never see phase 2 & 3. They say they fully intend to see all phases completed and this will be funded by the ESG ( environmental offsetting) they are very confident this will happen. My mate asked the question if there had been any commitments on this front but this wasn't addressed and neither were any timescales.
He asked about the reusing of the terracing and if it was just a stadium refurbishment. They said they wouldn't knock anything down they didn't need to, and cost would be a factor, think they also said it would be something that the clubs and architects would work through. So although there wasn't clear answer they pointed out the development of Lonsdale Park along with the stadium, which I took that it is essentially a redevelopment of Borough Park for the stadium footprint. A few of us who read the reply all took it this way.
It was a decent enough reply and as I thought they kept their cards close to their chest on the contentious issues. As a new found pessimist on the stadium it didn't ease any of my fears. But fair play that they did reply.
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17 minutes ago, IanMac said:
Just an update on the voting and shares question I raised via the csv website and subsequent answer that I received that everything was 50/50 between the reds and town. Quite remarkably this info has now been updated on companies house to reflect that in a matter of days. Hopefully all other questions and queries are dealt with in the same quick manner.
I work with someone who submitted a few questions and is still waiting for a response, I'm guessing it will be around a week or more now.
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2 hours ago, Rex3 said:
Given the genuine issues raised here, the continued silence of the Town Board is plainly unacceptable.
I am a big supporter of a new stadium and want to know from the Town reps on the joint steering group what they intend to do to help resolve the concerns.
My big fear is that even stage 1 gets bogged down in wrangling and the funding is lost so we miss this once in a lifetime opportunity for future generations, because one thing is certain, as the country is in such a state after 13 years of the current shower, there'll be no future money coming our way for a new stadium.
I agree the BOD need to address this and give people who have spent thousands of pounds supporting the club some reassurances they are not allowing the club to be sold down the river and actually have had a say in all this.
I fully understand and support the principle of the new stadium, but I don't support moving into a polished tuurrd, with little prospect of the remaining phases being realised.
The reds must think all their Christmas' have came at once, they get a new pitch, a new stand, a training pitch for all their various teams to play on, and they get to halve future expenses and maintenance costs.
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2 hours ago, Rex3 said:
From Dave Bowdens open and Frank q&a at Reds AGM, three things
1. Stage 1 likely to go ahead pending a few condition being met, but stage 2 depends on finding £3m and they're nowhere near finding it.
2. Despite the time they've had and its importance,nothing has been done about the sale of D Pk land .
It is obvious that the proceeds of this sale offer opportunity to secure substantial funding for stage 2,at least £1m.
Thinking about concerns on this thread, it was stated that it is only at stage 2 that a realignment of the pitch for RL will be possible. Until then, as others have said, you are talking about a new stand with the existing pitch,terraces and tin sheets.
3. It has been ,and is, the responsibility of the Town Board to sort out the DPk sale for the new stadium because they are the leaseholders.
So, surely fans need and deserve a public meeting so that Town Directors can update us on what is happening from a RL perspective and also what they are going to do to get the DPk land sale into stage 2 funding?
Can those of you on here who know Board members, urge them to organise this asap ?
Well that's my worst fears just about realised. Reds stay in their ground and get a shiny new stand and Town give up their ground to move into a substandard arena with little prospect of all the phases being completed in any reasonable timescale. Are we really going to inspire generations to come in a half done ground. Even if DP was sold for a million where is the other 2m coming from when the two clubs sitting as tennants are hardly wealthy enough to stay afloat let alone fund millions in ground improvements? Plus a big main stand will hardly be viable as it is so close to the road, so elevated seats must be hard to achieve on the footprint available.
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2 hours ago, Davo5 said:
It isn’t & certainly not from the grandstand.
Bit of a contradiction in terms calling it a grandstand isn't it? Sorry couldn't help it...
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1 hour ago, dkw said:
Which bits are written from a reds perspective?
If thus is about the FAQ section then it's answering questions, or do you think it's all curated content?
If you do then why do you think they would do it?
Whats with all the questions like?
My quoted points were backing up something that DTTRR said about some of the content being from a reds perspective, I look forward to your disection given the blunt questioning.
Right here goes.
I've already quoted two examples earlier in the thread. I was completely unaware it was also on the reds site and if its been directly replicated from there, this would explain it as it will have been written by someone from the reds side of the Tesco road. But I stand by my view regardless.
I have no idea if it's all curated, but I'd guess at least some of it is.
My guess if they have done this is because they have tried to pre-empt possible questions that fans may have.
I hope I haven't disappointed with my answers.
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2 hours ago, dkw said:
It's on their website, it's written by them, it's a notice for their fans, of course it's going to be written from a reds perspective, same as Towns statement when it's released will be written from our perspective. I've no idea how you thought it would be anything else.
I've never been on the reds website, I was quoting bits from the new stadium website so no I didn't expect it would be written from a reds perspective. Does that explain why I thought it would anything else?
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6 hours ago, Unicorn 106 said:
I stood on the old railway sleeper terracing at BP for many a year, and remember the excitement of getting the new concrete terracing in 1970. We used to sit on Brow top and watch them pouring the concrete in. I've been behind a new stadium from day one, but will feel very let down if I finish up standing on that same terracing I watched them construct all those years ago. This is nowhere near the sports village that was cancelled. I honestly thought I would take anything rather than have the cost of maintaining a crumbling DP hanging around our neck, I'm not so sure now, but let's wait and see.
Yeah although I'm not old enough to have watched them pouring the concrete, it's about exactly where I'm at with the rest of it.
I was very disappointed when the original plan got binned as it was a golden opportunity gone for political reasons. But I came out of the Carneigie meeting in a positive mood that although it was never going to be the same as the original plan it was still going to be a fresh start for both clubs and a decent facility. I started having doubts when although there is a deadline to work to for securing the funding it's been a wall of silence for months and probably taken a year to even set a website up. My main concern is that phase 1 is only ever completed and both teams are left with something half built that is essentially a new stand on Borough Park. In which case both clubs would be better off with £2.5m each to improve their own grounds and build the training pitch with the rest ( which I know isn't an option)
As you have said all we can do is wait and see and hope our fears are misplaced.
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21 minutes ago, rockerlad said:
What reserve grade and youth sides do town have that can use the stadium? reds have all that in place and are paying to use sites like st benedicts at whitehaven
I'm not challenging the validity of what was written in terms of the reds, I was giving you an example why DTTRR was saying it was written from a reds perspective, as it explained all the reds teams that would use it then gave town as an addition but I guess you already know that and I suspect you are just trying to provoke reaction. I'm not into playing games. Have your fun with others.
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28 minutes ago, rockerlad said:
reds don't even have a rep on the stadium committee
Will Reds be able to stay at Borough Park when the new stadium work begins?
This option is under consideration but it is likely that whatever happens we will need to vacate Borough Park before the construction work is complete.They use the word "we" when answering questions about reds on the website. I also got the impression it was written from a reds perspective. The following exert also gives me the same impression as the rugby is almost an add on.
Currently, the activities of the Workington AFC teams, and the linked ladies and junior teams academy and community activity, are delivered across a range of sites in Workington and beyond. A second pitch will help the club meet its desire to bring them all together on one site. That will help the pathway from grassroots to senior first teams, and meet their aspirations to grow the game. On top of this, there is a need from the wider football family in the town to have access to more 3G facilities.
In addition it will provide a wider opportunity for Workington Town RLFC and the wider Rugby League community to expand its offer, and include other community organisations
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13 minutes ago, Route66 said:
I understand that statement but why show that rotation unless it's not the intention, probably from the reds point of view you could in theory start to build the new stand where the town end is whilst still using the rest of the ground, I will admit the football seems to have the better of the deal to start with but maybe it's time to move on similar to those comets fans who seem to be embracing their new home plans. Remember this stadium isnt intended for us old timers but for the future of local sports
I just don't know how you re-use terracing if it's in a different orientation. I think the original intention may have been to turn it through 90 degrees but maybe finances dictate that they now have to renovate the stadium.
I've been behind the whole concept of the new stadium from the beginning. I thought the one scuppered by Mark Jenkinson would have been the catalyst in the health of future generations as it was a premium stadium. But now it seems to have been diluted down so much to the reality that we will be watching rugby in Borough Park with a new stand. Plans for other phases that may never come to fruition if funding can't be found may be pie in the sky in the current climate, and where does that leave the once grand project? Will a one sided stadium have the necessary positive impact on both clubs & the community?
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6 minutes ago, Route66 said:
The artist impression on Cumbria crack shows the ground with the main stand running alongside black path, meaning the current pitch will be turned 90 degrees, hopefully with the website up and running full plans will be available sooner rather than later
The images on the website have the following caveat.
PLEASE NOTE THESE IMAGES ARE INDICATIVE ONLY AND ARE NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF WHAT WILL BE THE FINAL PLAN
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39 minutes ago, rockerlad said:
It says "it's much more than a revamp" the pitch at Borough Park has to be extended as it isn't big enough for rl and the only way to do this would be to remove a few rows of terracing.
"retain some of the functionality of the site"
you seeing what you want to see.
On the contrary, I'm seeing exactly what I didn't want to see. In the carneigie a new stadium was promised to us, now they are admitting they are revamping Borough Park, otherwise they would have denied it was a revamp. Instead they are saying it is "much more than revamp" not a completely new stadium. They are even keeping terracing which proves it will be in the same footprint of Borough Park.
I really wanted this to be a good thing for everyone and I wanted it to succeed. But now to make it affordable they have changed their plans and I've changed my mind. Reds fans will have a very different view as they are getting a new stand on their ground.
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37 minutes ago, rockerlad said:
it literally says a "new shared stadium in the vision" the pitch at Borough Park isn't big enough for RL so it will have to be made bigger.
The plans will include:
The redevelopment of the existing footprint of Borough Park to create a new shared stadium for Workington Reds and Workington Town. It will provide a new modern stadium that will meet the aspirations of the clubs and provide a foundation for their future progression.
The new facilities will be located close to Workington Leisure Centre where a new outdoor events space and outdoor gym has already been built. It is also near to the well-established cricket and bowling club so this area will become a hub of sporting excellence.
Wider demand for high-quality playing pitches in Workington will not be met solely through the core shared stadium pitch alone so an integral part of the project will be the development of all weather community pitch facilities on Lonsdale Park, adjacent to Borough Park.
It also says.
Is this new stadium just a revamped Borough Park?
Situated on the Borough Park/Lonsdale Park site, and with over £6.4m currently invested in the stadium for phase 1, with additional funding for the community pitch, it is much more than a revamp. Until other stages are financed and completed it would make sense to retain some of the functionality of the site e.g., terracing.So basically its a revamp with a training pitch.
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Oh dear, looks like we are moving to Borough Park then. If they are retaining the old terracing it's just gonna be a new stand on the old footprint. So much for the promises of a completely new stadium in the carneigie.
We had a player carried off after colliding with the railings during our short time there so it clearly isn't big enough.
I feared this would be the case.
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48 minutes ago, Mr Frisky said:
From your post - your "narcissistic MP"
Sorry if I have touched a nerve with my criticism of him, I actually tamed what i thought of him down as well
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I honestly wasn't sure if you meant him or Dave Bowden and his team as MJs story is all about him already doing his bit and passing the buck to the clubs.
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1 hour ago, Mr Frisky said:
But if he and his team are working hard and pushing it through, we'll done to him - its easy to criticise without the facts so let's see how it pans out.
Who and who's team?
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My fear our narcissistic MP does nothing unless it shines a light on himself, from Xmas cards, books, or presents for ex servicemen all paid for from his expenses pot to try and boost his credibility. The fact he's put that story out makes me wonder if he knows something. There has been complete silence as a response to the article from the group dealing with the stadium which is also worrying. Surely if everything was on track there would have been updates or at least reassurances. Fingers crossed they are just waiting to do a big reveal, but the Jenkinson story doesn't just come out of the blue for my money.
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1 hour ago, rockerlad said:
the area has been selected to build small nuclear reactors, with the mine and now this maybe funding towards the stadium will come from these 2 sectors
Yeah at the carneigie meeting they were targeting Rolls Royce nuclear for investment, but now that's gone elsewhere these can hopefully fill the gap.
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It's been worryingly quiet since the Carneigie brief, where I have to admit that I was optimistic about something happening. Since then the costs of everything have spiralled so I'm now back to being sceptical of whether a stadium fit for both teams is possible. I am back to being worried about a bus shelter with 3 open sides.
I thought the timeline had a design agreed and tendered by the end of this year, or did I remember that wrong?
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Brilliant win yesterday, so pleased for Chris & the lads.
Also it shows that even with all the things against them like half term, jubilee, on telly, etc etc a decent crowd turned up and probably made up the loss of the cheaper ticket prices with what they spent on food & drink. Let's hope its something that can be built on both on & off the field.
I don't see any reason why we can't go to Batley and give them a game on Sunday. UTT
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10 minutes ago, Death to the Rah Rah's said:
Did they give any indication at the meeting as to how much the new stadium will cost?
I was looking at Boston United new ground, the Jakemans Community Stadium which opened around 2020 and looks a cracking little ground, which is basically one very well equipped main grandstand and covered terracing and that cost £12 million !!
I think it has a 6,000 capacity
There's a video showing how the work is progressing, can't help but think something along these lines would be ideal. I think the end that is still to be completed is a sports hall
https://www.bostonunited.co.uk/news/video--community-stadium-latest-2589592.html
We are looking at less than that for both the training pitch and the stadium, so I suppose it gives an idea of the standard of facility it will be.
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Worth going and all the speakers were very credible. If they pull off their plans we will have a decent functional stadium both clubs can use to take them forward. The best bit is that it will be jointly owned by the clubs with no debt attached.
The 5.4m from the town fund is time bound and has to be spent or it will be lost. So the plan is to build the footprint of a new stadium and training pitch. With one main stand and possibly one opposite ( although this wasn't definite) Then using funding hopefully from the FA and big business the initial figure will be matched to deliver a complete 4 sided modular stadium and training facility.
For me the positives are that they are using experts in their field to make up or advise the initial Cumberland Sports Village Ltd company to deliver the project. Not borrowing money to deliver it and It seems achievable.
Negatives are to me (and this is just my opinion) it all seems a bit too fingers crossed and hope its affordable at this stage. Nothing more than a sketch and some aspirations of what may be achievable. Maybe through my own ignorance I expected it to be further down the line. Given the changeover from Allerdale to Cumberland is happening there seems to be a lot of uncertainty over the commitment of what may happen. Also it's a possibility we may end up with an underwhelming one sided stadium that's half finished.
Thought some of the reds fans believe they are just rebuilding the stands on Borough Park with one even wanting to keep the terracing, another was worried the current pitch isn't long enough.
I think the devil will be in the detail. I doubt it will be as good as I wished but hopefully better than I feared.
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53 minutes ago, Derwent Parker said:
Dave Bowden was spot on . No Arguments
But that does not mean everybody makes good decisions all the time
But he isn't making the decision alone is he? He is part of a group of like minded people that will all want the very best opportunity to have a facility that can generate money for both clubs to thrive.
Can't you just lay the predictions of the apocalypse to one side until you do know what the plans actually are?
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Stadium updates .......
in Workington Town
Posted
Completely agree that this needs to happen.
We start getting into murky waters when things get political. Regardless of his political alliances I have no time for Jenkinson after how he acted during the last stadium plans. He turned it into a political matter and took great delight shutting the plans down quoting dubious worst case scenario figures. He even made an appearance on here spouting rubbish, and he's never been seen since.
He claims responsibility for grant of the 5m, which over a hundred other areas in the country were also granted, applied for by councils and not MPs. And his friend Mike "found" 1 million from Allerdale ( brown envelope or from down the back of the sofa?) The man is a full blown psychopath, just look at his twitter account for confirmation.