The Rocket

Should be compulsory reading for the knockers of the Canadian venture. Love the sound of that " next year we are hoping to have 5 or 6 new clubs". Neatly sums up everything we have been saying. Imagine if these kids, some of whom may be put off by the heavy physical contact of Tackle League, could witness a game of what we have been calling Tag League, with its intricacies and tactics, could make quite an impression on a young Tag participant. Or being taken to a game involving The Kangaroos vs. the locals, as Mal Meninga was talking about in the media over here last week, a stop over on their way to Europe. With regards your last paragraph, mass participation in a sport closely resembling Tackle League could be fertile ground for recruiting players for tackle or even just for cultivating supporters for a professional or semi professional team. Like you said Pro club emblem on one side of TTRL jumper, local club emblem on the other.

G`day UP, I have just been over in the real world on the TWP thread talking to Kayakman. I have been trying to convince him that he should get in on the ground floor with that organisation. For a bloke who loves the sport as much as him it could be a golden opportunity to be part of something that hopefully one day will be massive. I would love if with some of the stuff we have worked through here and Irish`s contribution on School development it would be possible to put some of it into action. It`s hard to put it into a short post because you don`t want to sound like your hectoring, but anyway I talked to him about the idea of using TTRL as gateways into the game. When I read about those 10 000 crowds they were getting and the buzz surrounding the TWP it would seem to be the prime opportunity to get people into these ` mass participation` variants of the sport. You should go over and read his description of union teams coming and playing League at half time at WolfPack games. And people were bagging them (TWP) out ! F___ing hopeless. It should be a League followers dream. Back to what we were talking about, I suppose the TTRL versions of the sport played mid week would seem the best way forward in the short term, Tag League comps could evolve out of that most likely through established RL clubs. Playing like you said before the main game, I think you mentioned ground hire is exorbitant, so that would probably suit that version of the game plus the fact it actually is a fairly close variant of Tackle League. Certainly in the short to medium term, with a lack of established RL Clubs across the country, it may be impossible to avoid the TTR franchise system. And perhaps with a stronger relationship between the RLF and the TTR franchisees this relationship could develop in to something that is much more productive to RL and openly recognised as League affiliated and a legitimate part of our sport. Its getting late and I have other things to do. Speak to you soon. By the way, just because my family came from Suffolk doesn`t mean we came out here on a British Gov`t all expenses paid, fixed term , non refundable working holiday. Thank you. I come from a long line of carpenters ( no Karens ). Debenham, is I believe the name of the Town, with some time spent in Ipswich as well. I plan on visiting one day.

This conversation is in danger of descending into what has been called on other threads as `bald men arguing over a comb.` By denying the natural instinct to push something away that is reaching for you may only introduce more grey areas. Does it constitute a fend when some one reaches down to brush away a hand reaching for the tag, or was that brush accidental in the motion of running? And why should not this variation of the game have this element of mass appeal, O.k. below the head, we don`t want broken noses, but I don`t think it is going to lose its mass appeal because of the fend. I am starting to wonder whether you may be someone who has an aversion to any physical contact .Don`t touch me. I have just spoken to my son on this issue and reread your first paragraph, I will concede the last sentence is key. I am arguing regards to someone reaching for a tag as you are running past them, he perhaps like you are referring to the situation where two players facing each other and one is blocking the others hand attempting to reach the tag. He suggested to me that if I thought the Tags were too easy to grab make them shorter. Smart boy my son. Different length Tags for different levels of League Tag. Union has away to go before it develops an alternative to Tag League, especially if they want to play on a large stage where comparisons can be made. In their alternative they have introduced a 2m rule, when that doesn`t work a 5 . RL can`t afford to assume that they will not solve this problem. This is why it is imperative that we get it into our WC. But yes the RFL may have some time to harness its potential, despite some having claimed that `ship may already have sailed `. I certainly would love to see a much larger push than the current half hidden paragraph that we saw in the 2019 RFL Annual Report.

Done, woops. This typing business is hard work and sometimes I can`t be bothered to even go up the top there and check the meaning of things. Give me a break, at least I was close spelling wise just not so close as far as the crow flies. Swear I heard Tony Robinson mention them on Time Team. Have to laugh though at the thought of you scratching your head and thinking `mmmm what could he possibly mean?`

You kidding, I appeared none the wiser. The only Manchurians that I can think of is the Gallagher bros. And they mumble. When Tag came along I thought it was a gimmick, similar to the way I predicted that the computer would never catch on. According to the TryTagRugby website there is only the purchase of the Tags and they will grip to any materials that shorts are made of. Surely then the cost can not be that high? Am I missing something? Yes agree that Touch is probably a little too easy, may be more suitable to certain demographics. Sure you can`t give a little on the fend? Would look spectacular when a centre makes a break, cover comes across, dives and is fended away by the sprinting no.4. You might change your mind after seeing Greg Inglis in action next year. That try of his in SOO where he palms the fullback off and then proceeds to half trample, half hurdle him would be one of the great tries of all time. I think at some point we need to take stock of where we are with this TTRL subject. I don`t think that many would dispute that LeagueTag on full sized field could be hit. My instincts tell me that could be a more appealing spectacle than even 9`s and certainly the twiz that 7`s is. I think because , like you said , its close resemblance to the real thing, aided by the extra numbers on the field. I was wondering whether that purists and even the RFL may see an attractive tackle free version as a threat to the tackle version. Personally, like cricket, you would like to think that the original version would remain the pinnacle. I saw that the Ready4Rugby has a two-metre rule. Can`t see that working either, two steps forward and the defence is level with the marker, may prove very hard to make ground.

Had another look at the 2019 report. Mentions: "Community RL, third year of consecutive growth. In terms of regular participation, we have achieved growth across the core market settings of Primary, Junior, Youth and Open." Elsewhere Wheelchair, Social RL- Tag and Touch and Masters all grew in 2019. You may well be right, the latter do not fall under the `Community RL` banner therefore not included in the 109k figure. Damn. Back to square one. Harrowgate, the gates of Harrow, it`s all in the `w`. Am familiar with Harrow. Reminds me of an episode of Frasier where Roz, Frazier`s man hungry producer is introduced to the English brother of Frasiers Housekeeper, Daphne named Simon who is one of the track suit pant wearing, beer swilling, `Here we go, here we go` Manchurian type and says `ooh don`t you love that English accent, so sophisticated, just like a Prince". I see Harro, I think Harrow, we just think you blokes are all real posh like, except you Pedant, your lack of breeding( a very English concept) is patently obvious everytime you open your mouth. If you want to have a laugh have a look at pg40 &41 of the 2019 RFL report on pg10 of the threads. Classic hamfisted RL attempt to find a photo to match corresponding article. What is that picture meant to suggest? I wonder if the kid involved knows.

I may have been waiting for someone. Before you start assuming things ,not you. In a single paragraph regards `Participation` the RFL 2019 report names all recognised existing forms of the code, Open age(M&F), juniors, wheel chair, touch and tag, masters in the 109k figure. The 109k figure is of course splashed across the page with references to `5% Growth` in true Orwellian fashion. This subsuming of Touch/Tag figures into the greater figure of course can be viewed two ways. One, they are using them to boost the headline figure of the more important category of Tackle. Or alternatively, they are embracing them as equals and including them as legitimate RL participants. We may have to give them the benefit of the doubt. The RL map that I posted I have been told consists mostly of teams. These are most likely to have neither the time nor the desire to run TTRL competitions. Just happy to train once a week and have a game on the weekend. And as I noted this may be why we have seen the TTR franchise system step into this void. To make a buck. And why they use the generic term `Rugby` to cast their net as wide as possible in their attempt to capture participants. Importantly TTR is affiliated and endorsed by the RFL and every player registered therefore included in RL participation figures. Maybe we would be happier if these figures were more clearly defined. I suppose for you and I it is the sight of all those union jerseys and tournaments like the one in Ireland with its seemed association with rugby(union) that galls. Hearteningly though where RL clubs of sufficient size exist anecdotal evidence suggests that they are embracing these alternative versions of the code. Coventry Bears ran a community fitness programme which can be viewed on pg8 of this forum. This could be the future of RL clubs. Community Lifestyle centres of which RL teams of the various forms are at their heart. Not dissimilar to the Leagues Club behemoths created in NSW, many worth 100`s of million of dollars who were originally founded to fund a RL team and now have grown to provide a myriad of services including gambling, restaurants, live entertainment, fitness, etc. etc. Of course everything you say in Paragraphs 5 & 6 is perfectly true and the idea of teams of either variety applauding each other team on to the field is the kind of idyllic scenario that we envisage at any sporting club. A little like FightingIrish`s hilarious description in the `Something Light Hearted Thread` of all the participating teams sticking around for the final of a tournament he played in. There are similar statistics with regards to serious knee injuries regarding Womens afl. I suppose really it may not be surprising given the physiological differences between men and women. For me UP the best way forward would be for the various governing bodies world wide would to be to get TTRL in the WC as soon as is logistically possible I look forward to the day when a full sized pitch 11/13 a team, with fend, and the dazzling Kayln Ponga`s and Ben Barbas can wow us with their skills in this version of the game, televised at a WC.

There is a lot of pins on that map. It would be interesting to know the details of some of the smaller clubs. Your second paragraph would probably be the best way forward and cut out the TryTagRugby altogether. The issue is whether these clubs have the manpower and resources to set up the alternative competitions. The lack of these resources may explain why the TryTagRugby franchise system has filled that gap in the market. As OriginalMrC and HarrowGate points out the TTR franchise system relies on player numbers for the Franchisee to turn a profit therefore are unlikely to limit itself to appealing itself to either particular code. Therefore the generic term `Rugby`. Despite us League fans feeling we should be able to claim the whole genre for ourselves because of its similarity with League not union. The highlighted and underlined sentence above of course the ideal situation. But as I said it would largely depend on the resources of the club to be able to participate. However optimistically it would seem from posters that progress is being made. From having gone over the 2019 Annual RFL Report it would appear that TTR players are included in RL participation numbers. And importantly there does seem to be some efforts to focus on the word ` League` for example the `Our League` platform . Rather than continually referring to Rugby League as `Rugby`. I think the RFL are learning from their southern hemisphere counterparts the value of product differentiation. The last thing I would say though is that I think that it would still be a wise move to include the abbreviated version of the game in the RLWC. Even if it only achieved in encouraging more people to take up that version of the game. We can cross other bridges later on.

O.k.

I`m running on empty U.P. so I`ll stick to the important bits. Would it be worth trying to keep the fend for the weekend or what we might be called the League Tag version? Or even from shoulders down for long and short versions. Soon as I hear you mention `benefit of the doubt ` my mind casts straight back to that forward pass bun fight. Like so many decisions for the ref it has to rely on their discretion and they must be encouraged not to be too pedantic, dare I say it. So touch has got refs discretion on both `touch` and `pass`, it just gets worse. Double Damned. I put some maps up, go back a couple of posts you`ll see, and I revived the old thread associated with them , some very interesting comments and I really like the geographical spread. There is a couple of names in there who could be interesting contacts, James Gordon from LoveRugbyLeague and I think HarrowGate mentions an Ashleigh Seddon `RFL Inclusion Officer. Wouldn`t be hard to contact these two perhaps to have some questions answered. No bluff, sorry to disappoint, bit of flamboyance but only on the tennis court. So protective of Kylie.

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1H47oVcXtv9Zc6AKjv7QNiy18hnKDUF7_&ll=53.6436840655632%2C-1.7645566499999896&z=6 https://www.loverugbyleague.com/post/map-of-every-rugby-league-club-in-the-uk/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=map-of-every-rugby-league-club-in-the-uk I got these up from a thread that was running a couple of months ago. It`s called ` Map of every Rugby League Club ` worth a read.

I was close, it has been a while. Wouldn`t have been David Bowie anyway, with my New York reference I was probably thinking David Byrne. I have used in the past a reference to his (i.e. Talking Heads) song `Heaven` as being a good theme song for the union(the game they play in heaven apparently), and its line `Heaven is a place, where nothing ever happens`, however I think the song is a little too obscure for most people to get the dig, especially the union buffoons it was aimed at. I am not really in the mood for the funnys today, but can not help myself telling you how I loved it when someone asked Byrne " why do you wear those large suits " and he replied " to make my head look smaller ". Stop making sense. Not a fan of Nick Cave, when I`m in those moods you can`t go past Joy Division. I am not a religious person U.P. but maybe if there is a heaven, young Joel Dark will be up there and he will tear them apart, they will probably play him in the centres though, bloody hopeless.

Just quickly, about `85 or `86, mate of mine bought a group of us tickets to see Dire Straits at the Sydney Entertainment Centre in the city, all well and good, it was a good concert and can`t complain(bloody expensive though), anyway we left there probably about 11p.m and went up to the Old Tivoli (free entry, more my style) , went upstairs and blow me down Charlie the Go Betweens came on. Let`s put it this way, the next day I bought said album, vinyl in those days, still got it, just no record player. Two things , never owned a Dire Straits record in my life, having said that they were good and had some great hits and secondly, when The Go Betweens came out for the encore, David Foster was wearing a very elegant evening dress, no one batted an eye and they played for about another 40 minutes. Real eye opener for this country boy. The `Triffids` were a Western Australian band of the same era with a similar sound, they had an album `Born Sandy Devotional` with a song called `Wide Open Road`, I thought capturing similar sentiments. The Sydney music scene of the 80`s, I have heard it compared in terms of vibrancy with New York a decade before, played a large part in my academic downfall and eventual expulsion from university. Banned again. So much for `just quickly.` Edit, Since I sent the above post have found out that young Joel Dark passed away last night. Complete stranger to you blokes I know, I hope I haven`t been a pain in the a__e burdening you with it.

I agree ` League Tag `name sounds good, it is short, to the point and punchy. And of course you can then add either Mens or womens in front. Played on the full size pitch would really show case the athleticism of those involved and I think you need the full size pitch if it is going to be played at a WC, otherwise it runs the risk of potentially looking like pre match entertainment. There is nothing like one player running flat out being pursued by another running flat out that a full length pitch provides, that really gets a crowd on its feet. A shorter field is often just a dash to the line. It has to be taken seriously at this level. And it should be if we are talking about the best from every country that has qualified. I really like the idea with League Tag that we keep all the elements that make RL, the lot, bar the tackle. An added bonus is that we can keep the ` fend `, now whether it would have to be kept to the all parts of the body bar the head I am not sure, personally a palm directly on to the nose as someone is reaching for your Tag would ad that bit of physicality that could give the whole thing more cred. I always thought that a broken nose is a badge of honour in ex-Leagies. Don`t know though how attractive I would find a chick with a broken nose though. The ladies probably feel the same way. LOL. I really feel like we are on to something with this version of the game, it would be such a great advert for the full tackle version and the code in general. Countries sending players from non league nations will get serious League exposure. Something that may expand the game back home. One other quick point, my impression always was that Tag was developed because there was too many disputes in touch over whether some one was `touched` or not, you know what I mean, `I got you!` `no you didn`t` `Yes I did` etc. I can remember people in each others faces over this, and the higher the stakes the more the disputes. I am happy to report that the `Ready4Rugby` has not eliminated the touch, in order to rid itself of the play the ball and maintain continuity while distancing itself from league they have `play on ` after the first touch. Stop, and a sort of bizarre throw the ball in the air to yourself and compulsory pass after the second touch. It is called a phase and you get two of them before a compulsory handover, dangerously close to a set. And as long as there is `touch` in involved there will always be trouble. MrOriginalC`s concerns may be allayed perhaps if the alternative, like union is slightly ridiculous, and if union fans want to play something for fun or fitness on a week night a TTRL sport , like they are now doing anyway may be their best option, may be too if the League thing is not overdone in areas where there may be sensitivities. The only small concern of course with Tag is the cost of the Tag gear itself, I don`t think it would be exorbitant , you could put advertising on those Tags anyway. I will leave it there for the moment even though I haven`t addressed the point about what name to consider for a shortened version. But this an extremely long post any way and don`t want to overdo it. Will speak soon.

Let us know how it goes.

You are a cheeky ######, nice juxtaposition. Yes, and tomorrow we will wrap this TTRL thread up. I think all we now is to decide what version of TTRL would be best for a World Cup. I like the Ladies Tag League you described, but we would need to think of a better name and then be able to refer to it as Womens and Mens. I think I can safely assume you are familiar with `Clancy of The Overflow`, there are some very beautiful images and sentiments described in that poem. Someone on here asked what is exactly the Australian Bush and that poem sprang to mind. Better than the Jolly Swagman. I`m done.

Now SP, you have become just one big barrel of laughs lately. Ever since that stoush with Dunbar, do not let these pommies get under your skin mate. They are different to us, genetically of course we are all identical, we can trace our family back to 1350 in Suffolk, but something happens when you leave the place, you can hear it in the optimism in a lot of the Canadian posters. And everyone knows the Brits can`t stand that gushing enthusiasm of the Yanks. But of course there is something special about that little island and its people. `This Royal throne of Kings, this sceptred isle/.....this other Eden/........this little world/ this precious stone set in the silver sea.` Sorry mate, I should never post over here after 10.

You have got me stumped , there is not a link with` I come from a land down under ` that I do not know about. And by the way I deliberately misquoted Mr. Bennet, I was trying to make it sound a little more contemporary. Not everyone has your grasp of the language U.P.

I had written him a letter, for the want of, knowledge better,

He`s a poet, and he doesn`t know it.

I did not post last night Pedant because it all seemed a bit frivolous given what is going on, however I know that being morbid is not going to help. I did spend my evening doing a little bit of Google searching and found out a couple of things that may be of interest. The TryTagRugby site, yes they should change their name immediately and the fact that I refer to it as TTRL has been more an instinctual thing for me. Similar to the reaction of the Australian TryTag rugby teams you mentioned in a previous post, here the word rugby has completely different connotations. Getting back to what I was saying, the TryTag Rugby sites does have listed as its major partners the RFL and the International Tag Football Federation, ITFF, with a direct link to their home pages and vice versa. The ITFF has a picture of Bill Harrigan, although it does not say what he does, and also mentions Jeff Hardy, ex St. George and Illawarra Steeler. I suggest at least the NRL are running the show or at least up to their necks in it. Good news. Like you noted their previous three WCs in the southern hemisphere do not mention the word `rugby` in their title, however neither is League. Tag WC, OzTag WC & Tag Football WC. Not such an issue down here where League is entrenched, but unlike Ireland where TTRL WC would have more impact. Anyway now what I hope is some good news. When I searched the RFU and the England Rugby websites I could find no link to or mention of TTRL competitions. Instead I found a promotion for `Ready4Rugby` apparently a union alternative. Featuring a half hearted endorsement by League loving Eddie Jones. Have they abandoned the battlefield ? The troops may still be there but the generals have fled. My God this would seem like a major victory for Rugby League. It is imperative we must strike. The insertion of that key word at a time of such vulnerability could penetrate like a lance and perhaps be that small victory that signifies a changing of fortunes. The inclusion then in our World Cup would ram home the advantage. It seems like good news to me , the field lies open, we must advance.

It could work, my first thoughts were they wouldn`t touch it with a barge pole because of the strong union links that a lot of the teams would have, but when, as above, you consider it from a players perspective, the opportunity to play in a real WC, not a Tag/Touch WC, but one with real meat on its bones, culminating in a final potentially played at somewhere like Old Trafford. As you say "eye teeth". And if, like you said, we treated those TTR organisations with respect, i.e. equals, by having the RLIF offer them a formal invitation to compete in our WC. They could have a revolt on their hands if they said no. Either way the inclusion of TTRL in our WC would certainly make a lot of players of those versions of the sport sit up and maybe even start to lobby their admin bodies about why can`t we be part of that next time. So many exciting possibilities Irish, sometimes it seems like we just need someone to grab our sport by the scruff of the neck to really realise its full potential.

But do we even need them or their imprimatur? I agree we need to keep the names so that the comparison is continually made with any union rival and to remind all who`s game they are playing, or do we? I worry that creating some new name may end up sounding like and being viewed as some funny little offshoot . Again.

I think that is why we would have to go for the killer blow and put in the WC. WheelChair Cup Final, followed by the Final of the Men`s and Womens TTRL , and then of course the Mens and Womens Rugby League Cup Finals. The union can`t do that, surely a game simulating League in their big tournament would be a bridge too far, they can not offer it that prestige. Any way you live there, I do not, probably too much sun down here, you lose perspective.

You have made this assertion elsewhere with equal force and it is one that I have certainly agreed with for quite a while myself. Yet it seems often to be the dirty little secret that no true League loyalist would ever utter in public or even admit to. Yet in this era of declining birthrates, the consequent smaller families and the resultant over protective parenting as anxious mums and dads protect their diminished broods it is no wonder that parents are directing their only son or daughter into perceived less physical past times.( Chad Townsend is not helping things however). I witnessed a boy form an aspirational local family recently be made to wear headgear and a mouth guard while playing soccer. Poor kid, thank goodness he threw them away after about 20 minutes. Not much chance of him playing League though without full body armour. But getting back to your original point, your point is an astute one. And echoes a similar response that I was formulating for articchris, in regards his observation re: Kalyn Ponga and Shaun Johnson. My thought was that if there were sufficient numbers in TTRL then it would be very likely League talent scouts or even just local league coaches or their associates would be keeping a close eye on the talent in those formats . Ready to tap some kid on the shoulder and say "you interested in coming over and having a run with the u16`s". One of my proudest moments in sport was when our primary school rep team was short and the coach came to my year 5 class and in front of the class said Rocket " do you think you can play fullback for us this arvo ?". I dropped everything and walked out of that room feeling like the real Rocket. The story I heard regards Brian Fletcher ,Roosters, NSW and OZ star was similar, happy just playing `park` footy with his mates, spotted by a talent scout, convinced to give it a go and the rest is history. Yes , I think you are right It could be another way of easing people into the game.