Dave T
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Posts posted by Dave T
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39 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:
Yeah, I got to thinking, would we have seen the pull outs from Samoa if they were in fact playing in a four nations with Aus, NZ and Tonga. I suspect not.
It’s a long club season. I can actually appreciate a NRL players mindset being “ugh now a four weeks in camp and travelling to the other side of the world, getting paid pennies to play against England in two tests in front of smaller crowds than I am used to in the club game. My injury is feeling that little bit more debilitating now.”
Simply, the international game is too low profile and my guess is we can expect to see consistent withdrawals for NRL players to participate in cross hemisphere tours.
What comes first, chicken or egg?
I don’t think more internationals is the answer to our problems. I think the answer is higher profile internationals and less of them if it needs to be.
Give me Aus v England once (or twice) at a WC and again once (or twice) in a highly promoted Six Nations and until those fixtures are drawing 60k each time, that will do me.
There are a few problems with your last para. Firstly, I'm not sure just wanting 60k crowds means that it's the right number to demand.
Secondly, to build up our internationals we do need to be playing more of them more regularly. We don't need to pretend that we are starting from scratch again and that we aren't good enough for the likes of Samoa and Tonga.
Without people bring committed to growing the international game, we won't see Sanoa playing in events like the World Cup opener in Newcastle, or the semi final at Arsenal, or the WC Final in front of 67k at Old Trafford. These are the kind of opportunities that the international game in England offers.
The top level international games had grown to a decent level, where we can get 40k+ to a big international in London and 25k-35k+ in other grounds. These are events, and growing the likes of Samoa and Tonga into these sized events is part of the development now.
For nations that do not even stage their own internationals, the likes of Samoa have been part of some major international events in Oz, NZ and England. The players need to do their bit.
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Just now, Exiled Wiganer said:
It’s only Monday, it will sell out. I did read that the capacity is only 69k this year, which is a pity. Am glad nether side has any disciplinary issues. Hopefully it’ll be 13 v 13 from start to finish.
What's the story in that capacity reduction?
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Looking at the plans, if they are all on sale maybe there are around 6-7k maximum still available. It looks like HKR haven't sold anything in the North Top Tier, but they have opened it (every other row), although that may just be because Wigan have sold enough to have to open the stand anyway. It looks like there pretty much isn't really too much left in that Wigan end at all. A couple of blocks in the quadrant.
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3 minutes ago, Henson Park Old Firm said:
I think, to boost the GF crowd every year is too model it on the NRL.
Have the women's, wheel chair grand final played on the day also.
Or even have league 1 or Championship promotion game played at Old Trafford (granted that IMG are against promotion/relegation)
I think you could pull a good crowd every year. I do understand that Man Utd might not want more damage to the pitch.
Generally speaking - the Grand Final does pull a great crowd every year, and it pretty much always looks good at Old Trafford. I don't see any need to play more games on the day tbh.
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46 minutes ago, Worzel said:
Yes that's already been done. We're on to the 3rd release of coach capacity now after the club has sourced some more this afternoon. But looking at the pattern of sales I think Rovers have sold what they'll sell. Probably 1,500 left.
The top tier of the Alex Ferguson stand is now on sale though. Only had the front half of middle blocks on sale this morning, now it's all of them - the back half of the middle, and alternate rows on the side. Reckon that might all go so we could even get over 70,000.
Good times!
Is Rhodri Jones the most wishy washy speaker we have ever had in a prominent role in RL?
A fortnight ago this was on the SL website:
And with pre-sales at their strongest level for years, the Grand Final is virtually guaranteed to have an attendance in excess of 65,000 for the first time since 2017.
Today, on Total RL Jones said:
“Crowd expectation is 65000 mark is definitely achievable.”
That is far less cocksure than the earlier statement.
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9 minutes ago, gingerjon said:
It is perfectly reasonable. We can debate how reasonable it is (it isn't) that when you only have two home internationals that you play those in the only parts of the country able to pick and choose which top level RL they want to watch. We can also debate how reasonable it is (it isn't) that you add your sole women's international to one of those games after already value tickets for the men's match have gone on sale. And, lastly, we can debate how reasonable it is (it isn't) to have an international as ineptly put together as the mid season shambles in Toulouse.
The bigger criticism over Autumn internationals was last year for me, three tests all within 50 or 60 miles was a shambles and we got the results it deserved.
I think most people are probably agreed that a suitable system for Autimn internationals is NE, NE and London (or as a minimum non-traditional).
I'm not even gonna go into Womens tests or Feb pre-match entertainment.
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31 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:
That’s worse than my Kangaroos idea
No. I still think it trumps your idea
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32 minutes ago, gingerjon said:
The criticism, completely valid now by the way so I’ll make it without referencing whippets, is that literally everything that happens in rugby league now happens in, and for the benefit of, a smallish number of people in the same communities over and over again.
Yup. You won't get much disagreement with that point. It doesn't however mean that everything that is happening in that space is bad. What is bad is the omission of good stuff in the other places.
It's perfectly reasonable that England play internationals in Wigan and Leeds and Toulouse in 2024, what's disappointing is that don't play even more, including London.
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26 minutes ago, Archie Gordon said:
The trouble with this is that it ignores the direction of travel: that shows a near complete retreat from London hosting test matches, the end of OTR games, French clubs paying a bond to enter the CC, Catalan having travel costs imposed on them, WotR suggested as the mid-season rep game, Goole Vikings joining L1, and so on.
I'm not sure that those of us pointing this out are attacking Northern RL fans. It's more a disillusionment with the game seeming to want to exclude anyone too far away from the M62 when - as you make clear - it wasn't always this way.
People highlighting specifics isn't what is being pulled as attacking Northerners. There are very many valid criticisms of our approach - including some of those you raise above - although I'd challenge that this is a one-sided list.
It is perfectly reasonable to be frustrated with lack of activity in London without then taking that to the level of criticising everything that is happening in the North of England. Which is what some people are doing.
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2 hours ago, Click said:
SL has had numerous on the road games over the years.
Where was the outrage when Hull and Wigan played a game in Australia?
Indeed. It's nonsense to continue the attacks against Northern RL fans.
SL has admitted teams into the league from Paris, Gateshead, London, Toronto, Perpignan, Bridgend - it has staged games in Cardiff, Swansea, Barcelona, Edinburgh, Leicester, Wollongong, is going to Vegas and so on. When has Leicester Tigers ever brought a game to Wigan?
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On 04/10/2024 at 22:15, Anita Bath said:
Aussies have little interest in seeing the kangaroos win yet another tournament. Now if the kiwis were to win 40-50% of games against kangaroos ( or GB/England provide the same sort of competition) then I expect the interest and crowds would be much better. 1 world cup in the last 50 years won by another team. Is there any other sport with such dominance at the national team level?
Ah, the lack of competitiveness point returns.
In the last 20 years, the Aussies have featured in 13 tournaments and have won 8 of them. Definitely the dominant team - but the Kiwis have won 5 of the tournaments, and the Aussies have even lost against Tonga in recent years. They've won a World Cup Final in Brisbane 6 v 0.
This dominance argument was being used during the 80's and 90's and then despite losing more tournaments in recent years it is still trotted out.
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It made me quite sad seeing the Kangaroos squad that has just been announced. I know nostalgia will be at play here, but despite watching more regular NRL than when I was a kid, the names on that list just seem so unfamiliar and lacking.
I'm conscious that some of that will be a reflection of my watching habits and stuff, but in the 1980s when I started watching RL, the Kangaroos played 87 games (including tour games). Players made their name in the green and gold.
We also had the big names guesting for British clubs which helped them.become stars over here.
I know it's just one of those things. The world moves on, not unlike the lack of RU talent in RL nowadays, but I think its something that has made the game much poorer.
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Just now, gingerjon said:
I'd be surprised if we don't get past the 65,000 mark. I'd set my sights higher but you can never tell.
The top tier being open (and not loads available in there) is a positive sign.
70k would be lovely and it's nice to finish the SL season off positively with some great playoff crowds too.
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9 hours ago, StandOffHalf said:
With Wigan heading to Vegas, the only way it happens is if KR win.
One more reason to cheer on the underdog next weekend, heehee...
As much as Wigan are not my cup of tea, I do find that they do try and do the right thing for the sport - i think they'll travel twice in a few weeks for the WCC and Vegas.
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7 hours ago, StandOffHalf said:
I suppose the difference in our interpretations is around whether this is the correct scenario to apply the ''assume scored'' principle.
I don't want my comments to come across as an attempt to undermine or sour KR's achievement. On balance, despite being a neutral, I am a KR fan in 2024. I hope they can do themselves proud at OT and finish off a great season!
Interesting thread!
Yes, i would second the point of this post - the discussion here isn't to take from KR's win, I'll be supporting them this week and they've been terrific this year, I do however find the discussion on the VR approach interesting.
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2 minutes ago, GeordieSaint said:
How many do you have now Dave?
Funnily enough, we were discussing getting our first family dog over the weekend, and somebody we spoke to suggested a whippet. Not sure if it was my accent that influenced her
Beautiful dogs, but not for us.
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1 minute ago, gingerjon said:
Ah, yes. Missed that.
Don't worry if you missed it, there'll be another insult soon enough
Back OT though, as long as the RFL aren't doing something silly, the ticket platform has never looked this positive in years. Very few tickets left for the Grand Final, in areas that are normally sold out.
Although I would add that the top tier does have a suspicious pattern in one of the central blocks!
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6 minutes ago, gingerjon said:
What are you replying to?
The stereotypical reference to whippets.
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Guys, thank you for responding, but you can stop answering m6 question now
I get it, Saints got home advantage because they won the Challenge Cup earlier in the year.
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6 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:
The objective is exactly the consideration here.
Similar to a few on here, I don’t think the NRL has the profile of the NFL amongst the south of England population to fill Wembley or Tott’ with a regular season club match, no matter how well the match is marketed. It is still club RL which is (reasonably) suitably catered for in the UK. Heck, I would be surprised if Auckland Blues v QLD Reds (or any other Super Rugby fixture you would propose) could fill 2/3s of Twickenham and that is a sport more affectionately followed in the south.
I don’t think the NRL are that naive to think there is long lasting corporate revenue from London to be derived from playing an NRL club game there.
The only objective I would think worthy of a club venture to the UK would be to test the existing RL market for this ever discussed, NRL takeover of SL. Leaving aside people’s opinion on the NRL’s skill set to exponentially grow the sport in UK/Euro as a governor, better than the RFL, a sold out OT or CoM for a NRL club game may demonstrate the potential improvement for club RL in the UK if the NRL were to consider taking over and it could probably make a small profit at the same time.
I think the biggest difficulty with a NRL club game proposal would be getting the NRL clubs on board.
Similar to a couple of others, I believe the only “one off” game the NRL would generate enough interest to sell out Twickers, Wembley or Tott’, would be SOO.
An outside the box suggestion (which I expect everyone on here to hate
) is to run a series promoting the Kangaroos as the “all conquering winners of 10 of the last 11 World Cups” challenging RU’s home nations and France at 13 a-side RU, followed by a best of European RU v Kangaroos in a game of RL and culminating with a test match against the English RL team to show how good English RL really is. Now that is something alternative I think would sell out major stadia in every capital city.
I was about to like this post, and then I got to your last paragraph
There really should be a 'hate' button.
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7 hours ago, Bedfordshire Bronco said:
I went to the Tongan series games at Saints and Huddy and the match day experience was awful.... Not even the usual burger and chip vans outside the ground at Huddy
There may be plenty of people put off by that experience for the Samoa games.....I swore I was one of them until biking my hotel and ticket recently
I'm not saying I'm expecting a Super Bowl style event but maybe something approaching a normal SL match day experience would be the least to expect .... Like for example the normal food vans etc
Yeah, I'd agree with that being a risk. I didn't go as I had other plans and the WC bored me the year earlier. I'll consider this year although my calendar is challenging.
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3 minutes ago, sam4731 said:
So Wales, Scotland and Ireland should be at a similar level to Samoa, Tonga and Fiji?
I'm not sure why you struggle to understand my point that the heritage players available to Tonga and Samoa has been by far the biggest factor at play here. They are of a far higher level than the other teams named.
For a while the commitment from the NRal was staging a game. Sometimes a triple header. But the PI teams generally played fewer games than the European teams who also used heritage players.
There aren't world class players from Scotland and Ireland running round playing RL like there are form the PI nations.
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1 minute ago, sam4731 said:
I do agree that the desire to play international RL is fairly strong in England. The only problem is that we're not willing to help out the development of RL in the NH. Time after time we penalise Catalans and TO in one way or another. We do nothing to support tremendous potential in Wales and we pretend that the rest of Europe doesn't exist.
Say what you will about the NRL and their attitude to the international game but the success of the Pacific islands is purely down to them.
Hmm. I think your last paragraph is extremely generous to the NRL. The heritage players are extremely strong for the PI teams. That is the key difference at play here.
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Jeez, and there we go, more Northern insults as is the norm on this RL fans forum nowadays.
But it's the Northerners who are small minded.
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WCC in doubt?
in The General Rugby League Forum
Posted
Well. I'm shocked.