Dave T

It is a red-herring to just think it is entertainment. That's why I used the words I did around fan engagement and experience, and you are right, that encompasses an awful lot of activity that is nothing to do with matchdays.

Good stuff at Warrington.

He's already told us - at the side of the A580!

Many sport events that do far better than us make an effort. Fan engagement and experience has become huge for major sporting organisations and the events they stage. We seem to have backtracked on it all and have gone back to basics. We are seeing the results of that - both the Challenge Cup Finals and Grand Final crowds are in decline, as is Magic Weekend.

I wonder if they've ever considered putting a roof on it?

I feel like you make these stories up to just get people to mention trains

They were held at The Lowry in 2019, I expect they will be held somewhere different next year.

I was at a loose end on Saturday, and didn't bother to jump on the 17 minute train to Manchester to watch this live, choosing to have a couple of beers at home and watch it. Nothing compelled me to attend this event. I think the ground is terrible, in a horrible part of town with little round it. It looks far better on TV than in the ground. I'm in that age bracket and have had some good times there, but there is little doubt that it is becoming less fun as an event.

For those who always make out that the likes of football just put the event on. Man City Kids Fanzone | Manchester City F. C.

I suspect this is one of the ways we justify the proposition we provide. We ask those who attend and then give them that, and then wonder why we are not tapping into the new populations. I think one of the challenges I have is what does the SL Grand Final stand for, what is it trying to be - because we keep hearing all this talk of a family event (and the IMG guy I linked to here highlighted the fans mixing point) - but then we ignore the fact that there is nothing on for families at all - and it is usually an event full of drunks, and there is a fair amount of anti-social behaviour. I'm not convinced that any of the decision makers genuinely know what this event is like at ground level. It isn't that fun, and isn't that friendly. Sure, you can go and have an amazing time, but that can be said of anywhere that has sport, beer and a load of fans. But those staging the event are not really adding to it. Your last line isn't entirely accurate either. There is no reason why the broadcaster won't show the entertainment. Sky usually at least show clips of what is going on, the last time they actually spent any real time with the entertainment though was when James performed and the atmosphere was great. But the BBC are likely to show the WC Welcome this year, the Aussies show their entertainment, and we have done so before. They don't show what we do now because its pants. But even if they don't explicitly show it, sometimes even just seeing a major event happening in the background of the pre-match interviews etc. shows people sitting at home that this is a major fun event that they may be interested in. And this isn't just about hiring a good band, although music is a natural fit. In reality, it is done on the cheap, while the plebs get drunk and the decision makers enjoy their champagne in the lounges.

Indeed. We should just accept our place as cheap Rugby and a budget sport for those who can't afford football. We really can present ourselves how we want to. I don't see how any fan would argue against trying to improve the entertainment package for fans. Rather depressingly at the RLWC forum last week, when asked about fanzones etc. Dutton explained they will have one at Newcastle and everywhere else it's up to the host town to do something if they want. He then went on about funding the women and wheelchair tournaments and how proud he was of that and would rather spend the money there. I think that sounded great in his head, but the counter to that is that it shouldn't be either or. And ultimately what he was talking about was fan experience, which really should be right at the very top of what they are trying to deliver. Based on the high pricing and poor ticket experience, I can't help but feel that fans are way down the list for Dutton.

Why was this one in Brisbane? Are there covid issues in PNG?

I think your last line is spot on. About a great number of things, not just this point.

What was the reason Terry O'Connor brought the trophy? Was it simply because he played in the 1st HF, and presumably they didn't have to pay his travel as he was already in the stadium? If you were going to pay homage to that first GF, surely Jason Robinson was the obvious choice, and he links nicely to the RLWC as an ambassador too?

I'm not so sure it's quite as black and white as that, we do see a lot of links back to Irish ancestry for example. I think it's just a bit of a less modern approach to life - and I don't know if that is a reflection of the nationalistic thinking of England, maybe one that led to Brexit etc. (I won't discuss that more and get it moved to politics). As you know, I lived in Scotland for over a decade, it was my home, its where I met my wife, my daughter was born there - I would have felt immense pride in representing Scotland if I was talented at owt. Scotland will always be an important part of my identity even if I never visited there again now I live back in England.

This is one of IMG's guys.

I think they probably did show them what they can do.

I think some people genuinely struggle to understand people representing anything other than their nation of birth, or the allegiance people can feel, and pride from representing their family, or their new home nation. As with many things nowadays, nationality is more fluid and nuanced and I think some people don't like that. I can understand it to an extent, despite strongly disagreeing, but we can't allow these people to hold us back on this.

Good summary mate, pretty much agree with every word.

Presentation of events is poor and I think is something for IMG to go at. I was thinking whilst watching on TV how tired it all looked tbh (I loved the match). I thought the branding looked cheap and garish (garish can be good). One of the things that stood out for me was the music choices for key moments are basically identical to 20 years ago (for example Right Here, Right Now by Fatboy Slim was released 23 years ago). None of it feels contemporary. It feels like a bunch of old men are arranging a toddlers birthday party.

They seem obsessed with unfolding banners, I've grumbled about this for years. I can go to a laundrette and see that. I'm not sure why they think it's entertainment.

I think the reason for a lower crowd than normal is a bit of a perfect storm. - Cost of living - the narrative around energy bills is challenging, and it is now that we are receiving emails about prices going up next week and people are thinking of turning heating on. - Saints 4th time on the bounce - there is a natural shift with regularity of the same teams. That can't be avoided. I often make the point that those first couple of Wembley trips for Wire saw us take seemingly the whole town (probably 25k plus in reality), whereas I expect it was closer to 15k the last time, even against Saints. - World Cup - theast WC year here saw Wire v Wigan attract only 64k without some of the other factors. - No entertainment - I was free and available to go last night, but holding my money for the World Cup. A decent event may have made me jump on a train and have a couple of beers and go. They made no effort to get me off my sofa. I've been to a few finals as neutral. I'd be more worried if I was looking at that gate clueless as to how we could grow things, or wondering why there were so many empty seats. But this does ultimately fall to RL to fix - we need to do things differently to counter many of the above.

We will also see what Smith does too. I'm sure James Lowes even did well at Wire on a short term basis.

It's not unusual for the GF to have empty seats in the upper tiers. The big difference tonight appeared to be in premium neutral seats. The lower bowl is normally at capacity. That suggests the cost of living crisis and the world cup comes into play.

They sold out their first batch, which means nowt really, that's standard.