DemonUK
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Posts posted by DemonUK
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They are basically trying to meet their requirements of big city clubs by almost completely ignoring PERFORMANCE. Seems an odd thing to do when trying to 'improve' a sport.
Example of manipulation - A club who currently has say an average finish of 4th place and when the gradings are released find they are comfortably in SL in 2025. They then release all their players and recruit a team made up of conference league players, who they pay £200 a game. In 2025 they finish 12th, as a result their average finish drops to 6th, a reduction of say 0.22 (not exact). the stadium is the same, the big screen the LED boards, press rooms etc all the same. catchment stays the same, crowds still under 7.5k. They take their central distrtibution and spend a million plus less on salaries, accountants report is more favourable or they can use what they save to fund the Foundation gaining another half point or whatever it is.
Now while all the above is unlikely to happen, it is entirely possible that nothing could be done about it if it did. I just feel that the system and this seasons gradings when out will cause quite a bit of uproar. Toulouse confident, Bradford confident .........how? or why? because not much is made about performance.
These thoughts are my own.
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19 hours ago, Taffy Tiger said:
.......
The easiest way is to drop the catchment area criteria . Teams with the highest catchment areas will almost certainly have a 7.5k average attendance anyway , and would be rewarded with the 2.5 max score , but it is still achievable by clubs with much a smaller population to work with , Cas and Leigh being two good examples of this.
One of the advantages of being just a bus stop in Wigan is that Leigh get exactly the same catchment points as Wigan. One of the disadvantages for Cas is their are two other clubs in the same borough. So, thats borough population divided by 3, dragging the catchment points down.
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1 hour ago, sweaty craiq said:
So 8,11,13,3 = Quota if all true and we will have the Big Ben spot also, so no panic there with high quality replacements lined up/done. Don’t think Amone will go btw this year. It will be more interesting which English lads we pick up with the freed cap from those not retained plus Zacs huge deal rumoured at £150k pa at Leigh plus down grades for Hughes and others at older end.
If the Coach has signed on again despite other offers, I suspect he knows who is coming in
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The simple way of putting it is there was a respectful, mature decision between two clubs and that’s as far as it went. They and I came to the conclusion that I’m happy (Daily Mirror)
Probably just me with my personal views on Rowley, but I think the above quote from Rowley is a bit odd and could even suggest that in the end the decision was made for him and not by him. He even had to have Salfords help to decide that he was happy
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2 hours ago, JohnM said:
. ‘Category A’ clubs will be guaranteed participation in the top tier whilst ‘Category B’ clubs will be re-assessed annually with the highest-ranking clubs occupying the remaining slots in the top tier.
I thought All clubs are reassessed annually
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22 hours ago, LeeF said:
Can you detail either the 96% or even the 4% if that’s easier, mentioned in point 1 as I’m struggling to get to either number?
Also what do you mean by “manipulated” and where do you get the 50% figure from?
Ok, I will try and explain what I meant. A maximum of 4 points is available based on on-field performance based on a teams average position calculated over 3 years. 0.25pts is available to challenge cup winners and 0.75 is available to the grand final winner.
In summary if you don't win the CC or GF a maximum of 4 points is available, but that can only be achieved if you have finished top of the league for the last 3 seasons.
If one team wins both the CC and GF then they could in theory gain the maximum 5 pts (25% of total available) leaving the rest with a maximum of 4pts (20%) available and I have detailed above what you have to do to get 4 pts towards your score. Without being too detailed, every position from 1-35 subtracts a further 0.13 or so from the maximum of an average 1st place finish (4pts). So even simple logic states that all bar one or two clubs out of all the clubs can exceed 4pts in any one seasons gradings (the CC and GF points are removed each new season).
As for the manipulation, internet impressions and finances (accounts & foundation areas) as described in the img manual can be easily manipulated by accounting experts. Several clubs have announced significant investment around the start of the season. Where were these investors in past years. Crowd figures I am not sure about, but why have some clubs suddenly got an aversion to publishing them each week.
I see your counter argument re improving facilities and infrastructure etc however there is not the money in the game and monies distributed below SL do not help clubs in the championship achieve this unless they have a rich owner.
My opinion, which I am allowed to have, is that can a sport be a sport where some clubs don't seem to care about the sporting performance simply because there is no relegation because if you are a Grade A or high grade B you receive 2 million quid. You also have to feel for the situation London find themselves in which is basically right place at the wrong time.
This is simply my thoughts with a few substantiated figures.
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5 minutes ago, Tommygilf said:
In fairness, that last point is the purpose of a trial run...
I have no problem with the trial run, that is the correct way to bring something in. Have you seen anywhere that the IMG grading areas are going to be tweaked. Also do you agree that large areas of the grading system can be manipulated for gain. RL is a sport and success should be rewarded, but when 75-80% of the points being awarded for off the field 'achievements'(?) it is miles away from being a 'sport' anymore. I am sure Wigan are really pleased for Leigh that they get exactly the same number of 'catchment area' points for example. Cas have suddenly got lots to spend, but none of it is being spent to improve on field performance for the fans, but I am sure they will love their new padded seats.
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I know this has probably done to death before on here, but the reality to me is horrifying for our sport.
1) For approximately 96% of our clubs the 'On The Field Performance' contribution totals LESS than 20% of the total
2) I have noticed a number of clubs announce million pound investments at the beginning of this season (some would say not a bad thing, but is it just to sit on the books?)
3) I would suggest that at least 50% of available points can be 'manipulated', (see point 2 above as an example)
I could go on but I thnk i have put across my own thoughts on this subject. The result of this is you find clubs virtually admitting they don't care how they do on the field as they think by concentrating 100% on off field performance they are almost certain they will be guaranteed a SL place. London on the other hand are not throwing good money after bad as they are virtually sure they won't be in SL in 2025. Look at Bradford after the last few years of mid table championship performances they managed to be up in 14th or 15th position only a small fraction of a point below being given a SL place.
I did think that the Grading system would be tweaked a little but nothing has been said.
Is this still sport? I don't know. What do I think will happen a week or two before the end of the 2024 season? In a word 'carnage'.
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18 hours ago, Eddie said:
Yes but the EU enforced sales in metric, like a quarter of sweets became (the marginally smaller) 200g.
I hate doing things like this. I think you meant 100g as 200g is nearer half a pound.
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1 hour ago, Bull Mania said:
Whether the deal was appalling or not, in 12 months they've needed "emergency funds" which includes transfer money, fan donations, multiple council loans that has exceeded £1 million. This new stadium deal isn't going to make Salford £1million a year better off.
You forgot asking fans to take loans out to give to the club
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15 hours ago, Taffy Tiger said:
Sorry , I thought there was some sort of protection if you were Category A . Otherwise , why say Cat A can't be relegated . So , if a team is Grade A at the end of 2024 , they can still be relegated at the end of 2025 ?If that is the case , then doesn't seem any point in Cat A statement in the first place
They can be relegated in 2025 if their grading drops to a B and they are outside the top 12 clubs. If they finish bottom in 2024 and are graded A in October 2024 then they can't be relegated in 2024 as they would be guaranteed a SL place. If there were 13 Grade A teams then unless the wording changes the league would have to be expanded........
The words Possibly/Maybe/Guesswork/Assumption apply to the above para until the powers that be inform us categorically what is happening in 2024. Lets hope it is not in October 2024
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Has anything seen anything about the IMG grading criteria being tweaked for the first set of 'Official' gradings to be announced at the end of the 2024 season. Also it would be possible to announce the majority of gradings just before the playoffs commence. But will they? Clubs around the cut off points are going to be in limbo again.
In other words can anyone explain what is happening with the IMG gradings now they have had a 'trial' run.
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Along with the other tackle laws brought in......interesting. If I want to watch 11 v 11 I'm off to the round ball game
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4 minutes ago, Trinity1873 said:
And also Wakefield Trinity and Featherstone, Wakefield MDC population mid 2022 according to ONS [office for national statistics] was 357,729,making it the 18th largest Local Authority in England. WMDC will probably be well over 360,000 by now. Wakefield City alone the population is made up of well over 120,000 Castlefords is 46,000, Featherstone is around 18,500. the rest of WMDC population is made up from other small towns such as Horbury /Ossett/Pontefract/ Hemsworth etc.
So Trinity,who are in the City of Wakefield only get 0.5 points,just the same as Cas and Featherstone who have much smaller populations.
Saying that,i think within a year or two WMDC population will hit 390,000,this would give all 3 clubs in WMDC catchment area full marks , current trends of immigration and the amount of new housing been built [approx. 2000 new homes are currently been built on a new estate within 1/2 mile of Trinitys Belle View Stadium] should see 390,000 possible by end of 2025
If all three come under the same Local Area Authority you will need that Authority to have a population of 780k for you all to get the max (1.5 points) or 520k to get 1 IMG point each
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10 v 10 anyone?
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2 hours ago, Harry Stottle said:
Simply that is the infornation conduit that has always been used for new signings, or is this the new 'Click to Learn' method?
.......and what do you do to open an email? Hopefully will keep up our record of genius signings despite the mixed response over social media
Incidentally my email came at 15.33
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8 minutes ago, Harry Stottle said:
Really, "we will not tell you anything unless you have renewed your membership" what a good way to get non members interested?
What stupid person thought of that. I was going to renew my membership today, now I am having second, third and forth thoughts to do so.
Why, they would only issue an email at the same time as it went official on the website. Stop effing whinging
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44 minutes ago, sweaty craiq said:
Log in and its sat there for you
In a little more detail. Visit Leigh Sports Village website and in the tickets section, log into your account. Just checked mine and it has my Membership for 2024 along with the same seat number as last season.
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2 hours ago, phiggins said:
Key will be to convert them into full paying season ticket holders.
Nothing wrong with that idea, but we have seen this tried before. Didn't Huddersfield try this over a few years and it made not one jot of difference other than to increase Mr Davys financial committment in the years of cheap season tickets
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12 hours ago, dboy said:
Wakey looking good on the fandom/utilisation/finances front - they have sold over 2250 season tickets in 24 hours!
The positivity and excitement is refreshing to say the least.
Are these the season tickets at £100 with 2 free child tickets? So is that 5000 attendance garaunteed for next season or 1000 tickets sold plus the free child places requested by the purchasers?
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I am not reading through 105 pages so if anyone else has made this observation I apologise. Because the 'current season' is included in the Performance rating, attendances, utilisation and one of the Finance sections. Gradings can only be finalised for the teams outside of the playoffs at the end of the regular season. For the teams in the payoffs, their grading can only be confirmed as they get knocked out of the playoffs.
The scenario that I see is that the teams that are confident of easily making Grade A at the end of 2024 will get the pick of available players earlier s they will have no worries about committing to attaractive player contracts If you are on of say 5 clubs that may be within say 0.3 points of one another, how wise would it be to commit to SL size contracts when you could suddenly find yourself as the 13th rated club. They could offer two contracts ie a SL one or a champ one, but how many players will want to commit to a deal like this if it is going to be the middle of October before it is confirmed.
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8 minutes ago, GUBRATS said:
Either way it's laughable , what do they use ? , 6 million ? , of which 100K know about RL and fewer than 1 in 10 of them have ever been to a game ?
Basically the catchment criteria is nonsense
Don't tell Wigan but Leigh will have got credit (IMG points) for half the population of Wign Borough and not just the population of Leigh. Hey! A positive from being in Wigan Borough
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2 hours ago, Bulls2487 said:
Aren't all figures rounded up? So 2.3 1.8 and 2.4?
Only if you are a Bradford fan. I make it an average position of 18th if you add the finishing positions together and divide by 3
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2 minutes ago, Leonard said:
Isn't the 1895 cup just a lottery based on avoiding any SL sides in the draw?
The idea of that settling promotion is hilarious.
err No SL sides in the 1895 cup. Even with 0.1 pts they get for it and the closeness of 8 to 13, it could quite easily be the difference
IMG Grading System (Many Merged Threads)
in The General Rugby League Forum
Posted
Sorry I wasn't meaning just population. 20% on playing performance (plus another 5% if you are lucky enough to win everything and 75% on non playing.