Damien
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Posts posted by Damien
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29 minutes ago, Thunder Road said:
Whoever made this decision is clearly asleep at the wheel...
It definitely feels like a tail wagging the dog decision
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Its just a really poor, backwards move. As I already said on the other thread if we are to move to 14 at short notice then only those new clubs should go up to 10. That should be a short term measure with gradual reduction. I don't think the existing SL clubs need or should be going down this route.
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This has been discussed on the Nigel Wood thread since yesterday too.
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1 minute ago, Harry Stottle said:
Oh I don't know Damien, those picked up by Adrian Lam over the last few years from his time at Wigan and Leigh have certainly had quite a big impact on the SL comp!
I am talking about extra players above what we have. I can't think of Wigan signing Queensland Cup and NSW Cup level players. Don't think Leigh have either.
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45 minutes ago, Hello said:
Selective mentioning that not so long ago the national RU team was getting around ten times the size crowds as the national football team? I'd say that is a pretty relevant point. Also, up until ten tears ago the pubs across Wales would be much fuller for RU internationals than for club or international football matches. Since Euro 16 there has been a lot more interest in international football than there was previously. I went to school in Wales and spent most of my youth there, surrounded by the culture of the sport in pubs etc so I think that I'm a lot better qualified to talk about this than most on here to be fair.
No one doubts that Welsh people watch RU internationals and have a mighty jolly day drinking and celebrating their Welshness. That still happens today. Your claims of 80k crowds are fantasy. The Millennium Stadium doesn't even hold that. The old stadium held 53k.
I mean if you want to ignore club football and the amount of people that play football in Wales that's up to you. People in North Wales don't give a hoot about RU either. Cardiff City and Swansea City get considerably larger attendances than any Welsh team and have done for years.
Just because what you personally experienced in your youth doesn't make it fact. I wouldn't say Rugby Union is irrelevant in England just because no one in Wigan gave a ###### about it when I was growing up. I know a fair few Welsh people that would say you are talking rubbish and certainly every Welsh person I know who is into Football would.
Anyhow there is a whole Welsh RU thread on cross code if you wish to talk about Welsh RU.
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11 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:
I guess the view is that if you're a 22 year old who's played a year or two as a full-timer in the QCup/NSW Cup you're more likely to cope immediately in SL than a young part-timer from the championship. Or indeed than an untried academy lad, except maybe at Wigan or Leeds.
I'd say that's probably true, in the short term.
We can't really afford to take a short term hit in standards given the precarious nature of our media contracts.
And yes, that's us now being constrained by years of poor previous decisions, but we are where we are.
The biggest short term hit will come from a lack of money. If we are promoting 2 teams with no money to invest and who are doing this on the cheap, see Salford or London in previous years, then yes they will struggle badly and standards will drop. That will be the case regardless of any quota increase.
If 2 teams have money to spend I have no doubt they will be able to build a squad to at least be semi competitive. This ain't coming from signing 10 Queensland Cup players on the cheap and will need a fair percentage of NRL players, decent English lads and building on whatever Championship teams they have. However I don't see this being the case at all and certainly not for next season when we are now in July.
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4 minutes ago, Toby Chopra said:
In the short run though, aren't the two interlinked? ie, the existing clubs are going to lose local English players to the new teams too, so they also need to be able to dip into the Aussie pool in the short term to maintain standards. Even for a club like Wigan, even though they can absorb it better than most.
I'd certainly agree there should be a planned reduction of quota over the following years back to where it was before as we grow the local pool, and of course there's no sign of that.
Not really. The players that normally leave to go to new teams are easily replaceable, we have seen that for 30 odd years. The English players that generally leave to go to such clubs are players that are no longer good enough, at the tale end of their careers, or young lads wanting a shot and needing more game time. The effect on existing SL clubs is negligible.
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10 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:
I'd much prefer any quota increases to be much more strategic than just a blanket increase, that will just seen a flood of players come over from the Queensland Cup.
For example, if one of the 14 for next season is London, I'd be perfectly fine with them having a more relaxed quota than the established heartland clubs. We know that it is difficult for London clubs to attract players when most of our talent pool lives in a much lower cost-of-living part of the country, and attracting overseas talent with a "sell" of a couple of years in London where they can travel around Europe is a good way to get around that issue.
But we won't be that pragmatic or sensible.
Yes this makes much more sense. If we are to move to 14 at short notice let those new clubs go up to 10 as a short term measure with gradual reduction. I don't think the existing SL clubs need or should be going down this route. It's a major step backwards.
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I will be disappointed if my own club, Wigan, make use of this quota increase. I dont think we need to anyway and it would be counter productive. I fully expect us to continue the approach we have took for a number of years and focus on developing our own young players.
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13 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:
RL Project is your friend guys.
Oldham have averaged over 5k twice since 1980 (both in the 80s). Data from before that is minimal.
Widnes have averaged over 5k quite a lot in that time, but over 7.5k only 3 times (all in the 80s again).
A lot of work tapping into latent fanbases would have to happen. Not impossible, but not easy as many would say either.
For some context over 5k in the 1980s is far different to that figure now too, generally attendances were much lower. In some season's the average league attendance was less than that and teams like Warrington and Castleford frequently averaged less than that too.
I have no doubt that Halifax and Oldham would be well placed to get good crowds again if things could fall into place like Wakefield or Hull KR.
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13 minutes ago, Hello said:
Go back not many years and the national Wales football team were struggling to get ten thousand crowds, where the RU team were selling out the millennium stadium 80 thousand or so every game. My son goes to nearly every Wales football game, as does a friend of mine, and they can remember looking at near empty stands. There has been a big decline in the last thirty years in crowds watching RU at club level from a time when they were much higher.
You are just being very selective and looking at a single measure.
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1 hour ago, Tommygilf said:
Strategic Review preplanned move 1 complete:
Really disappointed to hear that. I can't see any justification for needing 10 overseas players. Neither do I think the standard of these extra players is any higher than what we can develop in this country.
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46 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:
Well form should dictate that, even though you admit that is not the criteria for selection in your opinion.
Form should come into it but it certainly shouldn't be the only criteria.
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1 hour ago, Copa said:
Double headers for Australian rules football could mean a fan of both matches is in the stadium for over 6 hours. That’s crazy.
I can't see how that would appeal to anyone. Thats not even just an AFL thing, I think exactly the same about RL triple and double headers.
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Just now, phiggins said:
Not so sure about the fudge. I don't think the capacity has been at 12k for a number of years now, going back to before IMG criteria came in, possibly since the trouble in the cup semi final.
I never stood in the North stand last year and felt you could realistically get another 900 or whatever the number is in there.
Its never needed to be, still doesn't need to be really. That's why I said it doesn't really matter. Im sure if demand continues to increase it will magically be lifted again by a few hundred, as it was for this fixture after two previous sellouts.
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10 minutes ago, Snowys Backside said:
LSVs capacity has been reduced to under 11k due to the concourse and the stage (which has already been mentioned).
I watched the Widnes and Cas Semi and the North Stand that Day was 'booming' with over 12000 in attendance. I am absolutely positive that more can be done to hit 11k if need be as unreserved seating reduces capacity too.
Irrespective, green shoots and all that, and as Long as Leigh can fill 3 sides to the stadium moving forward, plan B (improving home capacity) can only be questioned when the hardcore hits over 8k week in and week out. With the size of the Town, its some achievement and Wakefield too have done fantastically well.
Who said relegation doesn't work ?
It could be 12k and it could easily be more than the current restricted Leigh capacity. It's a fudge for IMG utilisation. Regardless it really doesn't matter, Leigh are getting good crowds and that's the important thing.
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2 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:
If you look back at what I said re Marshall and selecting him for the Ashes, it is his frame or lack of height that would worry me, the Aussie wingers are not just a bit taller than Marshall but appreciably taller and they have perfected getting under the high ball kick and chase with aplomb in how they time the catch arms outstretched above their heads and fully 3' - 00" of the floor, couple that with those who will deliver the kicks can land them on a sixpence.
I agree with you re Liam's attributes that you mention, but there are times when 'horses for courses' should be the order of the day and I strongly believe that the selection of the wingers should reflect this.
And your last sentance, was Friday not a big game 2nd v 4th and local bragging rights.
I agree and I have always said I wouldn't pick Marshall either. He is a solid SL winger but for me he's not top international level. I'd be picking the likes of Young and Johnstone over him any day of the week.
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14 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:
So taking away the seats lost to the stage approx 200, it wasn't a sell out?
It was a sell out in terms of what was available. The reduced capacity is supposedly due to the entertainment and I daresay there is some IMG fudging involved to give a greater utilisation score.
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AFLW is a money pit. Its a really interesting contrast to the NRLW which took a quite different approach and is going from strength to strength:
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15 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:
Matt, I obviously know what you did as an employee of Leigh Sports Village, but I was always under the impression that the capacity of the stadium was 12,000? I can recall two other attendances beating this Wigan games 10375, those two being WC '13 10544 Tonga v Cook Islands, and Championship '16 10,556 v Batley.
I did a quick count of what I considered the number of seats lost to the 'Sundecks Stage' prior to the game starting on Friday knowing it was reported a sell out and it was approx 200 which would tally with Friday being a sell out with the two other 'sell outs', just for curiosity is the stadiums official capacity around the 10,500 mark?
It is 12k, the record attendance is 12,005 for a CC semi final.
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Just now, Eddie said:
5 years ago Hull KR and Leigh wouldn’t have dreamed of 10k+ crowds, what those two clubs have done is phenomenal.
Its unbelievable and its been a pleasure to see how those two clubs have grown. I look forward to Wakefield joining them too as they continue to grow.
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Leeds have certainly built well again under Arthur after the poor Smith appointment and will be a force to reckon with in the play offs.
Overseas player allowance officially increased
in The General Rugby League Forum
Posted
I would say it's more like there aren't enough quality clubs if they want to go down this route.
That said I'd hate a 10 team SL and have always been vehemently against it. It would just bore me.