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Exiled Wiganer

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Posts posted by Exiled Wiganer

  1. 1 hour ago, Damien said:

    This is strawman argument. Most people look at individuals on a case by case basis and the only people who keep repeating this are the people who seem to not rate Farnworth. 

    I don’t know how long you have watched the game, but it is based on purely logical reasoning. I have seen lots of players selected to play for England based on their form in the Australian competition, and cannot recall a single one whom I had not seen over here who made me think that the NRL was producing better England qualified players than our competition. Hence my argument is simple - I would counsel caution in assuming that Sutton, say, has become a better player than the middle of road squad player that we see. We can call this the Josh Hodgson Principle if you like. 

  2. 7 hours ago, Dunbar said:

    If you watched the game, you would have seen that Farnworth was on the wing, not full back.

    I had watched the game with the sound off, and saw that he had 1 on his back I fast forwarded to when Brisbane had the ball, so saw his taking it out of defence I assumed they had an odd formation for kick returns. 

    Edited to remove toollish comment from me. 

    • Like 1
  3. I thought Farnworth was good in the game I watched against the Raiders, in a really poor side. Not great, and not in the top 5 NRL fullbacks I have seen in the last week, but not hopeless by any means. He may develop in time to be a really good player, or do a Sutton, and cement his place as an NRL top 17 player. I remain unconvinced that he is a better 1 than Tomkins or Hardaker or a better centre than Percival, Gildart, Newman or King, but he may be as good as those centres. 

    Again, everything I have seen over many years makes me doubt the assumption that any NRL starter is bound to be better than the best of SL. 

    • Like 2
  4. 25 minutes ago, yipyee said:

    Player drops the ball

    Opposing player picks it up and scores

    The rest is crooked thinking based on if you hate saints or not, simple as

    The ref made a call in real time, the video ref had time to think and agreed.

    I have seen far worse where players knew the ref had got it wrong but scored anyway, Leeds at magic, a knock on in the hull derby are the worst 2 I can think of, several times a season the camera catches players smirking as they know they have got away with one etc.. All the players just play to the whistle and then see what the ref does next.

    Nothing to see here, move along please..

    It cuts both ways, of course. One man’s “crooked thinking” is another man’s one eyed blindness.

    I see that you don’t seem to have a view as to what your reaction would have been had any of the alternative endings occurred. Perhaps you would have been angry that Saints had looked beyond the letter of the law, rather than considered the spirit of the game? 

  5. 6 hours ago, Dunbar said:

    We appear to be going around in circles and so I am going to leave my final thoughts on this topic and step away (feel free to respond, I am not trying to have the last word).

    Griffin dropped ball and Fages picked it up and scored.

    Maybe Griffin shouldn't have dropped the ball despite being in pain but he did.

    Maybe Fages shouldn't have picked it up and scored but he did.

    Some people say it was fair game, some say it was bad sportsmanship.  Some people think that Saints should have given FC a try back and some say these are the breaks in professional sport.  These are just opinions and nothing can be settled on opinions.

    The laws of the game were applied and we don't need any new laws - not least those based on the opinions above as we will get nowhere.

    On that spectrum, I am firmly in the “Fages knew what he was doing, but chose to do the wrong thing camp”, plus Coote kicking the goal was even worse.


    I have no particular views on the letter of the law, but looking at from the converse position, had Fages’ reaction been to stop and see how badly injured Griffin was, and/or Coote to decline the kick and/or Saints allowed FC a level up try then I would be at the front of the queue applauding them having done the right thing.
     

    I am yet to read any Saints’ fans asserting that they would be apoplectic had any of those things happened, which I think says all that needs to be said. 

  6. 1 hour ago, Saint Toppy said:

    I'll take the opinion of 3 ex-professional players, the referee's and the current Hull head coach over your poor argument any day. None of them think there's any need for any sort of rule change or that the Griffin/Fages try was nothing more than a 1 off unfortunate incident where everyone involved just played exactly to the rules of the game.

    Of course you will. Just as you would take the opposite view had the position been reversed. 

  7. 6 minutes ago, Rupert Prince said:

    OK.  If seen the BBC clips.  It looks to me that as Griffin got his injury he took a step maybe 2 and had to stop.  It was clear at that point he had a serious injury. He had to fall, but he was on one leg. He had to support himself, he did not throw the ball away, he needed to support himself. He had to drop the ball, he was incapable of holding on to it.

    It's not clear what Fages saw but 2 Saints players stopped to help him.

    Two things.  1)    The ref should have chalked off the try, by making up whatever rule he liked.  I don't blame the referee, but all he had to do was call off time and go back to look at Griffin, then make a decision, no need necessarily to ask the Video Ref, he simply could call dead vall, or helf or what ever.  There is no time limit on calling try or no try.     2)    Otherwise, as clearly some Saints players knew what happened and themselves stopped dead, Saints should have conceded a try right off the kick off. I believe it was close to the end of the 1st half anyway.

    This was very sad, very upsetting, very unedifying.  The thing to me which I am unhappy about is that I believe Griffin had to drop the ball, a try was not deserved.

    No need for rule changes.

    The saddest angle is the one which pretty much shows it from Fages’ perspective, as that shows exactly what he saw, and how long he had to choose what to do next. The greatest game just got smaller. 

    • Haha 1
  8. 30 minutes ago, Saint Toppy said:

    OK look at other sports as an example then, as people keep referring to football.

    In F1 lets say Hamilton or Verstappen has an engine failure (which is just bad luck akin to an injury to a rugby player), does the other one voluntarily withdraw from the race or do they race on and try to take advantage of their opposition's misfortune ?

    They race on every time - does that make then immoral or unsporting - No of course it doesn't because that's just the nature of competitive professional sport.

    Given its an Olympic year lets look at another example then, its the final lap of say the 1500m and the race leader pulls a hamstring with only say 20m to go, do the other runners behind all stop and let the injured leader win the race or do they pass him ? - They pass him of course - does that make then immoral or unsporting ?

    Professional sport can be cruel at times, particularly where injuries are concerned - but thats just part & parcel of sport.

    This isn’t that, but I am sure I am not alone in suspecting that you would support Fages and Coote had they jointly bayoneted poor Griffin. Someone mentioned Clubb and Flower above, as a reason for not being in a position to comment. For my part, I have always asserted that Wigan should have sacked Flower for the disgrace he heaped upon the club and the sport, and was more than happy for Clubb to have been given an even longer sentence (but generally defer to our usually excellent disciplinary). Hardaker was added to that list of miscreants, but I thought his Wigan career as a player had been one mostly of rehabilitation - though, of course, he is currently banned for a head butt. 

  9. 1 hour ago, Waynebennettswinger said:

    Oh yes a typo. Well done 👏.

    The thread is indeed about Saints V Hull. The Wigan fans are using is at a platform to vent their bitterness. Strange 🤔.

     

    Though it could be argued winding you up is its own reward. 
    I will happily argue this point all day, as, regardless of the team, what he did was deliberate and wrong. It is more fascinating to see the range of reactions from his supporters - from he was just being professional to let’s build a statue in his honour. It wasn’t a good look admission would have been a start. 
    I would be making these points whichever player had behaved like Fages and Coote. Honestly. 

  10. 8 minutes ago, FearTheVee said:

    For that to make any sense Fages would have to be guilty of misconduct for picking up a dropped rugby ball.

    which most sensible people can accept is nuts.

    There are dropped balls and there is what happened in front of Fages. Is it really the case that no Saints fan can see that he should have stopped? It isn’t a surprise but it’s a shame if that’s the case. The idea that it was within the rules and so nothing else should be taken into account, and even, in some cases seemingly that he did the right thing, would be astonishing if it weren’t sadly predictable. 

  11. 6 minutes ago, Out on the full said:

    You are assuming a wrong was done but it wasnt. Its not as if the injury was caused by a Saints player. Had it been then it could be argued that a wrong was there to be put right but he wasnt even tackled. What happened was very unfortunate and unfair but no wrong was done. Fages played to the whistle and as was pointed out by the commentary team if Saints had not picked up the ball or alternatively given Hull a try in return, what type of injury should this apply to? Where should the line be drawn? The ref had not blown the whistle, the ball was dropped so the ball was free to be picked up and the try was there to be scored.

    He should have stopped. It happened directly in his line of vision. His reaction should have been “god that looks like a bad one”, and stopped. One of the TV angles illustrated it perfectly, he was the best placed person on the field, with time to react and choose what to do next. He will have seen players badly injured plenty of times. Indeed, when a player goes down with no one near him you know it’s a bad injury. If he had been blind sided, or had been involved in a tackle in which the ball had come free, then I would have no problem with it (though they should still have declined the kick of course - Coote did that in the certain knowledge that they had been gifted a try after a very bad injury). 

    This goes to them as people, and the culture of the club for whom they play. I would be writing this regardless of which player I had seen act like that. Re watch it from the angle behind Fages and that tells you everything you need to know. As for the ridiculous what iffery, we don’t need to consider those incidents because we have enough evidence before our eyes. If a Wigan player had done that I would expect that the country’s pitch fork supplies would be fully depleted by now. 

  12. 20 minutes ago, Jinking Jimmy said:

    Let’s imagine that this was the Challenge Cup Final and there are just a few seconds left.  A player from the side that’s 2 points in front drops the ball close to his line because of injury. Does the other side do the gentlemanly thing and allow the game to be stopped and subsequently lose the game or do they take advantage of the situation and score a try that wins them the cup? Let’s have honest answers only please.

    Whenever I played we stopped when we knew someone was badly injured. It is quite simply the right thing to do, and I am astonished that it’s even debated in a hard but fair game like ours usually is. Fages chose not to. That’s all on him. Coote chose to kick the goal and that’s on him. 

  13. 5 minutes ago, Dunbar said:

    I would like to say well done to Bret Hodgson for his comments on the Fages try

    Quote "It is the rules of the game, Theo Fages has the opportunity to pick it up, it is fair play."

    Whatever the rights and wrongs of the situation, it is only human nature to have an emotional reaction to a play like that, especially in a cup semi, and I think this is a particularly dignified response from Hodgson straight after the game.

    His class doesn’t take away from the act. It does show that FC and its coach have style, and highlights  a gulf between the 2 clubs. 

    • Haha 1
  14. I have played hundreds of games and you know when someone is badly injured. From Fages’ position it was crystal clear. I would be astonished if he didn’t hear either a snap or Griffin’s cry of agony. It was a simply disgusting display of a deliberate and callous disregard for another player’s health. The ex players will never ever criticise another player in these circumstances, that’s the job of commentators further removed from the game. 

    Fages not only knew what he was doing, he celebrated his try, and Coote happily kicked a goal which was the difference between the 2 sides when the interception was thrown. It was as close to the reason FC aren’t getting to Wembley as you can ever get. Heartbroken for FC and its many excellent fans, though not unhappy to put my woollen top away given how hot it’s been.

    • Haha 1
  15. 12 hours ago, The Phantom Horseman said:

    Was the glorious picture of the try shown here at 50 minutes on the video? Looks like a sumpruous reverse pass by nash which the cameraman didn't quite catch.

     

    Thanks a million for posting that. The photo was of him putting the ball down and about to raise his arms, from the front. That so takes me back. Great hands. A little later, Harry Pinner trained with us. When massive forwards had the softest hands. 

  16. Ken Gill was a public an in our village. He used to train with our group, and we had a glorious picture of him scoring a try for GB in Australia, which I assume was during the mid 70s series MM refers to. Astonishing to think that in those days we had regularly competitive test series between the 2 countries.

    • Like 1
  17. 3 hours ago, audois said:

    Wigan have a special link with the Catalans from their very first SL game in 2006 at Gilbert Brutus. 14 players have played for both sides. The Dragons played on the road here several times , twice in Montpellier and of course the unforgetable game in Barcelona which established a competion record of more than 31,000.

    We have often been good guests, allowing the Cats to sell lots of tickets and then rolling over in the match itself. I suspect this year we will be very competitive indeed. 

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