Dave T
-
Posts
45,897 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
296
Posts posted by Dave T
-
-
1 minute ago, Just Browny said:
I thought Emirates was good, although I seemed to strike gold with a walkable and affordable hotel and the attendance was disappointing.
I think I am a bit of a pessimist because I don't see us getting 50k+ in more than one game. If we got 120k+ on aggregate for three games that would be excellent and better than I can remember for a test series.
I'd wanted to go to Emirates for years and was ultimately disappointed, but I think that was really on the back of a lacklustre World Cup overall and turning up at another ground with zero event feel and huge empty stands.
I also travelled on my own which probably affected enjoyment somewhat, but I found the ground a little meh, and the transport links worse than I expected.
But I do think London can be a bit hit and miss like that. You can have the best weekend of your life or hate it. That one was a poor one.
-
1
-
-
5 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:
I know you are being serious here but you are definitely after a nibble from someone too…
… on a serious note, I would be gobsmacked if Everton want a rugby game on the pitch so soon after it opening.
Mate, Tranmere Rovers' ground is better than Anfield.
-
2
-
-
2 minutes ago, Damien said:
London provides the big opener and gets into the national conscience. For me it's a statement. It also gets the media on board, relatively speaking for RL, in a way we don't really get for other locations. That flows on to subsequent matches in my opinion.
London 2nd or 3rd up runs the risk too of Northern fans waiting and seeing what happens and potentially not bothering. Obviously if we won a game and a decider was in London it's different but it's a gamble that may backfire and we end up with a damp squib with fans not traveling.
Thinking about it some more I think I would still rather see a London test than not, particularly as we havent had one for so long, but for me it's not the optimum approach and comes with more risks, particularly if its a dead rubber decider.
I defo wouldn't have it 3rd, but I think 2nd is fine, and potentially better.
But I'd probably focus on warmup and getting something going there rather than worrying too much about 1st or 2nd test for London.
-
1 minute ago, gingerjon said:
If you want a very minor positive ... Five Live included it in their round up sporting action taking place yesterday. During the Sunday morning show it was along the lines of, "We'll have a preview of England v Samoa, which you can watch on BBC Two later, and not forgetting that Scotland and Ireland are also playing for a full programme of international rugby league."
Thanks, that's cheered me up
-
3
-
-
10 minutes ago, WN83 said:
I just hope to god we don't find out it's on and they then stick with Headingley, Wigan and Saints/Warrington/Huddersfield. It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest because this current lot seem to be happy to do things on a shoe string and not have to put any work in.
That isn't based on anything.
Every series including Aus v NZ has used marquee grounds for years now. Wembley, Olympic St, Anfield, Elland Rd, Manchester City etc.
The last Ashes had Spurs, Bolton and Elland Rd booked.
-
14 minutes ago, MrPosh said:
Spurs is pretty easy for people who know that London has railways, as well as the Tube.
Haven't been yet, the 2020 Ashes would have been my first trip.
-
1
-
-
6 minutes ago, Damien said:
I think a 60k London venue i.e Spurs or Etihad is a decent target and a good statement of intent that we are going big. Even at that it would be a push to sellout but over 45k would be great. It has to be the opener though.
Elland Road is a safe choice. In terms of big stadiums it's relatively small at 37k and should sell out.
Everton or the Etihad are both 52/53k and I think we would do well at both as the North West venue.
I do think 120k across the 3 games is a very achievable goal and this follows the tried and tested approach. If God forbid we won the opener then all gloves are off and the other two games sellout I think.
Agree with all of the above, but I do have one challenge on this point. This is quoted quite a lot and I'm not sure it's true tbh. I haven't fully developed my view on this but I'm mot convinced it needs to be the opener.
The history of London crowds appears a little random, but I'm not sure it's as random as we think.
Whilst it is true that the 1990 and 1994 Ashes series kicked off at Wembley, it's important to remember that they were part of long tours. By the time we played the Aussies in front of 54k in 1990, they'd played in front of 70k fans in England, including 25k for a match versus Wigan. It was broadly the same in 1994.
The atmosphere has been boosted by that game yesterday, it's probably fair to say that there is no better promotion than playing matches. Where we have started cold (1995 WC, 1997 Ashes and 2000 WC) for example we have had low crowds. With that in mind, I'm not against London being the 2nd Test, but even better would be a high profile warmup or two to create a buzz.
-
1
-
-
22 minutes ago, OriginalMrC said:
By every metric this game has been a disaster for Scotland. The low crowd won't have even covered expenses and they got well beaten by an Ireland side who weren't full strength.
At risk of sounding like broken record these games need to be played in Scotland. They need to have a base and get local businesses and sponsors on board. Engage local volunteers and work with clubs in Scotland so that they get everyone moving in the right direction.
There's no reason why they can't aim to sell a few thousand tickets, sell out hospitality and make it a day out for RL fans in Scotland. As it stands games like this are contributing to the death of the game in Scotland.
It was a bizarre fixture. To clash it with the England game was weird.
I've been to a few Scotland games in Scotland and they've all had bigger crowds than this.
But hey, something about a restart.
-
4
-
-
1 minute ago, sam4731 said:
When booking tickets, people aren't planning there route post match. Their planning how to get there.
What's that based on? Why do you think people don't plan on getting home?
-
1
-
-
3 minutes ago, sam4731 said:
For me, what the Emirates major selling point over Spurs is that it's right on top off a tube station. Much more accessible.
My only memory of that was that it was absolute chaos after the match with 40k in.
I just walked from there to Euston instead.
-
5 minutes ago, DoubleD said:
I know Shaun Wane has high standards, and understand his point that he wants improvement, but to say that performance wouldn't trouble Australia is nonsense...............he clearly hasn't seen Australia play in the past couple of years.
It wouldn't trouble an Australian team from years gone by, but I would reckon that performance would have beaten Australia today
I also think that it's all just a little small time RL thinking. We don't have to benchmark everything to Australia. We're playing Samoa, analyse the match based on the opposition and what we've done and need to do.
We don't give this match and opposition the credibility and respect it deserves by talking about other opposition.
-
7
-
1
-
-
4 minutes ago, Dunbar said:
Now, do I join in this thread or wait for the next one when it changes again. Or the one after that!
Wait for the England v Cook Islands (LSV) thread.
-
1 minute ago, Father Gascoigne said:
This would certainly be a fantastic opportunity to use the stadium for the first time. Diehards all across Merseyside and Lancashire would go just for the novelty factor.
I'm really liking the looks of this ground, would be great to have another prestigious option in the area that's bigger than Wigan/Bolton and better than Anfield.
I'd like to think that Everton are more open to events to than some other Premier aleafue clubs.
-
2
-
1
-
-
14 minutes ago, sam4731 said:
Foe me it's a no brainer. Take the 3 highest attendances for the world cup and translate this onto the series.
GW 1: St James's Park
GW2: Emirates
GW3: OT
Emirates was a horrible event tbh, and I'd argue seriously underperformed. Spurs or Wembley really.
-
1
-
-
2 minutes ago, gingerjon said:
Going on 'vibes' at this point. 50k feels like a minimum and 60k a decent challenge.
On this point, we do have a huge problem in that because of a lack of any consistency and continuity we are starting from scratch pretty much every time. And that won't be any different next year. That doesn't mean we cant get good crowds, but it will make it much harder for the new marketing director and team to work their magic.
In the last 15 years or so in London we've peaked at 67k, but we've also dropped as low as 35k for the Aussies. Every ticket sale has to be worked for in RL, we don't have an established fan base that give us an instant 30k sales for a game like this. Things like stadium selection, kick off time, fixture clashes with other sports etc. have a huge impact.
All our own fault I would add.
-
1
-
-
Just now, gingerjon said:
Going on 'vibes' at this point. 50k feels like a minimum and 60k a decent challenge target.
Obviously, right now, the key thing is to go back to @GeordieSaint's point.
This is somebody having to make the best of a shambles. There's no point having a set calendar if you just get it out of the drawer every few months and go, "Hang on, did no one realise we're expected to host two major events in two years? Better get that fixed."
What is slightly frustrating for me personally is that yesterday me and my wife actually discussed potentially visiting Oz next year, and tying it in with the Ashes.
But then I suppose I'd never be so stupid as to take RL authorities at their word when they say something is happening.
-
2
-
-
Just now, The Masked Poster said:
Well we managed to get 67k (?) at Wembley for the 2013 SF, which had a decent publicity drive, including then London Mayor Boris Johnson. It CAN be done if the will is there.
Now, this might seem weird, but I'm also talking about pitching the game to people who have never been to a game of RL in their lives! New people! They might have heard of RL but never been, so market the all conquering Kangaroos being in town as a big deal. Never mind the NFL, get a load of this!! Hype it up, don't play it down mumbling and staring at our shoes.
Or maybe throw our hands on the air and decide that people like that (let's call them the events crowd) just aren't interested in RL and accept our lot.That was a World Cup semi final with exceptional circumstances.
Wembley is huge, too big imo, but we should be able to get a very good crowd in.
But just because the capacity is 90k doesn't mean the market is 90k at this stage.
-
1 minute ago, gingerjon said:
No. But 60k at Wembley would not be a disaster, especially if it could be an evening game under lights. Similarly 40-45k at Spurs or the Emirates.
But if the wish is to recreate three sellouts across the M62 then that's more than doable but wouldn't have the impact/reach of a non heartlands opener.
Not that I think this is the instant solution to the game's ills that some seem to think it is, I should add. We've had Australia over here in many forms and still lost crowds, money and sponsors during enough of those times to be realistic.
50k plus would be great and achievable. 60k would be amazing and would beat that 57k in 1994.
-
8 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:
If this rumour is true, it is a great example of why the international game is a mess. It’s treated as an afterthought with no concrete plans maintained and delivered.
Anyway, if it does happen, there should be a game in the NW (Liverpool or Manchester), a game in London, and a game in Yorkshire (Leeds).
A perfect lineup would be Spurs, Man City and Elland Rd.
Although Newcastle and Everton would be very good choices.
I'd expect Spurs, Bolton and Elland Rd which was the 2020 plan.
-
3
-
-
6 minutes ago, The Masked Poster said:
I disagree. If (big word in RL I know) they grasp the baton early enough and really run with it, they could well fill Wembley for such a prestigious sporting team as the Kangaroos.
Note: if they announce it next September and have a few adverts in League Express, then sell tickets via a club *and* restrict the choice of tickets, then it will not be quite the same. But if it's confirmed....start the build up then, no messing.
And before someone mentions budgets, things like SM campaigns can be done very cheaply, if not free.There is not a cat in hells chance that we would get 90k. There is no evidence we would, it's based on zero.
-
1
-
-
8 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:
Could it have been at England’s request?
Even if this is solely at the behest of the NRL, you can’t even see that the NRL might be making a positive decision for the benefit of the international game. Maybe the NRL are seeking to correct what they think is a mistake in the current international schedule up to 2028.
Its just another opportunity for you to have a crack at the NRL.
I'm not sure why you're portraying this as such a positive. An Ashes next year was always in plan, so what are we meant to be thankful to the NRL for?
-
4
-
-
22 minutes ago, whatmichaelsays said:
I get the point @Dave T is making about whether or not free tickets should be something we discuss, but I think it is fair to question whether international RL has the sort of "value" to make it commercially viable. Last year we had elite athletes being told that they had to fly economy class from Sydney to play in an international series to keep costs low, and this year we had a whole "will they? won't they?" saga around Samoa that I'm sure wouldn't have happened if the series was financially viable and lucrative.
I think the point about freebies and the Wigan approach is well worthy of discussion, but in the post-mortem where we assess and benchmark versus other games I don't think it works.
Wigan using tickets as a reward for season ticket holders is a weird one, a little unorthodox, but it is similar in reality to a commercial partner giving tickets away to staff, guests or customers. But I don't think it's a particularly impressive tactic tbh and does leave us open to criticism.
But we shouldn't mark today's crowd with an asterisk in the same way as we wouldn't call other games out where people have had free tickets from BetFred or similar.
My main challenge around the crowd size tbh is that we do seem unable to matrrially grow an event. I often make the point that our Magic Weekends are broadly in line with where we started, and today's crowd was broadly in line with last year. I can't believe that we always hit our potential market in year one of every event.
Wigan generally does better than St Helens, yet the crowd wasn't significantly higher, in reality no growth was delivered.
-
1
-
-
17 minutes ago, graveyard johnny said:
why would it be locked? because we are debating the merits of the 2 match series and we have different opinions?
2 minutes ago, Fevrover said:You know what they say ' It's alright having an opinion so long as it's same as mine' lol.
It's the match thread. Pining for games against Australia has nowt to do with this match.
-
4
-
1
-
-
1 minute ago, gingerjon said:
Okay - I'll say what was said elsewhere: it seemed that everything being done to push sales and engagement for the game was being done by Wigan. That's why I mentioned freebies.
That's fair, but freebies are not a new thing, there will have been some in that Saints game last year, and some in that 13k for the Pacific Final last year. I think when we review these things and compare, we can only really go off attendance figs announced.
On Wigan pushing this. I don't 100% agree. Their site was pushing memberships and Vegas, and the free tickets thing was a bit buried really. A little like the other SL clubs in the area were pushing memberships and fireworks!
Sun 27th Oct: Men's International: England v Samoa KO 2.30pm (BBC Two)
in The General Rugby League Forum
Posted · Edited by Dave T
This is a bit stalkery. I must have posted about Newman maybe twice in my life and you've wrote this both times.
You've clearly mistaken me for somebody else, but are intent on making yourself look silly despite having this pointed out previously.