sweaty craiq

Imagine the importance of that 4 v 5 middle eight decider for SL, massive massive game That split on money should see 6 full time clubs in sl2 minimum

Great structure to expand the game compared to now, I too expect Toulouse in the second tier 2015

Martyn, what is amazons turnover compared to RL? Would Amazon have any investors if they didn't have a clear path to market? Do amazons investors have the same objectives as those in sport- I do not know one person who is looking for a return from a private sports club, the motivation is different and understanding that may help you assist in taking our game forward from your privileged positionI operate on a smaller scale than Amazon, we don't spend what we don't have, we understand our market/opportunities and sell on value to our strengths, we grow through profits and reinvestment as the bankers reputation has been rightly earned during the recent years At some point my assetts may be capitalised, at that point I may want to put tens of millions into my club to leave a legacy after I become maggot food, I wouldn't do that with the structures in place now or proposed. I don't want guarantees because life doesn't work that way but I want to know that if I achieved results the progression is guaranteed and immediate - your proposal disenfranchises the people who can move our sport forward, let clubs find their level at that moment in time and ensure they can live the dream in the future RL clubs are not global brands, they are the sum total of local passion. If we want brands then we create 10 new clubs in 10 catchment areas across the UK and throw all the tv money at them and take the gamble, wasn't that the dream in 1994? The ones who will support this are the so called RL evangelists and the clubs who are one of the ten, maybe the short term pain will be worth it but will Warrington fans watch the Mersey saints at langtree park? That is now one desperate roll of the dice we do not need to make IMO but that is where you logic ends up

Great post

How can a business spend money it hasn't got and remain in business Martyn - isn't that why we are where we are and franchising has failed?The laws of the real world must be implanted in the RL world asap, who are you or I to tell a club they are not worthy. That is a gross mixture of stupidity and arrogance from a defeatist with no business understanding Competition is the lifeblood of any vibrant industry and RL has so much to sell if we make the dinosaurs extinct and focus on the wonderful product we have together with the value it will bring to our partners - I say this employing 1900 people and making £15m profits in 2013 in a business that was nearly belly up 10 years ago operating in the private sector ( sorry about the penis measuring) We take on people 5x our size and wipe the floor with them on the bottom line, 10 years ago we were laughed at and in your mentality would have our ambitions denied, that flat cap is impacting on your vision imo

Martyn's having a laugh pal, great wind up by him. At first glance you think he's being serious, sign of a good wind up merchant that, well done sir and I hope the circulation continues to rise

its our duty to keep up rambling on , the more outside the box the posts the better I heard the championships had a 5 year tv deal at £40m to move the season

Really!!

A few hypotheticals in my post, but the exclusion scenario must pose a huge threat to lower tier clubs with ambition so do they simply die, do they become feeders and die from within or do they create a new product? In those options mine would be the latter, but let's hope those choices are not relevant

That game was in the SL era when the season started December and the GF was July or August On a side note if exclusion continues the rest need to look at how to compete and moving the season is the first thing I would advocate for survival and creating an alternative product

I recall widnes v leigh 2nd game of the season with both clubs dreaming of sl around the millenium - near 7000 crowd that was bigger than most premiership ru games that day - where did we go wrong

Please read the post if you don't understand it ask this iPhone kills me

I stated that ring fencing SL allows them to take the pieces of silver, slash playing and development budgets to pay off debt, I stated that is what is happening now imo and is not good for the game We need to improve our pool of FT players eligible for eng/wales/France in the short term 20 clubs does that for what we currently have, longer term I expect those 20 to grow their own wood via the junior games promotion and would also advocate centrally run academies as the majority of clubs have shown they can't produce players, possibly wire Wigan saints Leeds and hull to stand alone with a Calder Kirklees and Lancashire run by the RFL Increased intensity at the top will put bums on seats and viewers on subs, a relegation/promotion scrap does the same Anyone thinking this robs revenue from the elite when you consider the opportunities it opens is very blinkered

If the average debt for the bottom 8 clubs was £68m or £8.5m per club then I expect the receivers to close the comp down, if the debt is to benefactors then it should be capitalised to shares unless they want it back in which case they will seize any assetts The danger to the sport is that those benefactors want to claw money back, the best way to do that would be to ring fence the comp and then slash budgets - some SL that would be and imo that is what we are currently seeing You can run a FT club on £6-700k central funding in a second tier and a £1m+ playing budget, which provides the core infrastructure to move up should you win promotion without major surgery on an already dead patient ie what we almost have now. For sums - Cats and Toulouse own TV deal in France no Sky funding. 9 clubs in SL1 at £1.2m = £10.8m, 9 clubs in SL2 at £700k = £6.3m total funding £17.1m pa which is within what we currently have and allows 2x10's with p&r, £19m if the French clubs are funded by Sky

If clubs cant run with their debt and manage their business then they shouldn't be full time in any structure Parky, surely. The same as in business, the winners change as dinosaurs die and youngsters take over. Running a failing business should never be rewarded

Aren't we all awaiting the decisions that will provide the answers? The only thing that seems to have been discussed openly is the mid eight, which lets face it away from the battle for SL Champions it will be the most important comp with the most to play for, the relegation battle in tier 3 should be a good scrap too

1. If the original funding is correct then it is highly unlikely it will be FT V PT in the mid 8, all clubs should be FT ie the 2 from this years championship GF assuming its Fev, Fax, Leigh or Sheffield, the 2 who drop this year - assuming they make the top 4 and the bottom 4 from SL1 2015 who make up the eight. Martyn must have had a heavy Xmas 2. Only two of the Championship big four will probably make the mid eight 3. A money man could invest his club into SL by hitting mid eight then top four

[quote name="The Parksider" post="2863279" timestamp There's never anything behind these empty headlines. Nobody has to explain their theories of course, but again I'd like to know how changing Leeds, Wigan, Hull, Catalans, Warrington and Saints for say Oxford Gloucester, Sheffield, Keighley, Leigh and Featherstone will expand the market for the game.......Without destroying the market and infrastructure of the big clubs for a massive nett loss? Any takers or is that it for the debate now? Anyhow today Martyn Sadler would like a system of P & R in which over 3 years you have to win the grand final and then all the GF winners play off for the three yearly SL place whilst all the SL losers over the three years play off to avoid the relegation place. Simple, easy for the fans to understand and fair (??), after all it can relegate a club with money and replace it with a club without money, trapping that latter club to a possible disasterous three year stint - a la London Broncos. The sight of poor Broncos having to stitch together a "club" just to see the 3 years out one would have thought would be proof enough this sort of thing is no good. Still clubs could refuse promotion in which if that happened we'd go six years with nothing. The massive financial gap between the Elite and the rest prevents any results based system working for me. Leeds Wigan etc are in as much danger as chelsea Man U etc of going down, the battle is between Widnes HKR Cas wakey Salford London on the SL front and leigh fax Fev and sheff on the championship, are Cas bigger than fax or Leigh? Given the same finance over many years? It will be good to see 8 of those scrap if out in a mid 8 but better still to have two full time tens allowing clubs to build IMO Martyn has got to a stage of life he enjoys winding folk up with outrageous suggestions - it's good fun that

I have re-read all 134 pages and my conclusion is we need a sl of Wigan Wire Saints Leeds Hull and Catalan, playing each other 4 times, followed by a 6 team play off to determine the champions. Each club to get £3m pa the rest can do one.

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the perception is different

and neither are those of SL

that include your good self

Anyone else sick of going over the same old ground, close this down and watch the board implode after the meeting is my suggestion.

Sorry pal 1990 was a fictional date it could have been 91 or 92 etc must get my rothmans out to compete you lot