Dave T

I think there are probably only 20 teams with real potential at the moment, I'd have had 2 x 10 in the first phase. I think it would have allowed for more intense games throughout and a better funding structure than with 24 teams - where I still think many will be making up the numbers. After 18 rounds this could have become a top 6 with home and away. I understand the issue with repeat fixtures, but the fact is that whilst a repeat Saints v Wigan game (for example) may have a lower crowd than their original game, it would still be a bigger draw for fans and broadcasters than Saints v Cas (no disrespect to Cas).

I used to manage a sales team. I would often focus my attention on the lower and middle level performers as there is more opportunity for them to deliver more than focusing solely on the top players. I don't see how the likes of Warrington and Wigan are being neglected. The TV rights are going for record sums, sponsorship is a struggle, but then there is a valid viewpoint that the creation of a more exciting league will help that (plus we are expecting a sponsor to be announced this year). There have been many decisions over recent years that have appeared to be weighted in favour of the big clubs, dual registration, restructure of academies etc. so I hardly think the sole focus is on the smaller clubs. I don't how the 3x8 excludes the top clubs. They will play more games against the better teams, hopefully leading to bigger crowds and more intense games. I personally wish they'd gone even further and more radical tbh.

I think the Championship becomes slightly cloudy, as basically you are playing for promotion, but the objective of SL doesn't really change. You start the season aiming to make the top 8 playoff and win the thing. Now though, if you miss the playoffs it isn;t season over, you have to fight for your life to avoid relegation.

Really? They think they are in?

Speaking from personal experience of me and my friends and family, people budget in for their season tickets. Some get these as Christmas gifts. There is also the element of spreading the cost over a few months and the fact that you are getting a discount. People can afford season tickets, where some draw the line is the ADDITIONAL £60 per game (and for any team to win the playoffs it will be a minimum of 2 extra home games and a Final in the space of 4 weeks). It can cost around £540 for a family ticket at Warrington.

I said crowds are not that bad. I didn;t say they hold up.

Do you know that it's not that important? Warrington have 6 different prices to watch them from the South Stand this year as an adult. ST Renewal = £15.85 per game Early Bird = £17.31 per game ST = £18.77 per game Half ST = £17.50 per game Pre-match = £19.50 per game Matchday = £20.50 per game Some tickets give you 3 free matches, some 2, some 1, some none. People will buy them. Put together a package that gives value, I would expect that price sensitivity with season tickets is not a massive issue. If it's an issue simply add a certain amount and if you don't get a home game, give it as discount of next year's, or even off a shirt. Really quite minor 'issues'.

That isn't the real problem. People are interested in the playoffs. They usually get good tv crowds and the crowds are not that bad. If you have a season ticket you have probably paid £15 per game per adult and £3 per junior ticket. This £36 for 4 often becomes over £60 now for a game. Add to this that the 8 team playoff means that you can have 4 consecutive all-pay games if you get to the GF, it is no wonder that people save their money and watch on TV. It is not that they are not interested. Playoffs are not the issue - the structure leading to more all-pay games is. This new structure potentially fixes that.

Ok. Charge £20 more per adult season ticket than now. This represents less than a 10% price increase despite a minimum of 1 extra game and I expect the number of people walking away because of this cost to be negligible. The trend of having direct debits and spread payments means that the actual price has become less important for many. Some DD schemes have even charged interest. People are paid to work this out, it's really not that difficult.

You set a price that people will pay that will bring in the required income. The prices are quite varied between clubs for current season tickets, in fact that are varied within a club due to renewals, early birds etc. The prices are pretty much made up anyway.

14 guaranteed home games. You may get 15, but 14 are guaranteed.

Yup, it wasn't my phrase.

I think it is clear that the zombie reference is about clubs where they have little to play for and just go through the motions. If this new proposal comes in there is no way you can just go through the motions. Surely you can appreciate that this may be more vibrant and attractive to some?

I think you are right, but then I do think that is good value. I suspect that after 23 rounds if you have been losing the majority of these, I think you'll enjoy the battle of the playoffs where you are playing for your SL future.

So the onus is on clubs to sell season ticket. No difference to now. Still don't understand how this is going to make things worse.

We also haven't heard what will happen with gate money. IIRC at the moment playoff games go into a shared pot. Who has said this won't happen with the extended playoffs from 2015 - therefore stopping the rich getting richer?

It depends on how they are sold. Season tickets can be sold based on current rates - 13/14 home games. I'd be stunned if this is voted in and we suddenly get a price reduction in Season Tickets and we drop to 11 home games. Playoffs can't currently be included in season tickets as there are no guarantees you will be in them, now this is guaranteed.

All 12 teams will play 23 games in Super League. The bottom 4 will then play in playoffs against lower teams instead of their season just ending. I'm not sure why you think that will widen the gap between the top 8 and bottom 4. They should still be looking to make improvements for the following year in just the same way as happens now.

What is the cap in the KPC? I thought it was £300k, how can 12 full time players be accommodated under that?

The interest that the clubs you name should have is of a more vibrant competitive league that attracts more fans, sponsors and tv money. Now this solution may not deliver that, but then again it may, if Warrington for example believe that this will give the game a shot in the arm, then that should have benefits to Warrington etc. too. It is in everyone's interests that the game thrives. I think people are over-stating the 3x8 thing, including you in the above post. Super League will be a 12 team competition. At the end of the regular rounds there will then be a longer playoff series. The non-qualifiers of the SL Playoffs will then drop into their own playoffs involving the top Champ teams. This will be instead of their season just coming to an end. The structure changes are not that radical imo, certainly now they are playing full home and away before any split.

That's a bit out of order. I like the idea too and I don't support Featherstone.

But a vote to go to 12 would reduce the number of games against the lower teams, not the vote to have the 3x8 playoffs. I suspect that would be an easy vote, but Hetherington and others are interested in the 'jeopardy' element (I hate that phrase!) that the SL/Cham 1 Playoffs bring.

Whilst opinion polls of fans/customers can help to shape thinking, they should not be used solely to make decisions. Actual behaviours are more important - ie. will fans actually stop going to games if their non-preferred solution is implemented. If they will all still go, then the poll should in effect be ignored if other benefits (TV deal, sponsorship etc) is beneficial. If you ran a poll next week asking if the overseas quota should remain at 5 or drop to zero, I suspect the zero answer would win handsomely but it doesn't mean it is the right thing to do.

I'm not sure it's fair to say there is no strong leadership, I'd disagree with that. Now we may all agree or disagree with the actual solutions proposed, but the RFL have managed to bring a very controversial proposal to life and get around 30 of the 38 clubs to support it so far. If they get this voted in, personally I would say that has been quite decisive and strong leadership to make some pretty major changes within the game. The fact that P&R has already been voted back in suggests that the bigger SL clubs are not interested in a small closed-shop SL, and the likes of Gary Hetherington are publicly supporting the radical changes.

...orkington?