yipyee

If you read my post you will see I am agreeing with you but to spell it out........................ A club can be more liberal with projections if they have a chairman willing to make up any shortfall!!!! I am in no way shape or form saying that's a good business model!!!! To have unrealistic projections with no plan B (a chairmen with extra money to put in) is currently were some clubs are going wrong...i.e Bradford, they gambled on attendance and had no plan B!!! What I am saying (if you read back) is that they should deal with absolutes and anything else is a bonus to re-invest the following year....

So if the players dont want to be promoted then that would be easy to achieve would it not? Stanley gene hinted at this on RL supermen did he not?

Then the chairmen put in the extra....which a lot of clubs seem to do! my point is if your chairman doesnt want to do this then dont aim high! and to sit back and hope other clubs will bring lots of fans is madness!

If the players who play in the championships want to play in SL then they can do......the reason they dont is they are not good enough..... If a club got promoted to SL the club would hire a whole new squad....... Has anyone asked the players what they think the structure should be? people are making comparisons to the real world (outside of sport) but in what other line of work would you be laid off for being successful? I am for P & R, but before this can happen there needs to be a second Professional tier below SL, there needs to be a situation where after promotion the bulk of the squad is maintained to play at the higher level/lower level! Otherwise you don't have clubs...just thrown together teams...

looking at those figures it probably explains why Bradford were/are in trouble......

licensing hasnt been a disaster there have been some victories aswell! Some of the CC1 clubs didnt want promotion either by the way... also check out the RFL website, it will show who is part or affiliates of the RFL, now SL clubs are members of SL and the RFL, tier3 clubs are affiliated to the RFL, under the old regime the vision was P&R from bottom to top, Now are you a bottom up guy? If so you will appreciate the need for P&R to be in place at the bottom first!

the RFL want all clubs to be members, simms cross won the top division of tier 4, by the way they aren't being promoted. ..... Sheffield said they weren't in favour of the proposed system, most players wont want P&R and why would they? The promoted team loses their jobs.....the relegated team loose theirs....or they hold on for their contracts and become hated for bringing a club down! P&R wasnt an issue during semi pro as the players day jobs didn't change, again if the championship was fully pro there would be no change! do you not see this to be a problem? Wheres the motivation to win if the end result is loosing your nice little earner playing part time RL?

you are describing licensing!

Most overseas players in the NRL opt for Aus? We are getting closer we need a few more rangi chases! Who was that saints prop faservaluu? and that bradford player who played for England RU.....not to mention henry Paul.... I am of course joking!

Hi, I agree with what your saying.....i was responding to a post saying you don't need home fans as the away fans will carry you..... my point was clubs should be sustainable with home support, of course the sponsorship and commercial side is an additional factor....... I also dont think gate money is in third place.....what do you get from sky around 1.2 mill? clubs say you need around 8000 to compete others say 10k? so if we go at 9k with an average ticket price at 15pounds thats just shy of 2mill? added to 1.2 mill is roughly the full cap? I think in soccer the latest TV deal has only just pushed TV monies ahead of gate receipt.... I was also adding that if your directors are prepared to make up a shortfall then they can be more 'loose' with their projections..... Clubs with chairmen like bradford for instance risked it and lost......

whose clamoring for promotion? there are more against it than for it! several clubs are happy just where they are! any club who wants to raise a tier can do......meet the standards and your in.........there is no closed shop or ring fencing......in this system there are NO SHORT CUTS......and that seems to be your beef.....you are worried as to how long it will take for a club to become good again!

Firstly IO am not a bulls fan..... Secondly ALL tier 3 clubs are members of the RFL play in RFL comps, play in the challenge cup.... You are tailoring your argument to suit keighley.......you also state you want licensing in place .....just not in the league keighley are in your eyes trying to reach.... your explanation of the league system is stuck in the eighties and you claim stats from the sixties..... next you will be saying the sun never sets on the British empire??????

Use historical data of ST sales, add on to your squad if you have a late surge (clubs are still signing players)....most people renew early to get the early bird deals.....theoretically you would need around 8000 ST to spend full cap....if you have had 7000 ST holders for the last 10 years its safe to say you will be there or there abouts again! If you only have 5000 ST holders then budget for that and use cash reserves to try to boost that number?

SL is a seperate entity and is fully pro.... Tier 2 is the next level called Championship split into 2 divisions with P&R.... Tier 3 again is seperate and has P &R between divisions Tier 4 again is seperate and has P&R between divisions currently you have to apply to jump up a Tier.....you claim this is wrong but now you are saying it is right? or are you saying its right unless you are keighley?

I hear you.... But with respect I have no extra money to make up any shortfall and therefore deal with absolutes.....I am not saying also that away support money is scourned at!! What i am saying is that if NO away fans turned up at warrington they would be ok....... If Leigh got promoted and budgeted hoping away fans turned up they would be in a mess if they didnt!! wages not paid etc......(unless the chairman had deep pockets!)

but yet they haven't gone bust.... and they are adjusting accordingly! ! Has Mr Pearson blamed the away fans? Is he looking to add ST holders or is he sitting back hoping and praying that away fans will turn up to pull him back into profit?

so to put that in context you are happy then that there isnt P&R between tier 3 and 2..... By that logic you should be happy that the same is the case between 2 to 1...... As stated SL is separate to the RFL and therefore teams should apply to join! As I said you seem a big fan of licensing. .....

no, you would see how many ST you could sell, then add a reasonable number..... personally I would budget for ST sales and bank the extra cash.....use this the following season to market the games and try to grow the ST holder's. ......

Catalan dont need away fans, neither do Leeds, Saints, Warrington, Hull, Wigan... If clubs need away fans to operate then they are in a league higher than they should be! Dont get me wrong away fans cash will add nicely to the coffers.....but the clubs i mentioned would still break even paying full cap if away fans boycotted their grounds! Also the travelling team will get a cut of the fans they take! Their are a second list with rich chairmen who are happy to make up the short comings..... If Cas need away fans just to pay the bills this adds strength to the argument for a ten team top division!?! How do hull know how many fans HKR will bring? I bet saints thought they would get a full house vs Wigan and it was only around 14K (their average)...... Catalan can survive without being 'propped up' by away support....they are therefore worth their weight in gold! 13 clubs who can average the same or more than catalan (remember with v. little away support) and the SL would be a healthy place indeed!

Firstly how long do they stay in a hotel? If traveling on ryanair and staying in a travelodge bunking up 15 rooms at 20 a room is 300 quid flights 60 quid return x 30 1800 quid? plus a 500 quid coach? Therefore 2 nights 600 plus 1800 plus 500 is 2900.....take that off the extra 100000 made from the return homeleg and a nice profit of 97100 per game! oh looking at that they may be able to afford to pre-pick their seats and extra leg room? So you are therefore stating that you are a fan of licensing and a club should 'apply' to be promoted? do you not find it a travesty that some smoking fellas in a backroom will decide Thatto heaths fate? As you say they won promotion fair and square?!?!?!!? I think you are a closet fan of licensing and if Keighley were in the SL you would be shouting from the roof tops to pull up the drawbridge! Your latest comments on Heath proves this!

the four clubs you name are all muli million pound clubs stop playing dumb!!! Sky money alone is over 1 mill....... Most SL clubs operate at a minimum of 4 mill Thatto heath won the league but wasnt promoted! Same as Sheffield! You bang on about the top end but you don't seem to care that your principles should be extrapolated downwards???

so catalan can get 8500 x 20 a head 170000...Or Leigh can hope 2000 away fans can add to their 1500 So 3500x20 a head 70000..... Eeerrrmmm no degree needed sod the away fans catalan model all the way! !!

Soccer is what people turn to when P&R is championed sky do a good job of papering over the cracks of that creaking behemoth! The clubs struggling to survive below the PL is forgotten about. .....how much press has bolton got? Made 50mill loss last year now around 136mill in debt, that is ONE club, they lost in one year as much as 13SL clubs (minus london) combined cumulative total debt! But hey lets follw that model into oblivion!

again you want to replace multi million pound clubs with thripny bit clubs with only one farthing! THE laughable thing is because soccer has P&R then everyone must no matter how! The jury is still out on union. .....but we can't discuss that here, I think you are trying to take me off on a tangent as you are ignoring the FACT soccer replaces multi million pound club with a multi million pound club, RL cannot do this and for that reason that model cannot work until the championship clubs become multi million pound clubs..... Please embrace that there is no longer a level playing field on and off the park, we now have three distinct types of clubs.....back in the day you had pro and amateur with no P&R between the two, we now have 3 or poss 4 distinct layers, there is a gulf between each layer, what's interesting is that you champion P&R yet I have never seen a post by your good self saying how it was an injustice that thatto heath won the league and couldn't get promoted. .....

sorry I should have pointed out P&R between pros and amateur set ups.... why pick everton? Several clubs have got bankrupt and you have listed a fair few!! Portsmouth didnt get demoted just a points deduction and early tv payments, leeds got a points deduction etc...... Soccer promotes a multi million pound club in place of another, its laughable that in RL you want to replace a multi million pound club with a club that cant even turn over 1 million! Its painful you are embarrassing yourself pretending this isnt the case after much evidence to support otherwise! What has RU got to do with it?