Dave T

In reality there are quite a lot of root causes, I suppose it depends how far back we want to go and how wide we want to think. But, IMO, the main root cause of why we underperformed (let's wrap it as that), is due to fundamentally poor leadership and weak governance that hasn't allowed the game to make the right decisions. Not having a team in Birmingham is an outcome of this, not a root cause. Without resolving leadership and governance challenges we will never maximise our potential. And that isn't to ignore expansion, great leadership wouldn't have messed about with silly things like PSG, they'd have had proper vision for growth and implemented initiatives properly.

I think this is right when speaking to most people, but not BP. But not being in certain territories isn't a root cause, its an outcome, it has its own root cause. I also think it is very important to remember that these discussions usually talk about "RL" when in reality we are talking about the UK RL comp.

Well it depends what question you are trying to answer. You are searching for some weird utopia where RL is like football played all over the world, in reality we are a sport like many others fighting for our corner of the market and being the best we can. We can't just be a different thing, we can work on looking differently and being better than we are, but it's like putting the root cause of your house being valued poorly as because it is not in Malibu Beach.

The game in the UK can get more money without completely trashing the existing game and making up 12 big city teams though. Asking and answering the wrong questions is an issue. As this thread has highlighted, we have had many of these sponsors in the past - that suggests it is more than just what clubs we have in SL as that hasn't really changed.

I wish you'd have mentioned this before....

I don't think there needs to be a hero's and a villains argument at play here. A commercial national governing body shouldn't be running the world game. They should be focusing on their remit.

We are notoriously bad at retaining sponsors. We have very very few that get involved in multiple sponsors. I really think this is where an international calendar is crucial. You can't really sign up sponsors for long terms as there are lean years in between world cups. But even locally, to turn only one of those new sponaors into a UK sponsor (Specsavers) is poor.

A really disappointing element of the women's game of RL is that we have the same sponsors. Women's sport is a real opportunity to tap into new audiences and partners. Our approach is to lump sponsorships in with the men's game and play the games as pre-match entertainment for the men's games.

Agreed. Focusing on root cause is really important. I often think we try to 'fix' the wrong thing.

GoDaddy, EZE Group, Laurent-Perrier, Specsavers, getthelabel.com, Moss Bros, National Lottery, Marriott, Hertz, Wales, Gullivers Sports Travel, Programmemaster, Wooden Spoon, Ticketmaster, Steeden, Centurion, BOC, Vivomed, Heartsine, Singha, Gatorade, Thirsty Planet and MyClubBetting.com. According to a Google link this was the panel of sponsors - I know this wasn't the final list.

Yes, I did mean to mention players. We really are an unfriendly, ungrateful, snivelling bunch of toxic morons at times, generally speaking.

On things like this, I think somebody referred to Tissot (it may have been you) - but done well, these things can really stick. Tissot were probably one of the highest profile sponsors that we all remember that were involved - and I expect their deal was really modest. At the World Cup in 2013 we had really professional presentation of the sponsors - we used the big screens to great effect for example, and many announcements in the ground were sponsored. TBH, what all this screams of is lack of resource over anything else. There is nobody who is responsible for just making sure this stuff gets done - I've worked for organisations before where it is all about return on investment and then forgetting about some of the softer things (or rather things that are seen as softer things rather than a core part of your proposition).

Agreed - and the Papa Johns sponsorship tbh is a bit of a case study in how toxic our game can be at times. I have rarely seen such negativity around a sponsorship deal (maybe the Stobart deal) - but for the RL media, fans and others to so actively and publicly criticise a partnership was not helpful. The deal may have seemed small time, but sometimes these things can grow on an intitial deal - and I think sometimes as fans we need to stop and think about the harm we can do to the game.

There are clearly differences in product placement acceptance between Aus and the UK, but there is definitely something in the OP. As a sport we struggle to get sponsors, yet in reality we should be able to offer a hell of a lot to sponsors, we should be more flexible than anyone. We have opportunities for sponsorships all over our assets, yet we have gone backwards. Where is the sponsor logo on the ball that we had? Where is the man of the match sponsor? Where is the VR sponsor? Where is the Magic Weekend sponsor? Where are the pitch sponsors? Which company sponsors the clock and stats on TV coverage? Where are the sponsors when going to ad breaks on Sky and C4? These are all indicators of two things. Firstly, that times are hard, sponsorship has dried up, we aren't the only comp reliant on people like Betfred. Secondly, that we are performing poorly and seemingly offer little.

To be fair, this thread isn't really about that point. They can choose who they want for their Origin games, they are not IRL sanctioned games. The discussion is about the NRL running the international game.

There isn't enough money in the game right now to do anything different. No one has money within the game just hanging around free to spend. That's why we need to secure additional funding.

This is right. I do think people should be clear that they are talking potential rather than making claims of tangible benefits when often they are not there. Some of the benefits of initiatives could take a decade, maybe even longer to be recognised, which isn't a problem in itself, but we should be honest about that.

Well that is where the game needs to work out if it wants to do it or not. They can create conditions that may make it more attractive to investors. If licensing is to return, offering an investor the opportunity of a London franchise is within our gift. Ultimately we can make that as attractive as we decide - protection, funding levels, support at grassroots etc. But it would need private investment, and if that couldn't be sourced, then so be it. Just because Broncos are a thing doesn't mean its good enough for SL.

I can't help but feel London Broncos are done as a top flight club. I think London RL would need a relaunch if we were to elavate them to the top division. For me, the Broncos are damaged goods, a small club now.

Yes, so NH teams travel to the SH in Summer and SH teams travel North in winter.

At last, somebody prepared to tackle the real issues!!!

The insularity of national governing bodies is the reason why it is important to have a strong independent International Board. These governing bodies should have a seat at the table, absolutely, but it should not be left to the Aussies to grow the game in PNG or Fiji, just as it shouldn't be left to the RFL to grow the game in France or Canada. There should be a healthy level of tension that balances the international games' interests.

The statement about excel is a bit of a play to the crowds too. He referenced a piece of software that people knew to attack the competence of those before him - it buys him some time and breathing space. And tbh, I work for a major financial services provider, and if I asked our finance guys for our budget today, I'd be getting it in an excel file.

I expect there was a great deal of artist license in Grants comments there. It allows him to claim he made significant improvements, but not really the stuff you can see.

That's why I think we should base ourselves in one hemisphere for each window (broadly speaking). That way we guarantee games being played in each hemisphere every year and it does help to keep together groups of players, reducing travel requirements.