The Great Dane
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Posts posted by The Great Dane
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28 minutes ago, gingerjon said:
My error - I though the A League was completely duplicated for men and women.
No idea about basketball but appreciate that it’s pro in Oz and I should have included it.
No stress, I wasn't having a go mate.
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48 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:
I hear this point often and whilst it has merit for a geographical spread across the continent, the idea simply falls over because the supporter base for the sport is based on the eastern seaboard and the sport needs suitable representation there, never mind the extortionate costs of getting from east to west, north and south of the continent to the other every week.
Ignorance is bliss.
The support base is only on the Eastern Seaboard because everything south of Goulburn and west of Bathurst has been neglected by the establishment in Sydney for basically all of the sport's existence.
If investment was made into other markets you'd see growth, just like the AFL has in the north east and RL in Canberra and Melbourne. Until that happens the sport will have no significant traction.
Furthermore, there're multiple entities across the country interested in investing in the sport that have been shut out by the NRL that could have used the NRLW as a foot in the door, WA being a great example of one that isn't on the Eastern Seaboard. You also failed to address the actual point that I was making, but whatever.
48 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:Using existing NRL clubs is not a necessity, but using existing brands is the easiest door opener for interest, than creating brand new brands.
It’s not a myth, the because the clubs would be significantly worse off if they were all newly established franchises. There would be no existing club fan allegiance to draw on (despite what anyone thinks, every NSW NRL club will have over 100k supporters), then of course there are all the existing facilities, administration, knowledge and skill set in managing a professional sports team to utilise in a single organisation rather than two seperate ones. Setting up 10 new franchises would represent a blowout in costs.
Not to forget as I think @The Rocket put it, the ambition of all young girls now having the opportunity to represent the club they have been following their whole lives. It’s what dreams are made of.
So it’s not a myth, no. Certainly not a proven one.
If there was any real value to the existing brands then the NRLW, AFLW, W-league, etc, etc, sides wouldn't be averaging crowds roughly 1-5% the size of their male counterpart's depending on the sport. Their social media engagement, ratings, etc, etc, would all be significantly higher as well because the supporters of those brands would support the team simply because it's carrying the brand.
They aren't, why? Because 95-99% of the pro club's supporters don't care about the women's product regardless of the brand, and never will. As such it's a niche product that will appeal to a niche audience that can exist regardless of the men's audience.
I also never suggested that the NRL should set up 10 brand new franchises, in fact I suggested quite the opposite, so again you are dodging the actual point that was made.
48 minutes ago, Sports Prophet said:Now there’s a good myth!
Do Cronulla have a divine right to be in the NRLW because of all the unrivalled knowledge, passion, interest and investment the club have placed in professional women’s RL? No, but it probably makes them a better choice than a threadbare organisations like the bloody North Sydney Bears or Newtown Jets!
Cronulla probably shouldn't be in the NRL, let alone the NRLW, but that's an aside.
Under no circumstances, no matter the league or sport, is it necessary to have two Southern Sydney sides in the same national competition. There simply isn't the market for it, and as such in the long run their presence will do more damage than good just like it has done in the NSWRL/ARL/NRL.
Taking all that into consideration, their prior investments into women's RL are pretty irrelevant frankly.
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14 minutes ago, gingerjon said:
It would be a unique occurrence in the Australian sporting landscape - it hasn't happened in soccer, RU, AFL or cricket and there's zero indication that the NRL is thinking of behaving any differently.
It has happened in soccer (Canberra United), basketball (WNBL), and a few other sports.
In those sports that have independent clubs and shared clubs, the independent women's club's tend to be the most successful once you take away the subsidies that the others get from their club's men's team's operations. In saying that, both business plans have their pros and cons and it's definitely a horses of courses situation.
In saying all that I totally agree with you that the NRLW will almost certainly never have an independent club. The NRL will pay lip service to it, but I doubt it'll ever actually happen.
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28 minutes ago, Scubby said:
I don't agree. Some clubs like Perth who are bidding for an NRL team in future may be asked to establish an NRLW team in the interim as part of the process.
Sure, but if the NRL demands of new expansion clubs that they field NRLW teams then those NRLW teams aren't in locations without without NRL teams are they.
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1 hour ago, The Rocket said:
I find your comment of NRLW being "NRL Lite " incredibly ignorant and patronising, have you watched it ?
And also why shouldn`t girls who have supported a particular NRL club all their life not have the right to play for the female team of that club in a national competition.
Why should they not have the right to build their own legacy instead of being forced to ride on the coat tails of the men's clubs?
Signing up to be an NRL club's women's team is signing up to eternally be the after thought opening act, and it shows in the variation between the support of women's and men's teams.
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2 hours ago, Damien said:
Surely teams in Canberra and North Queensland would be in any national competition anyway.
Maybe, but Cronulla, Bondi, Kogarah, and Balmain/Campbelltown probably wouldn't be in most national competitions, or at the very least not all of them.
In RL you'd probably ideally spilt Sydney into 4 or 5 regions each with a single representative- north, south, east, and west, or inner west and outer west. That split was totally achievable in the NRLW, and the only reason it didn't happen is because of myopia and self interest.
To give you an analogy; it'd be like a supposedly national competition in the US that has the five boroughs of New York represented but no teams in LA, Chicago, and Dallas.
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2 hours ago, Man of Kent said:
Perfection is the enemy of good…
Nobody is asking for perfection, just for a little more effort than the bare minimum.
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6 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:
What would your preference clubs have been?
If you were starting a 10 team NRL from scratch today it would look something like-
Sydney x2
Brisbane x2
Melbourne
Perth
Adelaide
NZ
Regional x2
Now in the NRLW's case that probably wasn't going to be feasible, especially with the impact of covid, however the goal still should have been to get as close to that as possible. There also should have been a hard cap on the amount of Sydney clubs as well (probably 4-5), and there's no way that they should have ever been allowed to represent 50% of the competition at any one time.
6 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:Remember there is significant value in using existing brands rather than new ones.
Myth. If it was true the NRLW teams would be significantly better supported than they actually are.
The NRL sides don't have a monopoly on popular existing brands either. The NRL would have got a ridiculous amount of publicity if the Bears and/or Newtown were given NRLW licenses for example, and there're plenty of other famous clubs and brands from around the country whom will/should never get a run in the NRL that the NRLW could have been the perfect format for as well.
6 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:Which non Sydney clubs applications should have been accepted?
We'll never know because 99% of them were effectively barred from bidding.
6 hours ago, Sports Prophet said:Do you have any understanding about the history of the Cronulla Sharks Women’s programme leading up to now? If you did, I think you would be happy with that club’s inclusion.
Doesn't give them a divine right to an NRLW license.
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16 hours ago, Pulga said:
It already is the most elite women's rugby comp in the world.
Have to say I am beyond disappointed that two more Sydney teams have been allowed in. This was a real chance to create a comp without all the horrible baggage of tradition.
Now we're just going to have NRL Lite.
Absolutely no vision.
Yeah if the NRL had any intentions of the NRLW being anything more than a glorified publicity stunt then they would have capped the percentage of the competition that could be from Sydney at any one time, and the licenses would have been open to tender.
Unfortunately self interest and myopia rules the day in RL.
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5 hours ago, Dunbar said:
Do you see this player recycling as a deliberate policy from Stuart then as it seems to be unique in the NRL as the other coaches look to select their best 17 available and provide some consistency of selection?
If the other teams had the depth in a position like the Raiders do in the front row then they’d do it as well.
They might not realise it now, but at the point that those guys are in their careers it’s a win-win for them as well. Even if they don’t cement at spot at the Raiders they’ll be a known quantity, with a good record, and lots of NRL experience that they probably wouldn’t have got under other circumstances.
In other words, even if they don’t land a permanent spot at the Raiders they are being set up to land a spot somewhere else.
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9 hours ago, Dunbar said:
Still haven't managed to catch up with the St George game but I understand James Graham had his best game for a while.
Other than that, Tom Burgess was very strong this week and I though Ryan Sutton looked in very good shape for the Raiders... I would expect him to cement a place in the 17 and start to push for a starting spot.
I wouldn't.
Ricky will keep cycling him and the others like Guler, Lui, and Horsburgh through giving them game time and keeping them match fit, but he won't really commit to one of them really cementing a starting spot until Soliola retires or some of the other guys move on.
The pack's more flexible that way, and it's easier to replace guys that are injured or suspended.
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12 hours ago, DavidM said:
Going to the Roosters will be a great move for him
Going to the Roosters would be the biggest mistake of his NRL career. They'd chew him up and spit him out as soon as the next best thing comes along.
If he truly wants out of the Broncos and he's smart then he'd try to get in with a team like the Knights, up and coming team, good culture, and don't have a brutal, dodgy, corporate attitude like the Roosters.
The Knights and other teams like them, would be patient with him and nurture his game as he builds into a better player, the Roosters would be looking to replace him with the next best player that comes cheaper as soon as they sign him.
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10 hours ago, Davo5 said:
Is there much point in making a comparison,it would be just personal opinion based on little evidence.
My opinion is they could be competitive against the bottom of the table sides but would be out of their depth with the majority of Superleague teams.
They certainly wouldn’t beat their NRL counterparts as delusional Dane states
Burleigh already have beaten their first grade side, and if given the opportunity they could beat a few of the other teams in the lower half of the NRL as well!
Many of the other better teams in the Qld cup and NSW cup could beat weaker NRL teams as well if given the chance, because in reality there isn't that much of a difference in standard between your top Q and NSW cup teams and your bottom of the table NRL sides.
And just because I say they could beat somebody doesn't mean that they'd necessarily be convincing in doing so, or that they'd necessarily have a better win-loss ratio over their opponent.
Let's put it this way, if Burleigh can beat the Titans, then they'd probably finish somewhere between 7th and 10th in your average year of Super League, but they'd definitely "shock" a few of the stronger SL clubs along the way.
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2 hours ago, Davo5 said:
They have struggled to beat NRL reserves/feeder teams in the Interstate Championship suffering a few hammerings along the way 54–12 Illawarra/Burleigh 42-18 Penrith/ PNG Hunters,42-18 Bulldogs/Redcliffe,20-16 Newtown Jets/Burleigh.
Hmm I think I’m not the delusional one.
I agree that many of the NSW cup sides wouldn't be out of place in the SL either.
With the exceptions of Ipswich, CQ, and the Hunters, all the Qld cup sides are reserves for NRL sides as well, so maybe stop talking about things that you know nothing about.
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41 minutes ago, Yakstorm said:
The Queensland Cup (Intrust Super Cup) is no doubt one of the top Rugby League competitions in the world, both from a historic and talent / standard perspective.
Whether it is second, third, fifth or whatever doesn't really matter and is all subjective anyway, but naturally from a Pacifique Treize perspective, they are going to want to hype it up as much as they can.
This is no different than the Wolfpack who have claimed that the Super League is the best competition in the world.
Anyway with regards to the bid, Pacifique Treize will be recruiting from overseas to help compete in the QCup, with the club working with the FFRXIII to embed it into the Development pathways.
How this will look is still being negotiated, but it at least gives another option for talented French players to consider, especially as it is arguably easier for a young French player to move to New Caledonia for a couple of seasons than to Australia or New Zealand (and arguably the UK once you take into account language and culture, etc).
So arguably it will give a third pro channel after Catalans and Toulouse, and an opportunity for young French players to showcase their skills Infront of NRL talent scouts.
Naturally the bid is also looking to grow the game in Vanuatu and the Solomon Islands as well reintroduce it to New Caledonia and create outposts in French Polynesia and Wallis and Futuna.
How long it will take to start producing QCup standard players from those markets is unknown, but there is no doubt talented individuals in that region, like most of the Pacific Islands, who could make it in League.
There has been players who have gone from playing in New Caledonia to playing Pro Rugby in France in Union to further support that thought process.
From a funding process, there is money in the region, including from the Australian Government to 'limit' China's influence in the region, as well New Caledonia is fiscally better off than some other islands in the region.
The best thing for them would be to run teams in the Mal Meniga cup and Hasting Deering Colts for a few years to build up some players before launching the Qld Cup side. That'd probably be financially restrictive though.
To be honest I can't really see where the money's going to come from to support the club at all.
I can't imagine that there's a great deal of sponsorship money on offer for RL in New Caledonia, and I doubt that sponsors from Vanuatu, the Solomon Islands, etc, will be too interested in supporting the team unless it's based in their country, not initially at least. Relying on grants from the Australian Government to support the club is just a really bad idea, but who knows, maybe the French government have some sort of grant scheme that they could apply for.
They're probably going to be pretty reliant on money coming from Australia and maybe France initially, so it'll be interesting to see where the money comes from.
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2 hours ago, Davo5 said:
They really wouldn't
They really wouldn't what?
2 hours ago, Davo5 said:Pity your not in touch with it.
You're either delusional or totally ignorant on this subject.
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2 hours ago, welshmagpie said:
Didn’t Burleigh turn the Titans over in pre-season?
Yep, and if given the opportunity they could do in a bunch of other NRL teams as well.
They aren't the only team that is capable of that as well.
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The top Qld cup teams could beat many of the NRL teams on their day, so suggesting that they would be competitive in the SL shouldn't be taken as an insult.
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9 hours ago, Davo5 said:
Behave.
Sometimes reality hurts.
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I don't know if the Qld cup is stronger than the Super League, but it's a lot closer to SL than people here are making out.
Most of the top half of the Qld cup wouldn't look out of place in the SL. The only club that they'd really struggle with is St. Helens, but that's true of rest of the SL clubs as well.
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It's an interesting idea, a bit like the Wolfpack in that it's come from left field.
Whether it'll work or not completely depends on how much backing they can get to support it, and I can't see where the money will come from.
I also think that it'd be best for them if they started at a lower level and built their way up like the Silktails were doing in NSW, but that would be harder to do in Queensland.
Good luck to them though.
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NRLW To Be The Global Elite Women’s Rugby
in The General Rugby League Forum
Posted · Edited by The Great Dane
Rep footy isn't comparable to club footy for a number of reasons, and frankly I think you know that. A one off special event is always an easier sale than a biweekly commitment.
BTW, I live in Canberra, and it's not close to a sell out unless they've flogged 10k seats cheap in the last few days. Which isn't impossible mind you, I just haven't heard about it yet if it's happened.
Edit; I just checked Ticketek, there's no way that it's close to a sell out. Not yet anyway.