bowes
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Posts posted by bowes
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But administrative areas is exactly what counties are. If we're going to start claiming, then we (the West Riding of Yorkshire) will have Saddleworth, the Trough of Bowland and Sedberg back for starters.
Administratively Cheshire doesn't exist at all, there's West Cheshire & Chester, East Cheshire, Halton and Warrington with no county council. Likewise Merseyside doesn't exist administratively it is separate boroughs one of which is St Helens
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I was actually talking about their Academy, if they have one ?
They have Barrow Laikers in the National Youth League but nothing professional
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And Barrow ?
Their reserves packed in midseason
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I often enjoy his posts, and he contributes a lot of information, but he does have a tendency to 'go off on one' and present his opinions as absolute fact (don't know where the hell he gets that from).
In this case there is only one possible absolute fact that RU is wider spread than RL at the professional level. You can't have an opinion on it.
An opinion is whether RL will ever catch up with RU on this spread or not
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RU certainly is strong at this level in Yorkshire but if these clubs do have second teams won't they already be in the league structure at a lower level.There's no need to count them twice
Actually no 2nds (3rds, 4ths...) play in merit leagues.
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If there is so much interest in the game, wouldn't this transfer into Sky viewing figures?
I am not talking about Internationals, I have no issue with extensive coverage of that, but when Aviva Premiership gets this extensive coverage, despite the clear lack of national interest, then it is an issue.
One issue not often mentioned is RU traditionally had more senior clubs up north than in any other region so because there were so many near each other there was less support for any individual one and thus it was harder to attract enough support when the game went pro (Leeds are a merger of Headingley and Roundhay think of in RL terms how big crowd the equivalent would get and would supporters of other West Yorkshire clubs go watch them?) Twickenham and surrounding areas was the other area with too many clubs hence mergers, relocations and clubs dropping down the leagues, historically there was not a single senior club in the entire South East outside of London but 10 in London!
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the extra round of games means lots more revenue to the RFL to fund development officers
I doubt it's lots more, but is a bit more I'd have thought
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Surely a measure of how popular these sports are at certain levels is Sky viewing figures. All sports have their top league and some international games shown by SS.
engage Super League coverage more often than not outstrips RU Premiership coverage, often by a considerable amount. How does this then translate that more people want to read about the RU Premiership than engage Super League? That doesn't make much sense to me tbh.
We can have no complaints at Test level, as RU tests often have double the viewing figures of a RU test, but tbh if we had half their coverage it would be a hell of an improvement.
I was thinking attendance wide but fair point though RL has more of a TV culture than RU so more complex with regards to it being an indication of interest.
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As much as rugby league being under represented, we also have certain sports over represented. Compared to soccer and speedway, we can be quite happy with our coverage. If rugby league is less reported than a single Manchester United game, that does give a general reflection of the level of interest.
However, some sports, e.g. cricket and rugby union are wildly over represented through a number of factors, which basically come down to where national journalists and their ideal customers went to school.
To compare ourselves to cricket and ru coverage says as much about the coverage of these sports as it does about our own.
County cricket is overrepresented but I wouldn't say international is as there is a lot of interest. Club RU should in honesty get more coverage than club RL but not to the extent it does as the crowds are only a little higher on average and big RL crowds are very big. Depends on how well a particular paper sells in the north as well I suppose as people from RL areas are more likely to buy a left leaning paper I would have thought, hence the Guardian gives more RL and there's much less in the Daily Mail
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Bowes - there is a difference between an extreme opinion and an 'extreme' lie (I'd like to know the measurement scale).
The difference is whether something is measurable, which something like spread of teams is, but there's no point carrying this on of course. You can't have an opinion on whether a cow or elephant is bigger
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awful crowd for a semi final
hudds crowds just havent kicked out like id hoped they would with those cheap season tickets
Season tickets aren't valid for playoffs.
But yes you'd think people would want to go anyway. Their crowds aren't great but next to Salford or Quins they're okay so it's all relative.
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I'm certainly not going to "debate" anything with you, seeing as you indulge in personal abuse and incivility.
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why are the crusaders down as northern
Because they are, 30 miles from Widnes. A matter of debate on them and Scorpions of course depending on whether you're including Wales or not.
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What is wrong with you? Why are you choosing to turn this discussion into personal abuse?
well, just lookie here!
No unlawful or objectionable content. Unlawful, harassing, defamatory, abusive, threatening, harmful, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, racially offensive or otherwise objectionable material is not acceptable.
Stop abusing the rules to avoid admitting you were wrong. A lie is a deliberate mistruth by definition and I had already debunked this myth earlier in the thread before you repeated it. If you want to try to oppose my claim with facts then I will welcome that as this is a discussion board, instead you said a meaningless comment and made no attempt to debate whatsoever that if I wanted to push the rules I could claim is equally an abusive comment.
RU played full time professionally in 9 out of 9 English regions, including 1/4 of the top flight in the north where there's 1/4 of the population.
RL played full time professionally in 3 out of 9 regions, all bar one of these clubs in a straight line and the other club being very poorly supported.
What in that do you disagree with?
If you don't want to debate then this stops here, but I'd rather you debated my points on an individual basis then we could have a more civil debate.
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The strength of the game is definitely in the south.
The 3 northern clubs first home games got 5,000 5,500 and 7,500. This is against the Aviva league average of 12,000.
Of course it is bigger and more spread but as far as the Aviva league goes the real interest lies in the south.
When you consider that Exeter are new this year and that the 3 Northern clubs are not well supported, it is a fairly regional league. Compared to the amount of press it gets, how many people do you think are genuinely interested in the results of the Aviva Premiership. I would suggest there are a handful of people in the north.
League clearly deserves to be in the National press in comparison and it would be if the M62 happened to run through London.
3/4 of the population is in what you're calling the south though and Harlequins would kill for any of those crowds, not great admittedly. Rugby League isn't even well spread in the north (nor is RU in the South East in fact, the 2 areas RU is insignificant are in fact East Anglia and the South Coast (excluding South West of course)
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I think looking at the 'where pro clubs are based' thing is a bit simplistic. These days plenty of people move around the country, and there are plenty of people from 'traditional' RL strongholds (Yorks, Lancs, Cumbria) that live elsewhere. Plus, there is a national amateur structure, the student game, the forces etc. This means there ARE people who are interested in League throughout the country. Arguably League is a more national game now than it has ever been.
I have no issue with that, at schools level RL has a better spread (it gets worse as you move up the pyramid, things will improve as these players grow up) but he said at the professional level which is just a lie
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you mean lying as in "you'l be hearing from Carter-Ruck"?
I've just checked what I wrote because at my age, my short term memory isn't what it was. I wrote "Union is as regional as league at the pro level" not "RL outside the north could be even nearly as big as RU in the north"
Well okay then explain to me how RU having full time professional teams in all 9 regions of England is just as regional at the pro level as RL only having full time pro sides in 3 regions, and even including semi pro sides only has them in 4 out of 9 regions and that's a stretch including a side that is semi-pro in little more than name.
Seriously how can your statement be anything but an extreme lie, not just a small one, but an absolute extreme black is white level one? You may as well say RL is bigger than soccer on the grounds you like it more and it would be no more a lie.
I know you obviously like RL more than RU, as do I, but that's no excuse to make up childish lies
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...and breathe...better now?
You have to admit you were lying though?
It is beyond the wildest dreams of even Parksider that RL outside the north could be even nearly as big as RU in the north
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Union is as regional as league at the pro level
If you're going to tell lies at least make them believable, talking rubbish ruins your whole argument, soccer is actually less national at premiership level than RU if anything, the South West, Yorkshire and East Midlands are hardly premiership soccer hotbeds (used to be for the latter 2), where's most clubs are London or North West. RU has Premiership teams in 8 out of 9 English regions and a team from the 9th region (West Midlands) just got relegated.
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We just aren't considered as newsworthy, despite the Aviva Premiership having a similar geographical split as the Engage Superleague, but with the bias towards southern based teams.
Are you for real?
The RU Premiership has 1/4 of its teams in the north where 1/4 of the population is. Sounds pretty fair representation of the north. The only major skew from the country's demographics is the South West is overrepresented, London and the South East is believe it or not slightly underrepresented per capita
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It's a very fair point. I think we need to do more to get semi-professional clubs going in the south, but what? Do we make an easier format for the clubs to be sustainable? What would that be?
For me, you only need to look at South Wales Scorpions as a bit of a model for other areas with a fairly decent amateur set-up. Holding trials with mainly amateurs in the region in order to build the team, and they have been pretty competitive. Surely there are more areas that could manage? The South West? South East? Midlands? There must be at least enough decent amateurs for one team in each?
South East has too little RL for now and South West is just RU off season players with the partial exception of Bristol. Midlands I'd like to see eventually one each east and west midlands once juniors have come through for a while, but it's perhaps wrong to talk about the semi-pro/amateur split still being in the same place then.
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Bramley are an amature team who couldnt cut it in div 1 or 2 of the pennine let alone anywhere else.
in the league they play in they play no one of any real quality.
Rubbish, while the best teams outside the pro league are in the NCL Premier, Bramley wouldn't be out of place on the field in the NCL (off it they'd fail almost every criteria but that's a different issue, they're set up on a different basis), their league is a lot higher standard than it was (partly due to clubs shipping in winter players admittedly) but struggles for numbers and has no minimum criteria so you do get rubbish in, but the 8 remaining sides are decent enough on the field and some are good off it too especially Hemel, Nottingham and Featherstone Lions. Of course Bramley wouldn't be as strong without their players that double up at winter clubs but they'd still have a decent enough side. Look at Bradford Dudley Hill and remember they were about the same standard as Bramley when they played together.
Clearly the small size of the league and the reliance on winter players is going to be harmful but the likes of Bramley, Warrington Wizards, Hemel and Nottingham would be alright; as for the other 4 would depend whether they prioritise their summer or winter sides and how many players they lose. It will be fine to run next year with 8 or 9 teams that will be it.
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Do elaborate!
The exact structure has far too much consultation and ifs, buts and maybes to say exactly but the following are expected:
single division Championship (format and size TBC but expected to be licensed)
2-3 further national divisions (mostly NCL sides and the remaining semi-pro sides plus some better RLC sides)
Then some form of structure below depending on how many sides switch, at one stage they were considering north west, north east and south but this is very much subject to change especially south of Sheffield depending on who switches etc. Some form of pyramid is planned below this, how much is linked by P & R, how much is standalone etc. is to be determined though the RLC may well split into separate regions within this pyramid as different regions have different development needs. What these regions would be I don't know for example not sure if we'll be midlands or west and east etc.
That's the most I know at the moment though I've been told to expect good things
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I feel like I am on QI, and about to have the klaxon blaring at me for an obvious answer being wrong, but....
Why aren't Bramley being allowed into CC1? 6GF's should be enough even for the Ostrich's at Red Hall to notice?
Ground quality and I believe they still need to put a big bond with the RFL.
Expect a big change in the league structure in 2012 that leaves this discussion irrelevent if the RFL can pull it off
Lancashire dominating RL
in The General Rugby League Forum
Posted · Edited by bowes
How on Earth are you including Leigh in Lancashire but not Widnes? Makes no logic whatsoever either they're both Lancashire or neither is.
That's before we get onto the facts that if Yorkshire exists then Barrow is in Lancashire making it: Yorkshire 7, Lancashire 3, France 1