ParisSurtout

Aren't you becoming a little bit obsessive Padgy? Have you ever thought of focusing more on photography?

In recent years the Super League has had two or three, maximum four clubs, competing consistently for the top spots. In the early part of this decade it was St Helens and Bradford. Then Leeds became a contender, and Wigan was for a time just outside the top two. Then it became all Leeds and St Helens. This year it is Wigan top, with Warrington and St Helens the nearest challengers, followed by Leeds, Hull FC and on its good days Huddersfield. So we only have six clubs out of 14 who could win the competition (a minority), but realistically it is only four: Wigan, Warrington, St Helens and Leeds. And they are alll M62 clubs. The non-M62 clubs Crusaders, Harlequins and Catalans have no chance. So there is no geographical diversity among the competitive clubs. Compare that with the NRL: in that competition there are 12 competitive clubs: Melbourne, St George-Illawarra, Penrith, Wests Tigers, Sydney Roosters, NZ Warriors, Manly, Brisbane, Gold Coast, South Sydney, Parramatta and Canberra. This is a strong majority of the 16. It is also somewhat geographically diverse with 7 of the 12 from Sydney metropolitan area, two from Queensland, one from NZ, one from the national capital, and one from Melbourne. So in the NRL there is mcuch less certainty about who will win the NRL Grand Final, or even who will make the play offs. In part the NRL diversity reflects the greater diversity of the NRL competiiton where 9 of the 16 clubs are from Sydney -- a ratio which will likely fall in 2013 to 9 out of 18 with the addition of Perth and one other non-Sydney club. The fact that there are fewer competitive clubs in the Super League affects crowds. The fact that there is so little geographical diversity, and the diverse clubs are not strong, affects the TV audience. In the NRL the TV audience is helped by a guarantee that most Friday night teleecasts will include at least one club from Queensland. In Britain, because there are so few non M62 clubs , and they are relatively weak, such a rule could not work with Sky at this time. So there seems to be two issues: raise the number of competitive clubs, raise the geographical diversity of clubs. The latter demands that the Super League be expanded geographically. The former problem is a much more difficult one to deal with. It is not clear to me what the solution is, other than increasing the financial resources at the weaker clubs so that all could spend up to the salary cap (easier said than done), and relying less on imports (which the RFL is trying to realise). If these two issues could be resolved, then the Super League contests would become more diverse and more attractive to both ground spectators and the television auddience. In this way rugby league would surely become a more powerful and prosperous sport in Britain and France.

And your source for that definitive conclusion is......?

Matt Orford wants to go home to Australia. Parramatta are interested. http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-...0721-10l51.html What hope will Bradford have of being a top six contender if it lacks a quality scrum half? Mick Potter is walking into a very difficult situation.

Catalans will improve greatly because they had the worst coach in Super League, who dragged them to the bottom of the competition. The only way forward is up. Leeds have plenty of improvement in them. So they could well deny St Helens and Warrington the right to challenge Wigan in 2011. There are, after all, two spots in the grand final up for grabs. The draw bridge has pretty much been pulled up. Inglis may go to Brisbane, if he doesn't stay at Melbourne. But nowhere else. All the other top NRL stars, who could make a difference to a Super League club rival of Wigan --- such as the Melbourne 4, Thurston, Lockyer, Gasnier, Morris, Jennings, Prince, Marshall, Pearce, Carney, Dugan, Coote (look at the State of Origin and Kiwi teams) ---are committed to NRL clubs for 2011. 2012 could be a different story, though the impending NRL salary cap increase will probably stop the super stars from coming to England.

In general I agree with you. However once the word gets around that the new Saints stadium is a great place to go to watch rugby league, I am sure that not only the locals, but also the visiting club fans, will be more likely to want to to go. I could forsee Saints locking out paying fans on the day even when a future successful Bradford, and perhaps even Hull FC and Hull KR play --- as well as the obvious future sellouts for Wigan, Warrington and Leeds. If I am right on that, then it becomes a question of doing the maths on revenues lost or gained. Until now there has been a disjunction between a great performing rugby league club and their dreadful ground. The new stadium is going to eliminate that disjunction and elevate the Saints brand to a higher level. I just hope that they have calculated correctly on what that will mean in terms of future fan interest.

The fact that Wigan cann sell out the 25,000 capacity DW/JJB (in effect 22,000 max) when both clubs are firing well. The current Saints capacity is hardly ever tested because decent fans, especially those with kids, will think twice about going to a dreadful place like Knowsley Road. On the design issues for an increase, you may be right.

18,500 is a bit too small a capacity for a great club like St Helens. They will be locking people out for the Wigan and Warrington games, and close to doing the same for Leeds game as well. 20,500 would have been about right. I hope that they have capacity to add a seating stand above one or both of the planned standing only terraces behind the posts, should my predictions about big game lockouts be proven correct. Revenue from additional seating will pay for itself over time.

Please read my previous longish post immediately above yours, posted at the same time as yours. It answers your response.

There are two ways a club can improve itself: (1) a good new coach (2) good new players. Warrington bought a lot of good new players a few years back, but they underachieved, because their coach was not of Super League calibre. The club then bought a good new coach and it became a much better team, which within twelve months has improved to the level of the top three clubs. Wigan has retained the same team as last year, but the purchase of a good new coach has lifted them to the top of the table and Grand Final favourites. Next year they clean out their underachieving imports and purchase three new ones who are better than the departing. The obvious conclusion is that they can only be an even better club next year than this year. Warrington has added one quality player named Brett Hodgson -- a big improvement on Richie "Turnstiles" Mathers -- but his acquisition will not be as significant as the Hoffman, Finch, Lima acquisitions for Wigan. So I conclude that Wigan's improvement is likely to be greater than Warrington's, making them clear No. 1. As for the others, I do not see Leeds either changing their coach or buying significant new players of quality. Bradford's new coach will improve them, but even so their player roster will not get them to the Grand Final. St Helens do not have a new coach named yet. But since we know it will not be Wayne Bennett or Craig Bellamy, I cannot see their new coach making a huge difference. The only club that is likely to improve dramatically under a new coach is Les Catalans Dragons. But in that case the retention of Clint Greenshields will be necessary for them making the top six, let alone higher. In summary, the uplift that three new good new players will give current table topping Wigan next year is greater than the uplift that other clubs are likely to get from new coaches or new player acquisitions. My argument is that this uplift cements Wigan's right to be considered Grand Final participants, and even Grand Final favourites.

Maurice Bowes.

That is what some people are saying. It is not what Mr Posh was saying.

Nobody is questionng the remarkable history of Wigan Warriors RLFC. I have already indicated in this thread that I believe that Wigan has a shot at winning this year. My point, which seems to have gone over your head, is that the three Storm signings will make Wigan even stronger than this year, and near certainties for the Grand Fnal next year.

My hunch was confirmed when I read that Hoffman came to the Storm at age 18, the same time that Craig Bellamy arrived there. Moreover Bellamy played as a team mate at Canberra with Ryan's dad. So there are very strong ties between Ryan Hoffman and Craig Bellamy-Melbourne Storm.

Ryan Hoffman's deal is for one year with a one year option. It may be that Ryan Hoffman is looking to return to the Melbourne Storm when their salary cap problems are resolved -- either in 2012, or at worst in 2013 when the new NRL TV contract and much bigger salary cap kicks in. This will give Wigan at least two and perhaps three separate shots at the Super League trophies (I include this year).

No, Lima is not an ex Kiwi. He was, is now, and will remain a Kiwi until he decides otherwise. Meanwhile we can expect him to represent New Zealand Kiwis again in the future. No Finch is not an ex 7, he is a versatile half who can play 6 or 7. Do you think that his year playing 6 at Melbourne Storm has caused him to forget how to play at 7 -- a position he played for ten years?

Finch plays 6 for Melbourne now, but for ten years played as 7 for Canberra Raiders and the Sydney Roosters, not to mention NSW State of Origin. You need to keep up with your rugby league players' histories.

Lima first represented New Zealand in 2007. He was injured in 2008. But he was reselected for Melbourne Storm and New Zealand in 2009. It is now 2010.

Yes, you are very wrong. Reread my previous post...but carefully this time. Jeff Lima played in the Melbourne Storm grand final victory of 2007 off the bench. He was subsequently picked to represent New Zealand four times. (Remind me of how many Wigan props have represented England?)

You are wrong. Hoffman is a blockbusting forward, who will be scoring a lot of tries for Wigan with bursts from 20 yards out. He will also be cutting down so many Warrington, St Helens, Hull FC and Leeds attackers, that you will be thanking your lucky stars that you have Michael McGuire and Ian Lenagan making player purchase decisions. Finch is a decent, though not great, half back. He talks a lot on the field, though because of the accent, what he says may not be understood by all of his team mates. Watch out for him giving a spray to some Wigan player who makes a big mistake. Finch does have an excellent field kicking game though. In this regard he will give Wigan another set of kicking options, which is why Bellamy brought him to Melbourne in the first place. Finch managed three Origins for the Blues, with his debut coming in 2004, and his most famous appearance in 2006 when he was a late call-up. Called-up on the eve of the game, Finch scored a try, set up another two and kicked the winning field goal to give NSW a remarkable 17-16 win.

And on that point it certainly helps that Wigan have signed three players from the same top flight team.

It won't fly. People would confuse them with another Super League franchise -- Toulouse Olympique -- who may drop out of the Championship in 2011 so as to qualify for a Super League license under the category of a "foreign club invited."

NZ Warriors are now on a rampage. Don't judge Jeff Lima on one away game against the likes of NZ Warriors.

Inglis may go to Brisbane. Cam Smith, Cooper Cronk and Billy Slater will stay in Melbourne for sure. But Wigan have snared Jeff Lima, Ryan Hoffman, and Brett Finch. http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/league-...0717-10f2q.html I would now appear that Wigan have their 2011 Grand Final appearance chalked in, with a victory almost certain.

I have seen it, though not rugby league and only in a TV electronics store. However it is obviously the wave of the future. You can also watch 3D on a 3D Blu Ray with a 3D capable TV. However we need to pressure the RFL and NRL to start issuing their videos in a 3D Blu Ray format, as well as in regular 2D Blu Ray, and regular 2D DVD. But I suspect the idea of producing videos in three formats is too complicated for the average rugby league administrator's mind.